About evil spirits in 1 Samule

[ywl]

1 Samuel 18:10
The next day an evil spirit from God came forcefully on Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the lyre, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand

1 Samuel 19:9
But an evil spirit from the LORD came on Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the lyre,

I thought God will not harm people but why was evil spirit from God and came on Saul?

 

[Crosssword]

Yet another of those subtle adult points unlike my childish understanding that God is pure righteousness that corresponds with pure ideals of love and virtue.

Isaiah 45 says God is the author of peace and evil; he makes all these things.

All the more reason to fear him. The old testament presents God as being responsible for everything.

The new testament presents satan as being the lord of this world and thereby kinda makes it seem like God is mostly sitting back and adopting a non-interference position while we go about our ways in this world.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

The point you both are missing is that Saul brought this on himself.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

I thought God will not harm people

What ever made you think that? God is holy and evil humanity must be judged by His holiness, He has done it in the past and He will do it again, this is what makes His mercy and grace in Jesus Christ so precious...We can escape the wrath to come through Jesus Christ.

 

[Crosssword]

Indeed, the world perceives God as pure unconditional love these days. That just isn't true. I know he is more then "the source", he is the living God and I am glad to have known him at all. Indeed Saul did bring it upon himself, for being an unrighteous king and for consorting with mediums and familiar spirits. I am guilty of the latter, and know they only seek to destroy you. Blessed is he that fears the lord and seeks out righteousness.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

Also Crossword what you need to realize is that although God allowed these things to happen to Saul, God's heart was always that these things would make him repent from his evil ways, sadly Saul, to our knowledge, never did.

 

[Tim Myers]

Why do you think God had anything to do with it??.....

 

[Crosssword]

Excellent point, soldier. If I were Saul hearing of my death and seeing that God was no longer with me, I would have given David the throne, stepped down, and repented. (Assuming this was possible.) Then again, I'm not a man of pride, or face, or a respecter of persons.

Why do you think God had anything to do with it??.....

Or maybe he had everything to do with it.

 

[ywl]

What ever made you think that? God is holy and evil humanity must be judged by His holiness, He has done it in the past and He will do it again, this is what makes His mercy and grace in Jesus Christ so precious...We can escape the wrath to come through Jesus Christ.

Thank you all for the replies. I assume "evil spirit from God" in 1 Samuel 16-19 means firstly God is the source or home of the evil spirit, secondly God send them to Saul. But if God send evil spirit to Saul, it sounds like God made Saul more evil. I agree that Saul sinned first. God did this to let Saul repent. Evil spirit from God just made Saul's sin visible. Maybe it is not the kind of evil that Satan did.

In my understanding, there is a hierarchy between God, angles and all kinds of spirits. God is obviously the most powerful, angles are less powerful and spirits are weakest. Evil spirits is the servant of God, they will do as is directed by God to achieve God's purpose. Since evil spirit is has the ability to make people evil momentarily but is weak compared with Satan, they can also be used by Satan, though maybe unwillingly, to harm people.

So we cannot say evil spirits themselves themselves are evil or not evil. If they serve the God, they are "evil" for good purposes, so they are good; if they serve Satan, they are evil in deed.

It is like snake's venom is deadly when injected to people from snakes. But the venom can also be a good medicine if used properly.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

Thank you all for the replies. I assume "evil spirit from God" in 1 Samuel 16-19 means firstly God is the source or home of the evil spirit,

No, God is holy:

"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5)

Evil spirits are fallen beings who were once angels but rebelled (using there free will) to turn against God and His creation. The bible speaks of a third of heavens hosts falling from heaven with satan, the bible says that there was a rebellion in the heavenly realms, we do not know exactly all that this entails but what we do know is that God is opposed to these rebellious forces and will one day put a permanent end to it. Actually, Jesus said that His purpose in coming to the earth was to destroy the works of the devil.

What this passage in 1 Samuel seems to imply is that God allowed a evil spirit to access and torment Saul. There is no reason to think that this evil spirit originated from God Himself, but what is implied is that the spirit is a sort of agent of God (even if an unwilling one). Saul was being punished for his sin and God was trying a last resort to get him to turn from his evil ways by giving him over to demonic torment (up to this point God was protecting him from this). Paul also mentions something similar in the New Testament concerning a disobedient believer:


"to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." (1 Cor. 5:5)

The point is: God is God and He is sovereign over all and if He so chooses He can use a demonic being to accomplish or bring about a purpose that He desires for the ultimate good that He alone foresees. But one thing that is unthinkable and should not even be considered is that somehow evil originates from our God.

 

[ywl]

Thank you for reply. After a bit googling, I found that many people have asked such a question, and therefore several explanations are available to this question. People do spend some time on this problem. There are two links I think give satisfying answers. I think you are right and give the right idea. Thank you. Please check these two pages, if they are not very satisfactory for you, we can discuss more.

w w w.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=6&article=1278
w w w.learnthebible.org/an-evil-spirit-from-the-lord.html

please remove the space between the 'w's.

No, God is holy:

"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5)

Evil spirits are fallen beings who were once angels but rebelled (using there free will) to turn against God and His creation. The bible speaks of a third of heavens hosts falling from heaven with satan, the bible says that there was a rebellion in the heavenly realms, we do not know exactly all that this entails but what we do know is that God is opposed to these rebellious forces and will one day put a permanent end to it. Actually, Jesus said that His purpose in coming to the earth was to destroy the works of the devil.

What this passage in 1 Samuel seems to imply is that God allowed a evil spirit to access and torment Saul. There is no reason to think that this evil spirit originated from God Himself, but what is implied is that the spirit is a sort of agent of God (even if an unwilling one). Saul was being punished for his sin and God was trying a last resort to get him to turn from his evil ways by giving him over to demonic torment (up to this point God was protecting him from this). Paul also mentions something similar in the New Testament concerning a disobedient believer:


"to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." (1 Cor. 5:5)

The point is: God is God and He is sovereign over all and if He so chooses He can use a demonic being to accomplish or bring about a purpose that He desires for the ultimate good that He alone foresees. But one thing that is unthinkable and should not even be considered is that somehow evil originates from our God.

 

[winslow]

.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

I believe your right winslow: Saul was given up, he was reprobate to his sin. I know the Lord still desired his repentance but at this point in his life it may have been too late for him, only God knows these things though.

 

[heron]

From ywl's links above:

"A third consideration regarding the “evil spirit” that came upon Saul is the fact that the term “spirit” (ruach) has a wide range of meanings: air (i.e., breath or wind); the vital principle of life or animating force; the rational mind where thinking and decision-making occurs; the Holy Spirit of God (Gesenius, 1847, pp. 760-761), and even disposition of mind or attitude (Harris, et al., 1980, 2:836). Likewise, the word translated “evil” ([SIZE=-1]KJV[/SIZE]), “distressing” ([SIZE=-1]NKJV[/SIZE]), or “injurious” ([SIZE=-1]NIV[/SIZE] margin) is a word (ra‘a) that can mean “bad,” “unhappy,” or “sad of heart or mind” (Gesenius, p. 772). It can refer to “a variety of negative attitudes common to wicked people, and be extended to include the consequences of that kind of lifestyle” (Harris, et al., 2:856)."

Also, when you read the broad world history of personal interactions with spirits, many people welcomed spirits before finding they were detrimental. There seems to be a strong personality in spirits and mix of motives... unpredictability that is self-driven. We like to talk about them in extremes of evil and good, but it was probably something Saul had relished having around in the past, like people enjoy being angry or moody.

Even if God had sent it, a recipient could have chosen to drive it away.

 

[vespasia]

Unless Saul truly had bi-polar and David provided the music theraphy of his day.

Saul has some impressive mood swings just as those who have mood disorders today do but it would only have been understood in the context of the time as sometimes Gods spirit was there when Saul was able to be a good man sometimes another when Saul would be at the mercy of his moods and because he was an absolute monarch- so was everyone else.