A Universe From Nothing

[Btodd]

This is a talk from 2009 by Lawrence Krauss, and his book of the same title just came out yesterday. I have no training in cosmology; the only knowledge I have of the subject has come from my own curiosity and fascination with the Universe. I found it mind-boggling and amazing.

Would love to hear people's thoughts, particularly those who have some real physics education. WARNING: Richard Dawkins introduces him, and Krauss takes a few humorous pot-shots at religion in the talk, since it was given at an American Atheists annual meeting. If you think you might be offended, you've been warned.

"A Universe From Nothing" - Lawrence Krauss, Richard Dawkins - YouTube

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

One of my favorite lectures I've seen on YouTube. It's one of those things I wish everyone would watch.

 

[AV1611VET]

tl;dr

 

[sfs]

I only skimmed it, because I don't like watching lectures, and because I'm supposed to already know most of this stuff. The title is a bit of a verbal sleight of hand. Yes, physics allows the physical universe to have come from nothing, but the nothing involved is the rich, physically complex nothing of the quantum vacuum, obeying quite specific physical laws. Physics has as little fundamental answer to why the whole universe -- quantum vacuum, quantum laws, and all -- exists as it ever did.

(Krauss was an assistant professor at Yale when I was a grad student in physics there, back in the day, so I used to know him slightly.)

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

I only skimmed it, because I don't like watching lectures, and because I'm supposed to already know most of this stuff. The title is a bit of a verbal sleight of hand. Yes, physics allows the physical universe to have come from nothing, but the nothing involved is the rich, physically complex nothing of the quantum vacuum, obeying quite specific physical laws. Physics has as little fundamental answer to why the whole universe -- quantum vacuum, quantum laws, and all -- exists as it ever did.

(Krauss was an assistant professor at Yale when I was a grad student in physics there, back in the day, so I used to know him slightly.)

Physics majors I knew that went to Case Western said he was a tyrant as the head of physics there. Did he rub you the wrong way or was he cool?

 

[sfs]

Physics majors I knew that went to Case Western said he was a tyrant as the head of physics there. Did he rub you the wrong way or was he cool?

No, he didn't rub me the wrong way, but I only ran into him at lunch a few times. Many saints and many tyrants have made good table conversation.

 

[Btodd]

I'm jealous, as I would love to meet him. But to address one part of what you said, isn't the whole point that there's no reason to assume that absolutely nothing ever existed in the first place; that our conception of the idea is inherently flawed? I find the concept of 'nothing' to be self-refuting in a sense, so perhaps all that ever existed was this quantum state, and Big Bangs have been occurring into the infinite past.

Your thoughts?


Btodd

 

[Michael]

This is a talk from 2009 by Lawrence Krauss, and his book of the same title just came out yesterday. I have no training in cosmology; the only knowledge I have of the subject has come from my own curiosity and fascination with the Universe. I found it mind-boggling and amazing.

Would love to hear people's thoughts, particularly those who have some real physics education. WARNING: Richard Dawkins introduces him, and Krauss takes a few humorous pot-shots at religion in the talk, since it was given at an American Atheists annual meeting. If you think you might be offended, you've been warned.

"A Universe From Nothing" - Lawrence Krauss, Richard Dawkins - YouTube

I've seen it. I'm not impressed. IMO he's falling for the oldest trick in the book, the belief that one can get "something for nothing". IMO it's absurd. The laws of physics insist that energy cannot be *CREATED* nor destroyed, in can only change forms. Whatever energy exists today has existed for eternity in one form or another.

 

[Btodd]

I've seen it. I'm not impressed. IMO he's falling for the oldest trick in the book, the belief that one can get "something for nothing". IMO it's absurd. The laws of physics insist that energy cannot be *CREATED* nor destroyed, in can only change forms. Whatever energy exists today has existed for eternity in one form or another.

I took that as being exactly the point...nothing is not literally nothing. I've still never seen a coherent idea put forth that would establish the idea of a literal 'nothing'. It literally means no-thing. As soon as you even speak about it, you invoke a 'something' by your speech. If it were truly nothing, you couldn't even refer to it. It doesn't exist, or else it's not 'nothing'.

So, we have reason to believe that existence never involved a 'state of nothingness', as classically defined. That's always the difference between science and philosophy, and while I appreciate philosophy a great deal...it ultimately only serves as a useful tool, but one that science ultimately determines.


Btodd

 

[AV1611VET]

I took that as being exactly the point...nothing is not literally nothing. I've still never seen a coherent idea put forth that would establish the idea of a literal 'nothing'. It literally means no-thing. As soon as you even speak about it, you invoke a 'something' by your speech. If it were truly nothing, you couldn't even refer to it. It doesn't exist, or else it's not 'nothing'.

So, we have reason to believe that existence never involved a 'state of nothingness', as classically defined. That's always the difference between science and philosophy, and while I appreciate philosophy a great deal...it ultimately only serves as a useful tool, but one that science ultimately determines.


Btodd


Btodd

That's a major point of creationism; that God created the continuum.

In the beginning = time

God created the heaven = space

And the earth = mass

 

[Davian]

I've seen it. I'm not impressed. IMO he's falling for the oldest trick in the book, the belief that one can get "something for nothing". IMO it's absurd. The laws of physics insist that energy cannot be *CREATED* nor destroyed, in can only change forms.

Where in the video does he say otherwise?

Whatever energy exists today has existed for eternity in one form or another.

What energy? As explained in the video, the sum of the energy in the universe appears to be zero.

 

[sfs]

I'm jealous, as I would love to meet him. But to address one part of what you said, isn't the whole point that there's no reason to assume that absolutely nothing ever existed in the first place; that our conception of the idea is inherently flawed? I find the concept of 'nothing' to be self-refuting in a sense, so perhaps all that ever existed was this quantum state, and Big Bangs have been occurring into the infinite past.

That's a perfectly reasonable possibility. My point is just that I think it would be better described as a universe that has always existed (and of which our local matter-filled space is an infinitesimal part), rather than as a universe from nothing.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

I've watched this video 2-3x over the last year and looking forward to reading his book.

For those of you in So. Cal., he's going to be speaking at Cal Tech in Pasadena on Sunday at 2pm.