I believe that the bible is timesless and i believe that it is also the truth. However, we humans can only understand what our generation understands. A perfect example of this is what it says about women. It seems to me that our world is very confused about our genders. Women are trying to look like men and men are trying to look like women. Women want jobs that men have tradtionally occupied and men are taking jobs that women have traditionally occupied. But how much of this isn't simply a reaction to the mistreatment of women in the past by men who have misunderstood their roles as men? What I mean is that, do we really understand men and do men really respect women? I believe women are just as intellignet as men, more so, in certain areas and less so in others. We see them as people before we see them as men or women. But aren't there certain attributes that men were given so that they can be our protectors and therefore, feel they have a lot more responsibility as protectors? They were given a different body type that does have more of a capacity to defend itself than women. How do we as women know whehter or not they were also given different emotional strengths that render them more suitable for making a place for themselves in the world than we women do? How much of our desire as women to compete with men comes from our own lack of respect for our gifts of nurturing than it does with trying to prove we are as good as they are? What's wrong with the gifts we women were given? Why do we seek praises from the world for the gifts that men were given? Do we see their as better than ours? I'd love to hear replies from both men and women.
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A woman's Place
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Dad Ernie
Well-Known Member
Greetings Carico,
I see that you are 53, is that correct? How long have you known the Lord? Have you studied the bible on these things you ask? To many, the topic of this discussion is like walking on egg shells. No one seems to want to hear the truth any more and I believe it is mostly due to "women's lib".
Herein lies the very bases for our most basic mentality:
Gen 3:16-19 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Now to convey the correct understanding of what "thy desire" is, look at:
Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
The Hebrew is the same for both of these. It is NOT a woman's physical desire for a man, but it is her "desire to rule over him". This most base nature is exhibited best by the story of Jezebel. Her husband, Ahab, was a weak knee'd, yellow belly and allowed ole Jez to in essence "rule over him". IOW, she was the power behind the scenes. How often have you heard that of many of histories ladies that made their mark?
Now Judge Deborah was an exception to the rule. Not much is said about her private life, but because no men were worthy of the position, God set up a Godly woman in the position a man should have.
There are several very Godly women in the Bible. I believe that Lemuel's wife may be the epitome of what a woman should be. And if you want a story of a very Godly woman, look to Ruth who under the tutelage of Naomi (another Godly woman) did things the "right way" and God blessed the both of them through Boaz.
But when you look at these Godly women, you have to see first their utter humility and faithfulness to God - regardless of how their men were.
Did you know that in the NT that Men are bidden to "love their wives", but Women are bidden to "respect their husbands". This is due to their most basic nature. It is just opposite of the "curse" mentioned above, where a woman would try to "rule over men", she is now to "respect" him, and even honor him as God Himself is honored. Look carefully at the Greek words for "respect and honor" as applied to men. Also, men are to "Love their wives as Christ loves the church", not "have the rule over them, subjugating them to the position of an animal. These things can only be made a reality in Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Well, I have gone on long enough. I hope you may glean some of your answers from this and that it was edifying.
Blessings,
Dad Ernie
I see that you are 53, is that correct? How long have you known the Lord? Have you studied the bible on these things you ask? To many, the topic of this discussion is like walking on egg shells. No one seems to want to hear the truth any more and I believe it is mostly due to "women's lib".
Herein lies the very bases for our most basic mentality:
Gen 3:16-19 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Now to convey the correct understanding of what "thy desire" is, look at:
Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
The Hebrew is the same for both of these. It is NOT a woman's physical desire for a man, but it is her "desire to rule over him". This most base nature is exhibited best by the story of Jezebel. Her husband, Ahab, was a weak knee'd, yellow belly and allowed ole Jez to in essence "rule over him". IOW, she was the power behind the scenes. How often have you heard that of many of histories ladies that made their mark?
Now Judge Deborah was an exception to the rule. Not much is said about her private life, but because no men were worthy of the position, God set up a Godly woman in the position a man should have.
There are several very Godly women in the Bible. I believe that Lemuel's wife may be the epitome of what a woman should be. And if you want a story of a very Godly woman, look to Ruth who under the tutelage of Naomi (another Godly woman) did things the "right way" and God blessed the both of them through Boaz.
But when you look at these Godly women, you have to see first their utter humility and faithfulness to God - regardless of how their men were.
Did you know that in the NT that Men are bidden to "love their wives", but Women are bidden to "respect their husbands". This is due to their most basic nature. It is just opposite of the "curse" mentioned above, where a woman would try to "rule over men", she is now to "respect" him, and even honor him as God Himself is honored. Look carefully at the Greek words for "respect and honor" as applied to men. Also, men are to "Love their wives as Christ loves the church", not "have the rule over them, subjugating them to the position of an animal. These things can only be made a reality in Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Well, I have gone on long enough. I hope you may glean some of your answers from this and that it was edifying.
Blessings,
Dad Ernie
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I definitely agree with what the bible says. I'm trying to reconcile it with our current mores which says the opposite. I believe that we women have demasculated men (and i understand the reason for it because i think a lot of men have not understood their roles in regard to loving their wives as Christ loved the church). I think the "woman behind the man" requires great humility and genuine love and i think we as a society under-estimate the importance of this role. I think that if Hillary Clinton, for example, had stood behind her husband more and not sought the limelight for herself, then she would have had a better marriage and her husband wouldn't have looked like such a fool to his constituents. That doesn't at all, take away her intelligence because she alwyas has that reagrdless of whether she seeks praises for it. I just think that she sought the praises of the world more than genuinly loving her husband. If we women could stand behind our men more, i really think it would lower the divorce rate substantially. My question is this; Do you as a man, DadErnie, feel that we women have tried to take the place of men in society?
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Dad Ernie
Well-Known Member
Greetings Carico,
As I pointed out, that is one of the most basic traits of women. I think the example of Hillary Clinton is in the category of Jezebel. Godless, conniving and wanting the headship. She is still mulling the idea around of becoming President.
Only through Christ can any of us expect to live up to the hopes and expectations of our spouses. Women have been relegated to the back pew for so long, I really do understand their base desire to come to the fore. But this is not God's plan. Eve was given to Adam as a "help meet". This tells me that Adam "without" Eve is lacking an important aspect of his life. But it also tells me that women were designed differently, perhaps more "spiritually and mentally" strong than man. Together, with Christ, we are as a "three fold cord that is not easily broken":
Eccl 4:9-12 Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour. 10 For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up. 11 Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone? 12 And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.
We each have our strengths and weaknesses, and I see a great deal of wisdom in the above verses.
Blessings,
Dad Ernie
As I pointed out, that is one of the most basic traits of women. I think the example of Hillary Clinton is in the category of Jezebel. Godless, conniving and wanting the headship. She is still mulling the idea around of becoming President.
Only through Christ can any of us expect to live up to the hopes and expectations of our spouses. Women have been relegated to the back pew for so long, I really do understand their base desire to come to the fore. But this is not God's plan. Eve was given to Adam as a "help meet". This tells me that Adam "without" Eve is lacking an important aspect of his life. But it also tells me that women were designed differently, perhaps more "spiritually and mentally" strong than man. Together, with Christ, we are as a "three fold cord that is not easily broken":
Eccl 4:9-12 Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour. 10 For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up. 11 Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone? 12 And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.
We each have our strengths and weaknesses, and I see a great deal of wisdom in the above verses.
Blessings,
Dad Ernie
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Carico, in the High School Certificate in N.S.W Australia, Girls have been kicking the guys in academic marks for over a decade.
Also, my mum's company, it use to be run by my dad, but he couldn't manage, but thanks to mum, she's made the company with a huge reputation.
I agree with you that women are willing to go for men's jobs, and men are interested in women things like cooking, makeup...etc...which kinda discribes me....except the makeup...but I do care for my skin.
I think it's been a long tradition of men not to talk about feelings, until this modern age we can, and the walls confining these things have been pulled down...
This will lead to a future of something uncertain...
Also, my mum's company, it use to be run by my dad, but he couldn't manage, but thanks to mum, she's made the company with a huge reputation.
I agree with you that women are willing to go for men's jobs, and men are interested in women things like cooking, makeup...etc...which kinda discribes me....except the makeup...but I do care for my skin.
I think it's been a long tradition of men not to talk about feelings, until this modern age we can, and the walls confining these things have been pulled down...
This will lead to a future of something uncertain...
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I can only say for myself, that God made me the way that I am, and I am not trying to 'take over the man's job' I run my own company and I put God first in my life. I don't attach my identity to my work, but I am also extremely fulfilled with what i do, I couldn't be any happier. If it was taken away from me, I would always have God and that's all that matters. However, Thank God I have the choice. Plus to the original OP, the men I hang around with do look for women who are independent and driven, and many guys in university are taking nursing and other 'traditional' female roles while the women are in engineering etc. so yes the roles are definitely changing.
have you seen the movie Mona Lisa smile? it really shows the reality of things
have you seen the movie Mona Lisa smile? it really shows the reality of things
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EdmundBlackadderTheThird
Proud member of the Loud Few
Well the problem with the whole argument that women are taking men's places in the workforce is moot. The Bible speaks on two things, a woman's role in marriage and a woman's role in the church and nothing more. It does not say that a woman cannot have a job that man has. This is common amongst people who would use the Bible to put women down. The NT references to the woman submitting to a man are for marriage. The man is to be the spiritual head of the household, this indeed does not even mean what we English speakers think it does. The "head" of something in the Biblical times was not thought of like a human, where the head is on top and controlling, it was thought of like a cow, with the head in the front. The Biblical instructions are for the husband to be out in front, on point. Most people that discuss this subject also forget that the male and female in a marriage are equal in terms of sex. The wife has no authority over her body except that of the husband and the husband has no authority over his body except for that of the wife. It is equality in the marriage bed, the man is not in charge there. The Bible does not teach us to subjugate women but to be out in front spiritually to take the brunt of the enemies attacks on the family.
However the "castration" of the male that is happening in the western society is a problem. It is all over TV and the movies. A man's outward countenance is a reflection of his spiritual life. If a man is highly emotional then he is more than likely not spiritually ready to be on point for his family. There is a great article on this part of the topic, by an atheist no less, it is somewhat vulgar in places so I will only give the link to those that PM me and ask, I do not want a child accidently stumbling onto the language that he uses. A man should be manly and nothing less. The Bible speaks on this as well.
So in conclusion should women be treated as slaves or even close? Not according to the scripture! Should a man be "in touch" with his emotions and outwardly express them all the time? More than likely not. He must be able to stand up to the attacks of the enemy or he is not in his rightful place in the family!
However the "castration" of the male that is happening in the western society is a problem. It is all over TV and the movies. A man's outward countenance is a reflection of his spiritual life. If a man is highly emotional then he is more than likely not spiritually ready to be on point for his family. There is a great article on this part of the topic, by an atheist no less, it is somewhat vulgar in places so I will only give the link to those that PM me and ask, I do not want a child accidently stumbling onto the language that he uses. A man should be manly and nothing less. The Bible speaks on this as well.
So in conclusion should women be treated as slaves or even close? Not according to the scripture! Should a man be "in touch" with his emotions and outwardly express them all the time? More than likely not. He must be able to stand up to the attacks of the enemy or he is not in his rightful place in the family!
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EdmundBlackadderTheThird
Proud member of the Loud Few
wonder111:
I would not use the fact that the roles appear to be changing to put things in a positive light. We as a society are accepting of open homosexuality, pornography, adultery, and various other things that are not pleasing to God. Society does not reflect what is right, in fact today's society reflects a rejection of what is right and moral. So societal comparisons are not that great a point to make. If you check my other post you will see that I have no problem with women doing what used to be considered a man's job, just thought I would point out the problems with using society as a barometer for what is right and wrong.
I would not use the fact that the roles appear to be changing to put things in a positive light. We as a society are accepting of open homosexuality, pornography, adultery, and various other things that are not pleasing to God. Society does not reflect what is right, in fact today's society reflects a rejection of what is right and moral. So societal comparisons are not that great a point to make. If you check my other post you will see that I have no problem with women doing what used to be considered a man's job, just thought I would point out the problems with using society as a barometer for what is right and wrong.
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But my point is, Icystwolf, how did your dad feel about himself when your mom took over the company to make more money? What did she do for his ego? It's the same with kicking other guys by getting better marks. What does any of this have to do with love? The greates commandment that Jesus gave us was to love god and then love others. We love God by honoring His word to love others. Again, women are compteting with men to "prove" they are just as good or better. do we not like ourselves without having to prove anything to others?
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flesh99 said:
how does saying that society is changing mean it's a good thing, I never said it was good or bad, I simply stated a fact. I think you read me wrong
also about the Hillary Clinton thing, I recall somone else posting about George Bush saying he loved having alot of women on his team like Condoleezza Rice(a very religious Christian). He thinks it's necesary to have a strong women's point of view
I don't think it's good that men are taught to not show emotion, becuase they are taught that anger is allright for a man, and that seems to be the only way some men can vent emotion. I've noticed that is a good change though, men are finally being taught (not all men) that it's alright to vent emotion no matter what they are feeling. I think pent up emotions can cause physical problems, illness etc.
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I enjoyed reading the above discussion. I agree with the thought that the Bible only addresses a woman's role in the church and home. However, I believe the answer to many questions could be easily determined if we would only allow ourselves to think a little more logically. I believe, however, that we are so hung-up with "today" that we forget to see things from God's abilities - He is all powerful, creator, guide, judge - thus He can do as He wills. Let's think about what He did and did not do.
Let me point out a few thoughts:
1. Since God created Adam & Eve, he could have created either first. Thus, Eve could have been created and then Adam from her rib. What would that imply? Be careful - carry it to the logical end and read Jesus' thoughts on it in Matthew when He speaks on divorce.
2. God could have at any point appointed a woman as a high priest - but He didn't.
3. God could have at any point appointed a woman to the throne of Israel - but he didn't.
4. Christ could have chosen any of the many women who followed Him as one of his apostles - but he didn't.
5. Christ could have sent them out man and woman - instead of two by two - but He didn't.
6. The qualifications for Elders and Deacons could clearly have specified that women were to be allowed - but they don't - "Husband of one wife"
With all that said, what guidelines does God offer - well, let's start with the worthy woman of Proverbs and see were it goes from there.
Let me point out a few thoughts:
1. Since God created Adam & Eve, he could have created either first. Thus, Eve could have been created and then Adam from her rib. What would that imply? Be careful - carry it to the logical end and read Jesus' thoughts on it in Matthew when He speaks on divorce.
2. God could have at any point appointed a woman as a high priest - but He didn't.
3. God could have at any point appointed a woman to the throne of Israel - but he didn't.
4. Christ could have chosen any of the many women who followed Him as one of his apostles - but he didn't.
5. Christ could have sent them out man and woman - instead of two by two - but He didn't.
6. The qualifications for Elders and Deacons could clearly have specified that women were to be allowed - but they don't - "Husband of one wife"
With all that said, what guidelines does God offer - well, let's start with the worthy woman of Proverbs and see were it goes from there.
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deu58
Senior Veteran
hello all
Like dad Ernie said this is a delicate topic but it is also very deep. There are many women in the work place who would much rather be home
taking care of their children. But because of economic reasons they simply can't. Not every woman is an up and coming corporate executive
or technician. Many hold Jobs with high stress low pay and no future. In my mind the two most important jobs in world are the Pastor and then
the Mother/housewife. If it is our children who will shape our future then it is the Mother/housewife that shapes our children. The only thing that can be more important than that is the true Pastor of God who Feeds his flock what they need for their spiritual development.
yours in Christ
deu58
Like dad Ernie said this is a delicate topic but it is also very deep. There are many women in the work place who would much rather be home
taking care of their children. But because of economic reasons they simply can't. Not every woman is an up and coming corporate executive
or technician. Many hold Jobs with high stress low pay and no future. In my mind the two most important jobs in world are the Pastor and then
the Mother/housewife. If it is our children who will shape our future then it is the Mother/housewife that shapes our children. The only thing that can be more important than that is the true Pastor of God who Feeds his flock what they need for their spiritual development.
yours in Christ
deu58
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freddy said:
You do realize that back then, not only was it very patriochical, but women were viewed as 1) property 2) lower than dirt. There is no way a woman could rule over a country back then. Also, some tradition has it that the Blessed Virgin Mary was the first apostle, since she was the first to accept the Word [in her womb]. The Bible does state that Jesus had many disciples, only 12 were mentioned. That is why in John 6 (I think that is the chapter), when Jesus said that unless you eat of his flesh and drink of his blood you have no life in you, it states that many disciples left. He then turned to his 12 disciples and asked if they too were going to leave. So, there could have been women disciples. Who were the first to bring the good news to the apostles that Christ had risen from the dead? It was the women. Not one man came to the tomb and was announced by an angel that Christ has risen. It was the women who stayed at the foot of the cross of Jesus, it was the women who didn't flee. All the disciples fled from Christ before his crucifixion. We do not live in the same society as they did back then. Women have been given status now.
The only jobs women could get (usually) was being a prostitute. Very few women could get jobs that were different. It wasn't until WWI that women could go out and get jobs in the US without being told "no" because they were a woman. Heck, the men were off fighting. Women still got to keep their jobs after the war. Women built the planes and such that the men needed to fight with. In the 20's, women won the right to vote.
Do we really want to put women back into a place where they were only a piece of property? Where they were lower than dirt? Is that what we want? Do we want women to stay home and be pregnant and barefoot for all time now? Do we want to deny the right for women to achieve an education? Do we want to have the widows and the children who's father/husband have passed to live on the street because we are afraid to let the women work? Do we want women and children starving to death because we would not allow women to work and the spouse died? How far back should we take this?
Yours in Christ,
Jen
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EdmundBlackadderTheThird
Proud member of the Loud Few
We should do nothing more than the Bible tells us we should do. God's word is timeless and instructive to all generations. We are not trying to subjugate women here, not in the least. Women have a role and a very important one at that! The problem is that some men want to take the Bible and use it to put women under their thumb. Yes in a marriage the woman should submit to the spiritual authority of her husband, this is clear. A woman should not hold a position as a pastor, the Bible is clear on that as well. But a woman is totally in the clear to hold a job and do what has been considered men's work. However she does a have a well defined role in the family and should not neglect that if it all possible. I am certain that our loving God allows for single moms to provide for their family. However if we followed the scripture then this would not be necessary in most cases (I can expound if need be), the problem is we have too many men not doing what they should be doing to begin with, which is putting women in the position to do what is necessary to feed thier families. We should not look to condemm the single mom striving to make ends meet, but to the man who is not doing his duty and taking care of his family.
As for the case of widows, they should be taken care of by the husbands family and if there is no family then by the church. I feel pretty strongly about this even though I have never seen a church willing to do this. We, as a body of believers, are all guilty of not taking care of women in the way they should be taken care of in situations like this.
aanjt:
You use society as a baramoter wich is not a good point at all. Soceity is morally bankrupt and in a disgusting state. Women being status by society means nothing to me at all. What matters to me, and what should matter to all Christians, is what the Word of God says and nothing more.
wonder111:
You are right i did read you wrong, and I apologize. But it looks like someone else should go read the post I originally intended for you
As for the case of widows, they should be taken care of by the husbands family and if there is no family then by the church. I feel pretty strongly about this even though I have never seen a church willing to do this. We, as a body of believers, are all guilty of not taking care of women in the way they should be taken care of in situations like this.
aanjt:
You use society as a baramoter wich is not a good point at all. Soceity is morally bankrupt and in a disgusting state. Women being status by society means nothing to me at all. What matters to me, and what should matter to all Christians, is what the Word of God says and nothing more.
wonder111:
You are right i did read you wrong, and I apologize. But it looks like someone else should go read the post I originally intended for you
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flesh99 said:
In today's society, it practically forces people to have a 2 income (full-time income) jobs in order to have a home and family and to care for them properly. If I did not work, we could not afford to buy the house we have. We couldn't even have afforded to get another vehicle when our other one completely broke down, which would have meant that my husband (assuming I wasn't working) would had to have to find another way to work. See, public transportation does not go to where my husband works (he works 2 cities away).
flesh99 said:
If you mean as women have a higher status than they did back in biblical times, then you are right, in a sense. Women are no longer a piece of property. Women are no longer viewed less than dirt. Phoebe in the NT had a position of deacon in the church. Paul referred to her as such. Another woman in the NT had a church in her home. It is assumed that she was the leader. When Paul wrote that women should keep silent in the church, it was written for a particular situation. Women, most women, back then were uneducated. Women and men did not sit together. Some churches women were on one side and men on the other. In other churches, women were seperated in the back. If a woman did not understand what was being said, she would have to literally holler out to her husband to ask him. That would be disruptive.
I know more about church history, more about the Bible than my husband. My husband has even stated this to people as well. Since I am to submit under the "spiritual authority" of my husband, how is this to happen when I have more knowledge than he does? Or am I suppose to quit learning? My husband along with some other males, have said to me that I should go to seminary to be ordained. This is my plan. It is a calling I have tried to push aside, but God keeps yelling it to me louder and louder. Each time I push it aside, my passion for religion and theology, for studying the Bible becomes even more intense than it ever had before.
Have you ever had that happen before? Where you feel God is trying to tell you something, you ignore it, and it becomes more intense? Once you do what God wants you to do, something seems fulfilling about it? Why is it okay for women to teach Sunday School, but as soon as that child hits a certain age, she is no longer worthy to teach? Do you realize that in most households it is the mothers who gives the children the spiritual direction? Do you realize that in my household, if it were not for me years ago, insisting on going to church, my family would have never gone because at that time my husband preferred to sleep in? If I had done what he wanted, my children would not be getting any spiritual direction and we would not be going to church. My husband now loves going to church, especially in the past 4-5 years. I guess it was finding the right church as well. But do you know that when we were looking for another church, my husband refused to go looking with me? He left it up to me to find a church for our family.
Sometimes leavnig spiritual direction to the husband can push the family away from religion altogether, and ultimately away from God. If the woman is stronger in the spiritual life, then she should direct.
If the man is, then he should direct. Don't forget that Paul said in Christ there is no male or female. If this is true, then there should not be a problem with women being priests/pastors/ministers since there is no male or female in Christ.
Yours in Christ,
Jen
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Carico said:
It appreas that I got in this thread a bit late so exucess me for going back to the top, but even if i got in it at the beining, i would still start here, it is the best place to start to show my point. Your question is about the 'roles' of womyn. I think that is where you make your frist mistake, I think you have to reject this ideal of 'roles' becuase by nature that means that someone must define thoes roles, and who as that been in the past well men, and if we contuie to ask ourselevs what these roles are we are going to get roles that are men basied which is bad yet if we could stop this battle of the sexes and relize that we are all equal(apply the idea that God judges as equals here) that we could get to a sloution that is better for human kind ranther than man, becuase for too long as the socity been burrend with this male domanice and womyn submission, i think its about time we start treating people as people and not discimnating aginst a person becuase of how they were born I could go on with more retoric but i think ya'll got it, or at least i hope ya'll did
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What an interesting topic; thanks Carico. My point has less to do with what women's roles are specifically, and more to do with the fact that men and women's roles are different and should be. God, in His wisdom, created two complementary beings. Each has a different function on earth, but both are necessary, and both are destined to be with the Lord in Heaven.
I worry when these differences are seen as being weakness, for they surely are not. Our only weakness is sin, and this is inherent to both genders. Without sin, both genders would, I believe, see each others' roles for what they truly are - to aid one another and do all for the glory of God. "We were not put on this earth to see through one another [a selfish view], but to see one another through [a humbling, giving attitude]." -- Author Unknown
I worry when these differences are seen as being weakness, for they surely are not. Our only weakness is sin, and this is inherent to both genders. Without sin, both genders would, I believe, see each others' roles for what they truly are - to aid one another and do all for the glory of God. "We were not put on this earth to see through one another [a selfish view], but to see one another through [a humbling, giving attitude]." -- Author Unknown
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Carico, you are not arguing that a woman should suppress her God-given abilities merely in order to reinforce a man's false pride, are you?Carico said:
I think you will find much more teaching in the Bible against pride than you will find about the kind of gender-role structure you are advocating.
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