Abortion

Joshua S said:

I realize this now. Thanks for the clarification. I am highly against Abortion myself but lost myself to a website that literally stated God was pro-abortion. People use the internet to attempt to convert people to evil and it's sad.

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Here is a trusted resource for you: Abortion

Joshua S said:

I think I've been misled this whole time. Currently New Zealand is debating whether Abortion should be less strict than it currently is. Now, I always said Abortion should never happen as I thought that my personal opinion aligned with God. However, I just read something regarding Abortion (I've never read the Bible although I should) on a website and apparently Anti-Abortion is a Zealot Following. Are Zealots Christians? I know they believe in a God but I'm not sure if they're followers of Jesus Christ or if they follow the Bible.

I also heard that God wasn't entirely pro-life and the website I looked at used Bible Quotes and used references to when pregnant women were killed, etc.

So, my debate is around Abortion. Is Abortion really bad?

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I was debating on another website and the topic of abortion came up so I did some investigation. I was shocked in what I found.
According to WHO, every year in the world there are an estimated 40-50 million abortions. This corresponds to approximately 125,000 abortions per day.
Abortion Statistics - Worldometers

I mean that is horrifying to say the least even if you are pro-choice. Just to get to a point in a persons life where they decide to have such a procedure would be hard. But it seems that abortion is becoming as common as having your blood pressure taken. Is this a sign of modern life and how little we respect and regard relationships and having sex today like abortion is a form of contraception.

I listen to a video from Allie Stuckey about how things have changed now that science can help us better understand what happens during pregnancy. Like everything we are getting to know how things work better. But years ago when we knew less pro-abortionists used ignorance as a reason for supporting women having abortions but still were cautious. Pro-abortionist motto for abortion was safe, legal and rare.

Now they have abandoned these three qualifications for on demand abortion right through the whole 9 months of pregnancy for any reason. As pro-abortionist ideas have radicalized science has advanced. We now know that a babies heart begins to beat at 6 weeks, a child can feel pain as early as 20 weeks and babies can survive outside the womb at 21 weeks. Embryologist tell us that from the moment of conception a baby is a living human being with distinct DNA.

Yet as this comes to light abortion supporters are doubling down and many of these supporters turn to the science so often in other areas deny it and refer to a fetus as a clump of cells. Abortion advocates want to obscure the life inside the mothers body by using euphemism like reproductive freedom, bodily autonomy or women's empowerment.

If abortion was a winning issue and as an article in a New York magazine said abortion is a moral good then pro-abortionists would not have to use these terms of deception. But abortion advocates know that using accurate terminology to describe abortion makes for ineffective PR and therefore doesn't make for a profitable business model.

Recently in Australia a Bill was rushed through Parliament that allowed late term abortions (that's like a near full term baby) and if the baby survives the doctors are to just leave the baby to die on the operating table. Recent research has reveals that around 10% of all abortions the baby survives and if left to die. The figure is even greater in the US.

This is shocking. What sort of society are we becoming being so callous and monstrous. The majority of abortions are done for convenience and not for medical reasons. There is no longer any logical argument for abortion and those pretending to say it is OK are denying the truth. Abortion is the killing of innocent children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jzPilnA25w

stevevw said:

...it seems that abortion is becoming as common as having your blood pressure taken.

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Except abortion rates are on the decline so it’s getting less rather than more common.

Desk trauma said:

Except abortion rates are on the decline so it’s getting less rather than more common.

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Are you saying it was even worse that the current figures. Anyway thank God it is declining. Maybe there's hope for these little ones after-all.

Joshua S said:

I think I've been misled this whole time. Currently New Zealand is debating whether Abortion should be less strict than it currently is. Now, I always said Abortion should never happen as I thought that my personal opinion aligned with God. However, I just read something regarding Abortion (I've never read the Bible although I should) on a website and apparently Anti-Abortion is a Zealot Following. Are Zealots Christians? I know they believe in a God but I'm not sure if they're followers of Jesus Christ or if they follow the Bible.

I also heard that God wasn't entirely pro-life and the website I looked at used Bible Quotes and used references to when pregnant women were killed, etc.

So, my debate is around Abortion. Is Abortion really bad?

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God ABHORS the shedding of innocent blood. It is written in the seven abominations that God hates.

This video is about the shedding of innocent blood, which includes briefly the innocent blood of babies at their most tiniest and helpless.

Delve into the Bible, brother. God will bless you as you do, for it delights His very heart and soul when we do.

May He bless you and grant you extraordinary favor, brother.

Joshua S said:

I've never read the Bible although I should

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Of course you haven’t.

smh

stevevw said:

Are you saying it was even worse that the current figures.

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I’m saying that the rate of abortions is declining, in the US it’s near record lows, and your assertion that it’s becoming more common is untrue.

Anyway thank God it is declining.

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Unless you define god as better contraception and education that’s a misappropriation of thanks.

Joshua S said:

I know I should read the Bible but I seem to avoid it quite a lot. I'm not great at reading paper versions of books. I should probably see if I can find one online.

As for the top 5 worst sins, where exactly did you get that information? I've never heard of Christianity having a 'top 5 worst sins', I've heard of the 10 Commandments and I've heard of the unforgivable sin as well as the seven deadly sins but I've never heard of the 'top 5 worst sins'.

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It's seven abominations that God mentions specifically that He abhors (hates).

"These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren." ~Proverbs 6:16-19

brinny said:

God ABHORS the shedding of innocent blood.

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To be fair he was quite keen to see the little ones in Babylon killed.

brinny said: ↑
God ABHORS the shedding of innocent blood.

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Larnievc said:

To be fair he was quite keen to see the little ones in Babylon killed.

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It was "judgment".

This will be my last response to you, no offense Larnie, but i'm not going to debate what would require a Bible study to discuss. I'm here in this thread to respond to the OP and some very valid questions he posted.

Nevertheless, peace to you and your wunnerful kitties.

Is there?

In both cases the principle is the same - it's better, overall, if certain people die.

At best you're arguing that some are better at judging when this is than others.

Lobster Johnson said:

Is there?

In both cases the principle is the same - it's better, overall, if certain people die.

At best you're arguing that some are better at judging when this is than others.

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The principle is the same? Are you being absurd on purpose?

There is a stark difference between the Creator of the Universe, the one who literally owns you (read Job) declaring judgment and you, a finite being deciding it’s acceptable to kill an innocent human being who has done no wrong.

Mountainmanbob said:

Having God decide that a little baby will not be here is a lot different then you deciding if a little baby will be here or not.
M-Bob

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No...there really isn’t.

Desk trauma said:

Unless you define god as better contraception and education that’s a misappropriation of thanks.

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Mega dittoes. It floors me that many of the same people who believe abortion is sinful, also believe that proven effective means of making abortion unnecessary are sinful, too. I cannot comprehend the mindset that elevates religious dogma over objective thinking and common sense.

Abortion simply for the sake of convenience is child sacrifice to the "god" of sexual pleasure.

Any Christian who supports abortion for any reason other than the verifiable risk of death to the mother from birth should examine their faith. Do they really trust in God? If they believe that following the will of God is the way to have an abundant life, they would not support anything as vile as murder of the innocent which is actually the sacrificing of children to pleasure of sex.

On the other hand, having faith in Jesus includes having faith that He will make "mistakes" right if we sincerely follow his will. That is the better way.

HatedByAll said:

Abortion simply for the sake of convenience is child sacrifice to the "god" of sexual pleasure.

Any Christian who supports abortion for any reason other than the verifiable risk of death to the mother from birth should examine their faith. Do they really trust in God? If they believe that following the will of God is the way to have an abundant life, they would not support anything as vile as murder of the innocent which is actually the sacrificing of children to pleasure of sex.

On the other hand, having faith in Jesus includes having faith that He will make "mistakes" right if we sincerely follow his will. That is the better way.

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Your logic makes no sense. On the one hand, you concede that abortions are ok if the risk to the mother’s life is a factor.

But then you claim that “faith” sincerely held will fix any “mistakes”.

Those two ideas are contradictory...

ewq1938 said:

No, I am saying people are wrong when they kill children but God is right when he makes that decision.

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What makes it right for God but wrong for the woman? Whatever their respective motivations, the baby's just as dead either way.

How do you know that any particular abortion doesn't line up with God's decision anyway? There's plenty that happen on their own - maybe God appreciates some of the dirty work being taken off his hands.

SPF said:

The principle is the same? Are you being absurd on purpose?

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Do you know what the term 'the principle is the same' means? It means that regardless of the individual differences between two entities carrying out an action, the basic reason they are carrying out the action are the same.

Women get abortions because they think life will be worse if they don't.
Same reason God takes out people with things like the Flood or when he commands his followers to wipe out a culture or whatever. He thinks life will be worse if they aren't killed.

I mean, I guess I'm presuming that's why God is supposedly doing it. I'm often told God is good and has a plan and that if he kills someone it was for a greater good. I guess it's possible that he's doing it for some other reason.

But women don't get abortions because its a fun way to spend an evening, they do it because they feel as if its the best decision they can make given their circumstances. It's a terrible thing to be in that situation, and they strive for the greater good, even if it requires doing something awful. Just like with the Flood. Same principle - an awful action for a greater good.

Providing you believe something like the Flood was really for a greater good. I really don't see how someone can think the Flood was good while also thinking that a desperate woman getting an abortion out of dire necessity is bad. Countless deaths seems worse than one death, and God doesn't have the excuse of being a limited mortal woman.

There is a stark difference between the Creator of the Universe, the one who literally owns you

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Gross.

There is a stark difference between the Creator of the Universe, the one who literally owns you (read Job) declaring judgment and you, a finite being deciding it’s acceptable to kill an innocent human being who has done no wrong.

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But they are both doing it, ultimately, for the same reason - to attain a greater good. Both are fundamentally the idea that some humans need to die to attain a greater good.

Also, why do people always make the point that the baby has 'done no wrong?' No one gets an abortion because they think the baby has 'done wrong'. The get an abortion to not be pregnant anymore.