about lobster

rmwilliamsll · Aug 9, 2005

there is a nice article about lobster at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/09/science/09lobs.html?8hpib

read it carefully.
look at:

Today, scientists believe that most females reproduce once, if that, and it is rare to catch a lobster that weighs more than three pounds. The result is they seem to be maturing younger, and smaller.

But scientists do not know precisely how long it takes lobsters to reach the reproductive age. Estimates range from five to nine years, with lobsters in the colder north seemingly taking longer and growing slightly larger in the process. As yet, there is no reliable way to tell the age of a lobster.

science knows very little about the topic.
yet people have been lobstering for several hundred years in these waters

and about motivations, something several of the threads recently have been about

In both the Gulf of Maine and farther south, fishermen have joined an effort to protect lobster stocks by cutting V-shaped notches into the tails of female lobsters. It is illegal to take a notched lobster and, in theory, this will allow more of them to survive to reproduce. "This one would be on someone's dinner plate," Amanda Wright, who crews for Mr. Ingram on the Blue Moon, said recently as she used a puncher to remove a portion of a lobster's tail, before tossing it into the water.

Mr. Ingram said the widespread cooperation with the notching effort is evidence of the lobstermen's conservation ethic. "We don't want to catch the last lobster, that's for sure," he said.

motivations are important, in science as well as lobstering.

yet underneath the whole article is an implied evolutionary viewpoint.

the point of this posting is that evolution really does effect what we read and understand about the world. That motivations are important, but that the most significant thing is that the scientific world view, to analyze and study the world is the best hope to further everyones' goals.

.....

Micaiah · Aug 10, 2005

They're crayfish, not lobster.

LewisWildermuth · Aug 10, 2005

Micaiah said:
They're crayfish, not lobster.

Huh? They seem to be lobster to me... Unless crayfish and lobster have a different meaning there.

gluadys · Aug 11, 2005

Micaiah said:
They're crayfish, not lobster.

I don't have access to the article. But the principle is the same in either case. This conservation technique is built on the assumption of evolution.

Micaiah · Aug 11, 2005

yet underneath the whole article is an implied evolutionary viewpoint.

the point of this posting is that evolution really does effect what we read and understand about the world. That motivations are important, but that the most significant thing is that the scientific world view, to analyze and study the world is the best hope to further everyones' goals.

Still a crayfish, if perhaps a smaller one!

Crusadar · Aug 11, 2005

to analyze and study the world is the best hope to further everyones' goals.

What about Jesus, prayer and the gospel? After all it is the command of Christ to spread the good news of Salvation, not one's own personal endeavors.

Crusadar · Aug 11, 2005

This conservation technique is built on the assumption of evolution.

That's crud, survival of the fittest comes to mind in this instance so what's the problem with a species extinction. But since man was created and put as stewards over God's creation he would not be doing a good job now would he if extinction was by his hands (or in this case - mouth).

rmwilliamsll · Aug 11, 2005

Crusadar said:
to analyze and study the world is the best hope to further everyones' goals.

What about Jesus, prayer and the gospel? After all it is the command of Christ to spread the good news of Salvation, not one's own personal endeavors.

i don't think that Jesus, prayer and the Gospel are the best way to preserve lobsters. That's the point of the link to the essay, science works in the natural world. What i am interested in seeing is that the Gospel works as a worldview, the structure that controls and uses science in the right way. The problem with YECists is that they seem to want to 'push" the Gospel down into science and make it applicable to studying lobsters (or the age of the earth, or how we got a GLO pseudogene etc) when doing so makes things break.

.....

Crusadar · Aug 11, 2005

i don't think that Jesus, prayer and the Gospel are the best way to preserve lobsters..... The problem with YECists is that they seem to want to 'push" the Gospel down into science and make it applicable to studying lobsters...

You've missed my point entirely, saving lobsters is not gonna matter when souls are lost. Who really cares about lobsters when there only purpose is food for man. And yes it is only TEs who are correct - creationists are all liars and really just pushing their own agenda please. I wonder just how much the spreading of the lies of evolution has contributed to the conversion of non believers?

My suggestion, instead of simply sitting behind the comfort and safety of your computer and continue to denounce creationism why not go out in the real world and do something about it!

gluadys · Aug 11, 2005

Crusadar said:
so what's the problem with a species extinction.

I assume it would cause a lot of unemployment, as the closing of the cod fishery has in Atlantic Canada.

gluadys · Aug 11, 2005

Crusadar said:
My suggestion, instead of simply sitting behind the comfort and safety of your computer and continue to denounce creationism why not go out in the real world and do something about it!

We all have (I hope) a life away from this board. Why do you assume TEs are not out in the real world doing something about it? Most of the people I know who are passionate about ministry are TEs. Debates about evolution are not the focal point of their lives.

Crusadar · Aug 11, 2005

Who is talking about debates? Why not just have conferences on TE, lectures and live forums using theistic evolution to witness to the unbeliever about an almighty creator who loves them and cares about them? TEs cry the loudest about creationist misusing science to witness the Gospel and yet they do nothing more than whine.

LewisWildermuth · Aug 11, 2005

Crusadar said:
Who is talking about debates? Why not just have conferences on TE, lectures and live forums using theistic evolution to witness to the unbeliever about an almighty creator who loves them and cares about them? TEs cry the loudest about creationist misusing science to witness the Gospel and yet they do nothing more than whine.

Because evolution is no more a part of our faith than are our cars starting or gravity working, it is just something that is. There is no great revelation about evolution working that would impress an atheist. They would just look at you and say "Well Duh."

We cry about misusing science to prove creationism just as we would cry about science being used to prove a racists agenda. Both are abusing science and both are lies at heart. One should never use lies to try and convert someone to a God of truth.

Being a TE it is often easier to talk with atheists because we do not try and push ideas that they can easily see are false at them. It removes a stumbling block between them and coming to see that there is a loving God.

Floodnut · Aug 11, 2005

A nice warm water lobster tail can be split along the top of the shell with a pair of kitchen shears. Then use a sharp knife to cut through the length of the tail, down to the rib-like part of the lower side of the shell. Fold it open, in a heart-shape.

Squeeze the juice of a half a lemon on the meat and let it sit for about 30 minutes. Then smear butter on it and put it MEAT DOWN on a HOT GRILL for two minutes. Turn it over and re-apply BUTTER. Turn heat down on the grill to Medium, and close the lid for 10-12 minutes.

NOW THAT THERE IS what God ordained for Lobsters, at least for those who are not under Kosher Laws.

notto · Aug 11, 2005

Floodnut said:
NOW THAT THERE IS what God ordained for Lobsters, at least for those who are not under Kosher Laws.

Sure, you say that now.

http://omp.gso.uri.edu/doee/teacher/crft5.htm

Lobsters used to be much more plentiful in Narragansett Bay. Colonists and Native Americans could pick them up along the shore during low tides. They were used as fertilizer for the fields and as cheap food for prisoners and charity cases. It was considered cruel and unusual punishment to feed lobster to a prisoner or poor house inmate more than three times a week.

notto · Aug 11, 2005

Crusadar said:
Who is talking about debates? Why not just have conferences on TE, lectures and live forums using theistic evolution to witness to the unbeliever about an almighty creator who loves them and cares about them? TEs cry the loudest about creationist misusing science to witness the Gospel and yet they do nothing more than whine.

You seem to be suggesting that TE's don't lead witnessing or participate in telling people about an almighty creator who loves them and cares about them. You couldn't be further from the truth.

Since TE's dont' consider the things talked about at creation conferences as salvation issues (or even scientific ones for the most part) they spend their time talking about other things when they witness.

A conference on TE covering the same topics as a creationist conference would basically be 'read a science book'. Not much to say that the general audience hasn't already been taught in a good school or college.

Crusadar · Aug 12, 2005

Because evolution is no more a part of our faith than are our cars starting or gravity working, it is just something that is. There is no great revelation about evolution working that would impress an atheist. They would just look at you and say "Well Duh."

"Well Duh" isn't that what creationists have been telling you all along - that evolution is has no part in our faith? If it were told to atheists that an all powerful and all knowing God used evolution it would beckon the question of his morality and competency. After all what sort of god uses an 99.9%extinction rate as part of his creative process and calls it very good! Not the God of Christianity, says I. TEs however have this wonderful dance that they perform around this dilema that is always entertaining to watch - so go ahead and start dancing.

Crusadar · Aug 12, 2005

We cry about misusing science to prove creationism just as we would cry about science being used to prove a racists agenda. Both are abusing science and both are lies at heart. One should never use lies to try and convert someone to a God of truth.

You cry because you can do nothing otherwise - because rather than stand up for the word of God, you whimp out and take the side of the unbeliever. Such may be harsh words, but very true. To believe that creationists are, at heart, lying in order to get converts is nothing more than the biggest lie itself. If it were lies at heart don't you think an all powerful God would have ensured that it did not say so in His booK? If anyone is at fault it would be God, for not showing us only one way to interpret His very word.

Micaiah · Aug 12, 2005

Lobsters used to be much more plentiful in Narragansett Bay. Colonists and Native Americans could pick them up along the shore during low tides. They were used as fertilizer for the fields and as cheap food for prisoners and charity cases. It was considered cruel and unusual punishment to feed lobster to a prisoner or poor house inmate more than three times a week.

I can feel a song coming on ....

Where have all the lobsters gone
Long time passing
Where have all the lobsters gone
Long time ago
Where have all the lobsters gone
Evolved into flowers every one
When will they ever learn
When will they ever learn

Crusadar · Aug 12, 2005

You seem to be suggesting that TE's don't lead witnessing or participate in telling people about an almighty creator who loves them and cares about them. You couldn't be further from the truth.

Well now, what is the Truth? Do evolutionists actually say anything about creation and the creative process of the creator that is actually written in scripture and how this relates to the need for salvation by the heathen? Or do they go off on a tangent, denounce the plain reading of scripture and then attempt to justify scripture (doing this of course all outside of what it actually says). And please don't do the typical dance that TEs do.

Since TE's dont' consider the things talked about at creation conferences as salvation issues (or even scientific ones for the most part) they spend their time talking about other things when they witness.

Really, to say that God is sole creator as his Word says is not important? After all to establish a foundation for believing in God is what I would consider more important than just saying trust Jesus. After all who is Jesus to an unbeliever and why does anyone need Him if He was not the sole creator who is responsible for bringing them into being? Simply having Jesus become just another option without a foundation, as most usually do, is basically the same as not witnessing at all.

A conference on TE covering the same topics as a creationist conference would basically be 'read a science book'. Not much to say that the general audience hasn't already been taught in a good school or college.

Perhaps that may be the problem, you're not seeing what my point was. That was how does the physical world intermingle with the spiritual world? How does what we know relate to our spirtual life. If something is materially true then would it not also be correlatively true metaphysically? If they are contradictory then its obvious there is something wrong. The inability to distinguish this contradiction simply proves that once successfully brainwashed, it's hard to undo. Rather than take the hard route of knocking out the wrong foundation TE's just wimp out and accept it without challenge.

about lobster

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