A View On Homosexuality...

PatrickM said:

Can you be more specific regarding your references? "News-Telegraph"'s are in the thousands. Would like to read up on it myself.

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What I did was go to yahoo and typed in Camerons name, there are many sites about him and quoting him

GMRELIC said:

What I did was go to yahoo and typed in Camerons name, there are many sites about him and quoting him

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Thanks. Is very disturbing, if true.

Why do so many Christians make topics and seem so interested in homosexuality? Who are they trying to convince that homosexual feelings are wrong, others... or themselves?

stray bullet said:

Why do so many Christians make topics and seem so interested in homosexuality? Who are they trying to convince that homosexual feelings are wrong, others... or themselves?

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I am a Christian, but I am in favor of gay marriage, I think alot of people that are so opposed to it are either upset at thier own surpressed feelings,
or trying to take away from thier own sins by trying to point out others sins,
and I think some just think it is morally wrong, but why this one issue is such a debate, i have no idea, I don't see debates about working on the Sabbath,
about Gluttony, remarriage after divorce, or even suicide. Seems to be a
preoccupation to this one

stray bullet said:

Why do so many Christians make topics and seem so interested in homosexuality? Who are they trying to convince that homosexual feelings are wrong, others... or themselves?

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It's more of a counter-balance to the "in our face" activism witnessed by all the current events. Also, as a corrective measure to those Christians who are confused on the issue.

Volos said:

Actually several conservative Christian leaders and are supportive of the murder of gays and lesbians. Paul Cameron, the founder of the Family Research Council (a subsidiary of Focus on the Family) advocates that homosexuals be arrested, branded (as in hot metal pressed into the face) , physically mutilated and then executed for “crimes against nature”

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What can be found on this man is, indeed, disturbing. Having said this, there a few points to be made.

Cameron actually founded the Family Research Institute, which is miles apart from the FRC. Noticed this group's website hasn't been updated since 11/2002. Can't imagine why.

Also, notice Focus on the Family spun off the FRI some 20 years ago. Again, FRC is currently connected with FOTF, but not Cameron's group. Just to set the record straight.

All this aside, this one man's misguidedness is not, repeat not, the opinion of Christians as a whole. Apart from Cameron, what say you regarding the OP?

Although lengthy, it has many valid points, which have been largely ignored in many of the responses here. Most "arguments" have been addressed in the OP.

BTW, this thread is not about people like Cameron, but the accurate Christian view towards homosexuality. Notice I said the act, not the person.

Post Script. The "quotes" from the "News-Telegraph" were actually quotes on hatecrimes.com. Using Lexus-Nexus, I still cannot find the actual articles.

I noticed numerous other "hatecrimes.com" type sites also quoting this "News-Telegraph" piece. Hmm, but no actual article itself. Could this be a case of disinformation?

Eureka! Here's an exact copy from this "newsletter's" heading:

"The News-Telegraph is a semi-monthly newspaper for and about Gays and
Lesbians, with offices in St. Louis and Kansas City, and serving Missouri,
Kansas, Arkansas, the southern two-thirds of Illinois and western Tennessee."

A very objective news source, eh?

This is from a article in Rolling Stones Magizine march 18th 1999 written by Robert Dreyfuss.

One thing that Phelps has in common with the Family Research Council, the Christian Coalition and ex gay ministries like Exodus is that they all refer to the work of Dr. Paul Cameron, founder of the Family Research Institute and ISIS, the institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality. Cameron, 59, a former psychologist based in Colorado Springs, issues a stream of data often used by anti-gay activists: that gays are far more likely than straights to molest children, that gays are more likely to commit crimes as mundane as tax evasion or shoplifting, and so on. “We’re kind of the wellspring of most of the statistics about the gay lifestyle.” Cameron says. Cameron, who in the 1980s called for quarantining gays to prevent the spread of AIDS, has been attacked not only by gay-rights groups but also by psychologists, psychiatrists and sociologists, who have engaged in decades long war with Cameron. Like many of his allies, Cameron believes that, if left unchecked, homosexuality will destroy America like God did Sodom. “Untrammeled homosexuality can take over and destroy a social system,” says Cameron. “If you isolate sexuality as something solely for one’s own personal amusement, and all you want is the most satisfying [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] you can get- and that is what homosexuality seems to be-then homosexuality seems too powerful to resist. The evidence is that men do a better job on men and women on women, if all you are looking for is [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].” So powerful is the allure of gays, Cameron believes, that if society approves that gay people, more and more heterosexuals will be inexorably drawn into homosexuality. “I’m convinced that lesbians are particularly good seducers,” says Cameron. “People in homosexuality are incredibly evangelical,” he adds, sounding evangelical himself. “It’s pure sexuality. It’s almost like pure heroin. It’s such a rush. They are committed in almost a religious way. And they’ll take enormous risks, do anything.” He says that for married men and women, gay sex would be irresistible. “Martial sex tends toward the boring end,” he points out. “Generally, it doesn’t deliver the kind of sheer sexual pleasure that homosexual sex does” So, Cameron believes, within a few generations homosexuality would be come the dominant form of sexual behavior.

Originally posted by : jazzbird

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Could you back that assertation up with some proof, please?

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It’s not hard to find stuff from this particular fruitcake.

Start here:

http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/hate.html

Volos said:

It’s not hard to find stuff from this particular fruitcake.

Start here:

[url="http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/hate.html"]http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/hate.html[/url]

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You might want to use a different link considering that that one is clearly bias, it even has a sign up for "gay politics".

Originally posted by : dnich163

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Sounds like a nut case to me totally misusing the message of Jesus...the minute love is not right in the middle of our actions, we are doomed...doomed I tell you !!

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Unfortunately the works of Paul Cameron is one of people most often resourced by conservative Christians when they seek to justify discrimination against gays and lesbians. Not a week goes by here without someone on these forums posting links to this man’s many publications or directly quoting his “research”.

Cameron is responsible for the popular lie that homosexuals have a life expectancy of 39. Some of his other popular lies include:

The majority of mass murders are homosexuals

Homosexuals commit more than half of all child sexual assaults

Homosexual teachers are at least seven to twelve times more likely to molest a pupil

Gay men average hundreds of sexual partners per year

Homosexuals are over 5000 times more likely to have a sexually transmitted disease



And dozens of others.

Originally posted by : Beleg_Strongbow

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And homosexuality is about love. What is all that wrong with two people loving each other? The world could always use more love. Don't you think there's more constructive uses of your time than getting all upset about two people having a loving relationship that doesn't even affect you? Trying to stop this does not sound like love is in the middle of your actions.

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If you read the OP you realized that the original author went out of his way to pretend that homosexuality was about anything but love. Talking about homosexuality is any meaningful way outside of calling it list, unnatural or sinful reframes the argument is ways many people do not like. It is difficult to justify discrimination against love but easy to justify it against lust.

And as for the OT laws, how do we know which ones to follow? What determines this? If God wanted people to behave a certain way, why not lay down the law for all of humanity during Adam's lifetime and not change his mind from there? A lot of the passages from the OP were from the OT. And yes, there are a lot more than 10 commandments, try reading Exodus straight through.

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My personal belief is that it all boils down to personal convince. Those who feel they would be inconvenient to follow the strict laws of Leviticus choose to say that they are not longer applicable. However those same people may wish to justify their personal prejudices so they also say that the many dietary and living arrangement laws of the OT are inapplicable the laws condemning homosexuality are certainly applicable because that is what they want to believe.

PatrickM said:

It's more of a counter-balance to the "in our face" activism witnessed by all the current events. Also, as a corrective measure to those Christians who are confused on the issue.

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How would you like it if people constantly bashed Christianity for the 'in your face atitude' of many of them?

stray bullet said:

How would you like it if people constantly bashed Christianity for the 'in your face atitude' of many of them?

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LOL what do you mean, that already happens.

originally posted by: jazzbird

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There are many laws in the OT, but there are only ten commandments - the laws written on stone tablets that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai. I tried to explain what determines how we live - if there are more specific questions about what I wrote previously, let me know. If you're willing to read this Bible, try Romans. It explains a lot about the Law and Grace and how Christians are to live. We should be thankful that God didn't leave us with the Law.

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I have read it. I found very little love or grace in that book.

People mistake the Love we are to have. It is not a wishy-washy emotional and irrational love. It is a love based on the Truths of the Bible. The reason that I don't believe homosexuality is right is because that's what God says.

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No. that is what you choose to read into it. Much like your choice to believe that some OT laws need not apply to you personally.

Therefore, it is only out of love that I take a stand for what I believe with my homosexual friends - because it is about more than the fleeting earthly love of this world. I am concerned for their soul. If I didn't believe this, then hey, I'd say do what you want as long as you're not hurting me, but that's not all there is to life. I want people to come to know the true, unchanging, everlasting love that comes from God. I try to show that in the best way I can, though I am an innadequate and imperfect person.

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It sounds more like you want people to act and do and believe what you want them to.

Volos said:

I have read it. I found very little love or grace in that book.
No. that is what you choose to read into it. Much like your choice to believe that some OT laws need not apply to you personally.

It sounds more like you want people to act and do and believe what you want them to.

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You are wrong about what I want for homosexuals. The fact is, I used to say it was okay. I wanted it to be okay. I supported my gay friends in their lifestyle. But when I came to God honestly, I couldn't deny Truth. Yes, I want my gay friends to know God. That is ultimately what I want. Everything in this world is not true. My heart breaks for my friends. I am not a homophobe or a hate-monger - but I'm also not a relativist. I know you don't agree but that is where I'm coming from.

As for the OT, some laws don't apply to me, and that's just fact. I don't pick and choose. I don't discard the OT.

jazzbird said:

Yes, I want my gay friends to know God.

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You don't have to be straight to know God

I think it is terrible that Christians are telling gays and bisexuals that they can either be who they are OR know God.

stray bullet said:

You don't have to be straight to know God

I think it is terrible that Christians are telling gays and bisexuals that they can either be who they are OR know God.

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If you know the True God of the Bible you cannot continue to live in a sinful lifestyle. I believe that one can have homosexual tendencies and be saved - most definetely, but I don't believe they can disregard what the scriptures say regarding the homosexual lifestyle and continue on in that sin.

One of my best friends is very spiritual and a homosexual. He cannot reconcile his desire for God with his lifestyle, and he's choosing his lifestyle over God. He doesn't really understand God, and he tries to justify his actions, but he can't fully.

I know it has to be the most difficult thing to choose when you feel it is such an inherent part of you. I can't imagine being told that I would have to leave my husband, who I love so deeply, in order to follow Christ. I can't imagine it.
I'm not trying to make light of what the homosexual has to deal with.

If we choose to follow Christ, we all must forsake ourselves. We all have to make choices. We have to deny our sinful nature and strive to be like Christ.

stray bullet said:

You don't have to be straight to know God

I think it is terrible that Christians are telling gays and bisexuals that they can either be who they are OR know God.

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i agree, but I also say to know God means you will repent of sin, which includes homosexuality.