Ablaze?

Google it.

You can read about it here:
http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=5248

When this started, my husband did some calculations and he came up with that if every member told some one about the Gospel, it came to something like 4 people for each year of the program.

To a lot of us, it is kind of a "feel good" thing. Shouldn't we be telling others anyway? Shouldn't we be supporting missions anyway? I suppose keeping record of contacts will show that people are telling others. We have doing this for a couple of years now. Have we seen an increase in membership?

This is just my take on it.

QuiltAngel said:

You can read about it here:
http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=5248

When this started, my husband did some calculations and he came up with that if every member told some one about the Gospel, it came to something like 4 people for each year of the program.

To a lot of us, it is kind of a "feel good" thing. Shouldn't we be telling others anyway? Shouldn't we be supporting missions anyway? I suppose keeping record of contacts will show that people are telling others. We have doing this for a couple of years now. Have we seen an increase in membership?

This is just my take on it.

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Of course they are going to promote this movement in as positive a light as anyone.

QuiltAngel said:

When this started, my husband did some calculations and he came up with that if every member told some one about the Gospel, it came to something like 4 people for each year of the program.

To a lot of us, it is kind of a "feel good" thing. Shouldn't we be telling others anyway? Shouldn't we be supporting missions anyway?

Click to expand...

[FONT= "Book Antiqua"]
You have identified the key! Sadly I know that many pastors never teach their people how to witness, never encourage them to witness. In fact, I know some pastors who have told their congregations that only the pastor is equipped to witness.

In Christ's love,
filo
[/font]

Ab-laze, the new exercise, is set to get people walking and talking like never before.

It sounds like a page from the playbook of the mega-churches (Willow Creek, Rick Warren). Who are these consultants that created this and who have they worked with before? Maybe knowing these, the fog might start to lift.

What is so Lutheran about it? And this is how LCMS is going to celebrate the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, by becoming American Evangelicals which is like, so far from anything Lutheran. Go to an E-Free service this Sunday. It is where you are heading with this "cushy AB-laze".

Ab-laze and sacrament light, the new liturgical church where talking about Jesus gives you bonus points.

Why is so much money needed to keep something this "light" afloat? Where are the expenses? How is the money being spent? Who receive it?

Remember, this is not a program but just a "light" invitation which is costing millions.

Only 10 more years...really? Pretentious and light and frothy whipcream.

If the concerns of syondical leaders were as sincere in reaching a million for the church, wouldn't they also be just as concerned for its members, not to deceive them and rob them of their elections in synodical conventions? Jesus for one would lead to Jesus for the other. This is what makes Ab-laze look like one big hoaky smokescreen.


Peace,
Cos

I totally get how many here on this forum are bashing the program. However, you are all sending an unintentional message that you are against people sharing their faith. I know this isn't what you believe but you have to hear things from the perspective of people you are trying to influence.

If you want to have some influence on the church at large you need to stop the Chicken Little routine that the end of the world (LCMS) is happening. If you continue to bash every aspect- methods and goals of the program you will be dismissed and you will have no voice in future matters because people will dismiss you as being closed minded.

I had this conversation with DeSemenarian on another thread. We need to change our language to something like this. "I am in favor of encouraging people to share their faith. It is one of the ways the Holy Spirit can use us to reach others outside of the church. I wish we can talk more about the issue of: ( fill in the blank)- counting, the critical event etc. We should be aware that just sharing our faith is not the whole of evangelism but seeing people baptized and coming to faith is what we should be more focused on than simply counting the number of times we talk to someone."

This encourages people into dialog and will encourage them to listen to you. That's the key. Getting people to listen to you. Right now, no one is listening to you because of how you are expressing yourself. As most of us know, it isn't what you say but how you say it.

I can honestly say that I never got the impression that anyone who spoke up against ABLAZE made it seem as though they were against sharing the word. I always got the impression that there were many MANY flaws within the program, though.

PreachersWife2004 said:

I can honestly say that I never got the impression that anyone who spoke up against ABLAZE made it seem as though they were against sharing the word. I always got the impression that there were many MANY flaws within the program, though.

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You got it. We don't ever want to stop sharing the Gospel message.

I think that at sometimes we write things forgetting that not all reading are involved in what we are writing about. An example I can give is that when we move to a new area, it is not always easy to know what people are talking about. They carry on their conversations like everybody hearing it, knows all the background to the subject. The new person feels lost or misunderstands things being said. When we write about things that our Synod is doing, we may forget that not all know about the particulr subject. Therefore, those may misunderstand what we are tyring to say. Does that make sense?

I had no clue what ABLAZE was until I read it here. I googled it, and did a whole lotta reading on it, just because I was curious what got people's ire up about it.

It's got good intentions, but hey, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

pastorjimg said:

I totally get how many here on this forum are bashing the program. However, you are all sending an unintentional message that you are against people sharing their faith. I know this isn't what you believe but you have to hear things from the perspective of people you are trying to influence.

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[FONT= "Book Antiqua"]
Just a point of clarification... "you are all sending". Some of us who have participated in this discussion are not bashing the program.

So, I would re-write it as: "all who are bashing the program are sending..."



Okay, grammar lesson finished.

In Christ's love,
filo
[/font]

TheCosmicGospel said:

What is so Lutheran about it?

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It's not. At least, in comparison to the much more conservative Lutheran synods. I hate to say it, but honestly, the right-wing churches are a lot less evangelical overall (not ALL the time, but more often than not) than the left-wing stuff...

Now, I say this because I'm LCMS, and I've yet to have gone to one church (and I've been to like 9 in my lifetime) that had both a good evangelism program AS WELL AS adequate assimilation programs. (Assimilation only means "keeping them coming", it's not some weird cult thing like it sounds like lol...). Some of the churches stress evangelism, "Go Out and Get'em!", but they have nothing to keep them there, so they had a huge "back-door" issue where they were fighting to keep people coming in to help balance out the flow of people leaving the church. My parents tried to help them close the door, but the "powers that be" (which wasn't the pastor, another problem with the church) didn't like the intrusion. HOWever, continuing on...

Basically, Our churches really have slim-to-nothing on the evangelism side; they're GREAT with the Bible and keeping people somewhat interested in their faith, but they have nothing going for them to actually get the people to hear the Word of God.

But, 'tis only my two cents upon the matter...

You need to visit my old church in Lansing, Emanuel First. They have a great evangelism program, which is now headed by my dad actually, and they keep the ones they bring in. They ALSO focus on the members that quit showing up and bringing them in. So far the number brought back to the fold is up to 23 or 25. I can't remember which.

They didn't get there overnight, though. It took a lot of work, and a lot of "campaigning" from people like my dad. I sometimes wish he had become a pastor. So, instead I married one.

I have been basically (but unofficially) told by my congregation that they don't want any new people in. There are too many internal issues to solve first. And, in a way, I have to agree with them. Of all the families I have gone through new member instruction with, all but one has been chased away in one way or another. It's very frustrating.

[FONT= "Book Antiqua"]
hmmm... choose who you lose?

(This is not meant as a criticism of you in anyway. It was a similar situation I faced 15 years ago. Within two years we began taking in 15 adult confirmands [not transfers] per year.)

In Christ's love,
filo
[/font]

Well, I have every intention of reaching out in some way shape or form, but I have this fear that anyone who does come in won't be there long.

DaRev said:

I have been basically (but unofficially) told by my congregation that they don't want any new people in. There are too many internal issues to solve first. And, in a way, I have to agree with them. Of all the families I have gone through new member instruction with, all but one has been chased away in one way or another. It's very frustrating.

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Sounds like you have a whole heap of catechizing to do with them. Especially in the area of the definition of church. We will pray for you.

Sorry pastorjim,

To get us on the bandwagon, try answering our concerns instead of sidestepping and making them seem petty.

Sharing the Gospel is nothing new, so why Ablaze? Tell us where it is coming from? Why was it consulted outside the influence of LCMS pastors? Who have they worked with before? Any Lutheran bodies?

Clear up the mud. Let's hear the facts. Why is so much money needed for something the church has been doing without Ablaze all these years?

Synodical programs don't work. This one is only after raising numbers, that isn't a concern from the get go?

10 more years? C'mon. Pigs will fly before then.

Peace,
Cos

DaRev said:

I have been basically (but unofficially) told by my congregation that they don't want any new people in. There are too many internal issues to solve first. And, in a way, I have to agree with them. Of all the families I have gone through new member instruction with, all but one has been chased away in one way or another. It's very frustrating.

Click to expand...

My pastor says pray, pray and then pray some more or like the Bible says. "Pray without ceasing".

I believe in prayer but I haven't seen the affects of it yet. Maybe we are all not praying enough. I don't have much patience and maybe that's what is wrong with the Ablaze program also. Patients. Maybe it's instant gratification and is giving churches false security on the possibilities of church growth.

Well, I'm on the prayer ministry team for my district -- which means that we get the weekly emails about this or that mission or outreach program in our district, and their particular concerns, and we pray for them.

I couldn't tell you how many of these programs would be done if not for Ablaze!, but I know that they are mentioned as under the Ablaze! mission -- to share the Gospel with others. I've been amazed at the variety of programs -- from new churches and missions to the deaf, Koreans, Chinese, Africans, etc., to one church's booth at their state fair last year, where they hoped to evangelize fair-goers, to some of the cup-of-cold-water ministries that serve our communities, to new preschools and dayschools opening up.

They also sent each member of the prayer ministry a booklet about prayer in the church: how to encourage it, different ways of praying, confidentiality issues that might arise, even outlines for prayer breakfasts and prayer vigils.


Our district's yearly leadership conference, coming up in August, is also touted under the banner of Ablaze, and of course it contains workshops on evangelism, but it also offers workshops on many of the things we've mentioned here -- how to keep people, how to get people interested and involved, how to grow people's Bible understanding, or how to help them incorporate Christian disciplines into their lives (Bible study, prayer, service, evangelism, etc.)


Would all of this happen without Ablaze! ? Probably. I would hope so. But having Ablaze! as an umbrella helps connect people together in their work to grow in Christian knowledge, love, and service.

I disagree with some of the things I've heard taught as evangelism. I'll ignore some of the suggestions about prayer that I think are more liberal than I am comfortable with.

But truly, in looking at places like Concordia Publishing, there isn't a whole lot of Lutheran-specific material just on evangelism, or prayer, or service. We're expected to do it, and to know how to do it, but there aren't many references available to us from a strictly Lutheran perspective. At least, not that I've found.

My husband and I have been asked again to teach adult Sunday School this fall. They want something dealing with Christian living. I wasn't able to find a good overall study for what we were seeking -- something that would touch on Bible study and prayer and service, etc. So we are submitting Celebration of Discipline to the elders as a potential book. It's not Lutheran. There are some parts of it that will need to be taken with a grain of salt.

But there just aren't a lot of Lutheran-specific resources to choose from on this stuff. So we're left with either pulling stuff together ourselves on our own (which we did for our heresy class and our denominations class) or using something from the "Christian Evengelical" movement (which granted, puts out a lot of crap, but some of it is pretty good).

It is my hope that, if nothing else, Ablaze! and other programs fo the church provide the interest and impetus to equip Lutherans better for our service in this life.