AA recovery rate

[detachment]

AA recovery rate is said to be by Bob Darrel an AA leader to be 1,2 or 3 percent. Spontaneous remission is 5 percent according to that AA worse then doing nothing for recovery. And I believe it is non CHRIST based recovery leads to failure.

 

[Autumnleaf]

I've been sober over 5 years. I heard the recovery rate is 5 to 10% these days. The old timers say it was 75% before judges started sending everyone to mandatory AA meetings. Its not something you get if you need it. Its something you get if you want it. AA is a plan of action and you have to take certain steps. At some of those people balk.

 

[Colter]

What is the rate based on? How do they determine this "spontaneous recovery rate"? And what was Jesus' rate of salvation?

It's not the program, it's the failure to follow the difficult program that solves an impossible problem. Same with Jesus, many are called but few choose.

 

[If Not For Grace]

PG 58 BB

"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.

Those who do not recover are people w ho cannot or will not completely
give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.

There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been
born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average.

There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest. "

The recovery rate seems tied to the honesty rate....

 

[chilehed]

This stuff about a 10%, 3%, 1% recovery rate is laughable nonsense. I've been clean in AA and NA for over 27 years. I've never, ever, ever seen anyone not stay clean if they actually worked the program - not once.

So the success rate of both of those programs is 100%. You can't really count people who never actually got with the program. It's like if you have 100 people with bacterial infections, you give all of them antibiotics, only ten of them crack the bottle and all ten recover - would you really be so stupid as to say that the antibiotics were only 10% successful? *rolleyes*

 

[Autumnleaf]

This stuff about a 10%, 3%, 1% recovery rate is laughable nonsense. I've been clean in AA and NA for over 27 years. I've never, ever, ever seen anyone not stay clean if they actually worked the program - not once.

So the success rate of both of those programs is 100%. You can't really count people who never actually got with the program. It's like if you have 100 people with bacterial infections, you give all of them antibiotics, only ten of them crack the bottle and all ten recover - would you really be so stupid as to say that the antibiotics were only 10% successful? *rolleyes*

100% success rate? What about those who are constitutionally unable to be honest? Aren't their chances less than average?

 

[chilehed]

100% success rate? What about those who are constitutionally unable to be honest? Aren't their chances less than average?

"Constitutionally unable to be honest" means the same thing as "constitutionally unable to adopt the program of recovery", and if one is unable to do what is necessary to recover then of course one's chances of recovering are less than average. But again, that's not a failure of the program.

Being unable to be honest is a pretty serious and rare psychological condition; the vast majority of the time what one sees is unwillingness rather than inability.

 

[Autumnleaf]

"Constitutionally unable to be honest" means the same thing as "constitutionally unable to adopt the program of recovery", and if one is unable to do what is necessary to recover then of course one's chances of recovering are less than average. But again, that's not a failure of the program.

Being unable to be honest is a pretty serious and rare psychological condition; the vast majority of the time what one sees is unwillingness rather than inability.

Denial is part of being unable to be honest and it affects alcoholics often.

 

[chilehed]

Denial is part of being unable to be honest and it affects alcoholics often.

Sure, but that phrase isn't intended to refer to what all alcoholics have in common.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Sure, but that phrase isn't intended to refer to what all alcoholics have in common.

I think you are right. Although it seems many go in and out of the program based on their ability to be honest with themselves and others.

 

[chilehed]

I think you are right. Although it seems many go in and out of the program based on their ability to be honest with themselves and others.

Yeah, it is an unfortunate catch-22. We have a disease that's characterized by self-deception, for which the cure involves being honest with oneself. At some point we (hopefully) become so beaten that we become willing to listen to other people and ignore the outrageous nonsense we tell ourselves.

Get a sponsor and get honest, or die.

 

[detachment]

you all are right I can't stay sober I had four years once been relapsing the last year and a half. Can't even get a week sober can't stop smoking either wasting a lot of money. Day one again. People who honestly try get a sponsor and help others stay sober. That recovery rate way higher.

 

[If Not For Grace]

You have to first change your thinking - When you do that your emotions and behaviors will change. Where a thought goes a molecule follows-there's science to back that up. Ask God to help you keep an open mind, to listen and learn and to help you to become willing. Remember recovery is 3 fold Detox (the physical) is only 1/3, the mental (thought process) is just as important and IF you leave out the spiritual (the other 1/3) you are doomed to relapse as well. The program includes all three..THAT's why it works.

God can do for you what you could not do. GFU! Find that sponsor and just be willing. Both groups (here and in your Face 2 Face group) will offer support. In the meantime keep praying the Serenity Prayer and you receive that courage and start changing what you can. Little by little we go far.

 

[GeordieTosh]

Those who do not recover are people w ho cannot or will not completely
give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.

There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been
born that way.

I agree, they are not at fault. But does that mean God fails?

 

[If Not For Grace]

No..it can be many things including but not limited to plain oh pride..

 

[Autumnleaf]

I agree, they are not at fault. But does that mean God fails?

They seem to have been born that way.

 

[MadamImAdaminChrist]

Interesting that honesty is the characteristic, above all, that is tied to success or failure, not willpower or belief in Jesus or stubborness or any other thing that people attribute their successes to in this world.

 

[GeordieTosh]

Interesting that honesty is the characteristic, above all, that is tied to success or failure, not willpower or belief in Jesus or stubborness or any other thing that people attribute their successes to in this world.

I think that's insightful. I'm quite active in sponsorship and the guys who tend to get and stay sober are the guys who can get past the ego and get honest.

It doesn't seem to matter whether they believe in a traditional concept of God, or not.

From my own recovery, through being honest and going through the 12 Step process with my sponsor, I had an experience that changed me. I could say I had an experience with God, or that I experienced God.

Nothing in my prior experience says I needed to believe in God for this to happen.

 

[Dan Kitzler]

Its something you get if you want it.

^^^BINGO!^^^^

 

[GeordieTosh]

AA recovery rate is said to be by Bob Darrel an AA leader to be 1,2 or 3 percent. Spontaneous remission is 5 percent according to that AA worse then doing nothing for recovery. And I believe it is non CHRIST based recovery leads to failure.

Well, many Christians, including my father, have died from their alcoholism - not a particularly glamorous death either. Yet I know many people with a non-Christ based recovery who have substantial long-term sobriety.

A.A. founders knew that if they made this thing 'Christian biased' it would bar a lot of people (like Buddhists for example) from recovery and A.A. would've turned into some niche Christian sect.

As for A.A. recovery rates, it generally works 100% for those who do the things A.A. suggests. The problem is drunks come to meetings, often with 'back problems' (their family is on their back), or they just sit on their ass, drink the coffee and don't do much. You can't get to God by 'ass-mosis'; it doesn't seem to work that way.

There's a lot of folk who have a financial interest in skewing A.A. recovery rates too. A.A. costs nothing, treatment centres make money from recovery; it's a multi-billion dollar industry.

I don't know who Bob Darrel is, but we don't have A.A. leaders. A loving God is our only authority, voiced through our Group Consciences.