A truthful post

[circa02]

Hi guys, I stumbled apon this post on another message board, and I was so blown away by the shear ernestness and humility that I wanted to share it here. I already asked the auther for his permission, so here it is.




Please read. If you get bored skip to the end.
What do I label myself? Why do I feel the need to. I do. People all want to belong to something. If I say I am a Christian, then I label myself in a category that Hitler was a part of, in those hate groups. If I say I an agnostic, then I label myself among the ranks (of people I know) whom value their own intellectual ego more than their own heart.
I used see someone saying "Jesus loves you" and think to myself, what a ignorant whacko.

But think about that idea for a second...someone loves you. I actually rejected that idea, even was offended. Why would anyone not want to be loved?

The only man who can conquer the debate on the existence of God, is the man who is debating it.



Life is difficult.

I was told by others growing up the to deny God means I will burn in Hell and that the only way I can get to Heaven is to follow him. Then I was told by others that the people who told me about God were wrong. Then I was told by the first people that the people who told me that they were wrong, were actually wrong themselves.

I want to be right; I think everyone does. I hope that counts for something. Who would want to be wrong? I've come to believe things and then disbelieve them. And then believe something different. It is odd, that you are never aware of things you aren't aware of. I didn't know, that I didn't know. Nuclear physics...I know that I know nothing about that. But there is so much that I don't know.

I grew up surrounded by Christians. I called myself one. And then I stopped calling myself one. I didn't refute it; I just stopped calling myself one. Everyone wanted to convert me; and it frustrated me because I thought they just wanted me to help bolster their faith by agreeing with them. Christians and Atheists alike. Why do Christians tell people they will burn in Hell if they don't believe? Why do atheists like to pick apart people's faith...perhaps that means they value faith still?

I'm a college student. The more I've learned, the more I have learned things I didn't even know I didn't know. There's so much evidence to support everyone's claim. I would get angry at it, angry at atheists for appearing so smug and arrogant in their "look, I'm smart and I am going to pick apart something that used to make you feel safer to die..." I would get angry when I saw Christians on the street corner yelling about Hell...then one of them told the mother of a murdered gay guy, that her son was in Hell.

I was raised with friends who weren't Christians. Good ones. I considered them good people. I always tried to have good intentions. Scott's a good guy--I don't want him to go to Hell. I don't want anyone to go to Hell. I don't want the billions of people who aren't in the correct religion, whatevet it is, to go to Hell. I don't want atheists to go to Hell or Jews or Muslims or Buddhists or Christians. But I don't have to think about that, it's not my decision.

HERE is the question I earnestly ask...in italics and bold and underline...

How do you want something?

How? People tell me what is good. I want to want it. Think of how easy life would be. Study hard in school and you will do well. I want to love to study. But I don't. I want to want the right way, and I want to know it.

God, whoever you are and whoever I conceive you to be, you sure left us with a lot of questions? What do I say about evolution. How can there not be time? Which religion is right? Who's going to Hell, if there is one.

You left me with all these questions and even more answers...

And I just don't know.

Now I'll tell you...I'll confess to you. I was raised Christian, my family is non-denominational, but some members were Baptist and what you might call rednecks, and others aren't. I wanted to have good intentions, if there was a God, I was going to look for him. I was going to try.

When I was in Church, I never felt that "Holy Spirit." I saw people shamelessly raising their hands and their voices high as people sang in the church while I basically just read what was on the page. I never felt that fearlessness of devotion to something higher than myself.

How do I believe? How can I truly believe, not because of what other people tell me, but because it is MY choice and my faith. What if I was born in Africa or something? What if I was born Jewish? How do I make the right choice? Why would God let his word be so twisted and translated...how can I be sure it's right? There are some things in the Bible that I feel that God wouldn't want me to accept.

It's just me and God then...no one else. He can speak to me how he wants; let him do that.

If the athesists are right, then it seems to me there's no point. Why have morals--what about them makes you feel good--is it just society's influence, and where did a conscience come from? Where did electrons and gas that sparked the big bang come from? The more I learned in college, the more knowledge I acquired, the harder it was to believe in something good in this world. Maybe that's why it says he who increases knowledge, increases sorrow.

If the Christians are right, then it seems to me there's no point. What's done is done, let's lay back thank the Lord and go to Heaven. Why spend all the time telling people they are going to Hell...man that's so sad, let's at least let them enjoy the time they have.


I always wanted to be a father. Still do. I'll admit, even intellectually the story always appealed to me, all the love and the irony. How ironic that a carpenter was put to death on wood and tools, which he had used his whole life. And he somehow bypassed something by being born from a virgin. And he dies so the rest of us live. It's almost mathematical. Even if God were to open up my ceiling and come down and in a huge voice tell me, "Actually, that didn't happen..." I would still smile and say, well, it's a nice story. I'll tell you all what though, if my son is perfect and a bunch of *******s want to kill him, I wouldn't let them. Look at my baby...he's perfect...he didn't want any harm to anyone and look at this. I just think that is the hardest thing for a father to do. I'm told God is unchanging...but...man...if that all did happen like some people tell me, ...man...that must have hurt God to watch all that. Why didn't he just make it a hanging or something or a beheading...he had to set there for hours and just watch his son slowly DIE. I don't care if you are the creator of the universe, to be able to do that is either cruel or extremely loving.

Is it wrong to be unsure about who or what God is? Can we all at least say, that none of us can be absolutely sure? I think we can...each side claims the idea of faith...so can we at least agree that no one can know for certain, only believe.

For the longest time I didn't believe. Well, in the Christian Hell-fire God at least. I guess you could call it agnostiscm.(sp?) There's so many things against us. You know, it is convienent to believe in something happy. I'll give you that. And I'm not the most brilliant person, so yeah it is convenient to point at some old book that could have been tampered with.
So many questions and I just wanted to be on the right path. They tell you to search and open your heart and you will find God. I'd done that my whole life and I hadn't really found anything. I saw people who were so ignorant...Christians and atheists. One day I just said finally, All right God, I don't know what to believe. But I know I want to, whatever is the right way, the way you want me to believe, I want to. Stick out your hand and I'll grab it, but YOU have to stick out your hand, other people can't.

I got back from the movie and sat in my car. And then I wept. These last couple months I'd been kind of coming back to MY faith...because it is mine. It's nothing like the doctrinations of other religions or atheism.

I sat there just crying and I didn't know why. I'm a writer--I'm SUPPOSED to be able to describe even the most subtle idea or concept. I can only tell you that idea of just being loved, it's not sad or happy, it's just tears. Think about someone, who just loved you unconditionally. There's no WHY to it. There's no emotions or chemicals in the brain. They just do.

And I felt it. My brain didn't know what to think of it. Perhaps it was just my chemicals making me cry. No. No it wasn't. It was that idea...that something could love me. Just stop reading and think about it. In your chair, pull yourself out. Even if there is no God, think about the idea, please I beg you, think about the idea of something loving you. That's it. If you really FEEL that idea, the weight of it...is just brings you to your knees. I don't believe anyone can argue that to feel truly loved, is something bad. I mean that FEELING, it's so fleeting and so powerful. Is that what the Christians are talking about?

Oh ****. And then I believed. It just fit. Something loves me. Even though I believe, sometimes I just can't believe God would even bother coming down here to save us all. Look at the news--for Christ's sake. There's war and rape...it's all so ugly sometimes.

 

[circa02]

Continued...

And something came else after that feeling. It was sadness. Maybe it was guilt at not being worthy...you ever been loved by a woman or a parent and you just didn't deserve it. I don't know. And there was something else too...it felt so good to feel what I felt, to believe it...I wanted to go to everyone in the world and make them believe. Not because I'm right, just because it feels so nice...I finally understand something I didn't before. I wanted to grab the quote unquote non-believers (everyone else in the planet besides me) and slam their head into a wall and say Believe! Believe! You must, come on!.

But that won't work. What does that mean if I want you to believe. Does it mean my faith isn't strong enough and there's safety in numbers.

What a crazy world we live in. Everyone wants everyone to know the truth. I want you to know it. I want to somehow make you believe, or what's the word...convert. Religion has caused so much war, and so I believe in Christ, and how I conceive him, not because of anyone but what I think God is sending to me.



I see myself becoming something I used to look at with almost an intellectual disgust. If everything is ordained, then what is free-will? I suppose if God were to show up at your doorstep, all white and blinding, you wouldn't have any choice but to believe him. Maybe all this vagueness and uncertainty is just free will. But Why even pray? What about good people who aren't exactly Christian. They go to Hell? Non-Christians ask me this, I don't know. I simply don't f'ing know. From now on I'll tell them to ask God.

To defend atheists/agnostic - Sure, some of them are arrogant intellectuals. But most of the ones I know are just too ****** compassionate. They just don't want to accept Hell, not so much for themselves, but for everyone else. They look at all the feuding religions claiming everyone else is going to Hell, and they say, "Well that doesn't seem fair. Why would I want to believe in a cruel God that does that". I don't blame them for that...I don't want to accept it. But it's not my problem--I don't believe in a God that does that either. Ironically, I bet if there was no mention of Hell, you would have a lot less atheists/agnostics.

To defend Christians - Ok nonchristians, read this too, this is important. I want you to say this to yourself a few times. "Whether they are right or wrong, some Christians truly believe to themselves, that people who aren't Christians are going to Hell." They believe that, that is a fact. Some Christians believe that. We can agree on that right, whether it's true or not. So you have these people thinking one thing, walking to your door, and in their heart, they think they are saving you. Stop and at least give them a little credit, they are trying to help, in their own way, a total stranger. Man, some people in the Bible got it easy though, God appears in some huge dream or from the sky. But at the same time, those people were being used by God to get a point across, so they weren't like the rest of us.

To Defend anyone who condemns anyone's ideas/lifestyles. I'll use an example. Homosexuality, and people who fit in that category, feel free to comment. Personally, you can live how you want. You aren't doing really any harm, you don't infringe on my life, I won't infringe on you. And statiscally speaking, the more gay men there are in the world, the less competition there is for the women for us straight men. BUT the point is, I think when people are asked a question, "Is homosexuality evil," the people who are asked are afraid that God is going to ask them later, "Why didn't you act and condemn this evil practice...why didn't you speak up?" I don't think everyone who condemns homosexuality literally hates it, they are just afraid God is going to codemn them for not condemning gays. Personally, I follow the idea Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged. Therefore, if I don't judge gays, I can't be judged for not judging gays. That's between you and God, not me, I have enough questions I'm trying to answer.


Man, whatever happened to the idea "you catch more flies with honey" I bet Jesus looks at some Christians who trying to convert people by threatening them and he's got his hand on his face and is shaking his head going, "Oh man...this is not what I had intended"

If you think about everything the bible says, Christianity really does have very few FOLLOWERS* Judge not lest ye be judged...Love thy Neighbor...okay then...that takes care about mostly every one.


I can't make you believe. No matter how eloquent I am or how convincing my flow of logic (or lack thereof) is. Even my honesty can't convince you. You might see an inkling of truth here, but even if I somehow hit the nail (that has new meaning now) on the head, it doesn't mean you'll accept it. I simply can't do it and that makes me sad. Love even your enemies, for if you love those who love you, what good comes from that? Man it make sense--I think all the atheists who are compassionate can agree with that statement. I feel like I'm on some drug, I want to buy you all a drink or something and the tabs on me. Let's not argue, let's just celebrate...but I can't make you believe or make you even want to believe. Even if I put the answer plain view, it's like putting the answer to a giagantic calculus equation. Okay...now what? I don't get it, that doesn't make sense.

Here is what I would ask. I'm not going to ask you to open up a bible or go to church or even to pray. I would ask this of those who consider themselves devout Christians and those who consider themselves compassionate, intellectual nonchristians, I would ask you this: Just look. Keep an eye open. Don't shut your heart and your mind and say, we'll, I'm right and comfortable. Look for God. Even if you're Christian. When you are driving home or waiting for the bus or watching television and a commerical comes on, when you are in the shower or on the toilet. Just look for him, her, it, whatever. However you conceive him to be, try to at least be on some terms of peace with him. Pick up the quran, the kablar, The Origin of Species, (darwin was a christian by the way, he said evolution was a testament to some divine origin/plan, so stop bashing him) pick up everything and try to root out what you think God may be. Just keep your eye open, and if anyone actually read this all, then, well, just remember this mindset.

Here is the question I would ask, and I suppose it is fair if you can't answer it, because I can't answer some questions about what would I do if I knew God didn't exist. If God showed up, whatever he looks like or sounded like, just imagine to yourself that he showed up. And he put out his hand and he said he loved you. Would you grab it? There was a time when I would have said, No, no I don't believe, I refust to, I'm angry, look at all this pain and suffering in the world, why would you do that? Why would you leave us all alone?

We are all so stubborn, I used to refute the question--well that wouldn't happen, God wouldn't come down like that or whatever. Amazing that I simply couldn't answer the question I was so angry.

It's you and God. That's it. Don't listen to anybody but your heart. Block out every single influence in the world, even the religious ones. Block them ALL out. Block EVERYTHING else out. Meditate on it almost. And just say to god, however you conceive him to be,

"Allright big man, I'm gonna try. I don't know if I'll make the right choice, but I'm gonna try. I'm not going to listen to anyone who speaks in this world, the priests, nobody. Nobody but you. God if you want me, you can have me, I'm going to start looking, so start showing yourself."

It ain't all bells n whistles. You feel cold still. And lonely. And unsure. Just keep looking and don't close your heart and your mind. Or your soul.

Now Christians are going to start saying, Oh welcome to our club, I'm so happy for you. Well, thanks I guess, but I am not in your club, YOUR in your club. I'm just making peace with God. Don't be arrogant or self-righteous. And the atheists/agnostics are going to say, how convenient that it is so simple. Screw you, it ain't simple, this is the hardest question I've ever attempted after years and years of trying, and I still am not sure of everything. The only thing that is simple is what I what a feel, but isn't love simple? Who do you love?

 

[Blessed-one]

Screw you, it ain't simple, this is the hardest question I've ever attempted after years and years of trying, and I still am not sure of everything. The only thing that is simple is what I what a feel, but isn't love simple? Who do you love?

as simple as that.
thanks for the posts, circa02. Helps in the confusion of things..

 

[cyberwood]

Friend, thank you - only the Lord knows what's in my heart...

 

[repentandbelieve]

Thanks for the post circa02. It was written from the heart of a "good hearted" person desiring to know the truth.

Doubt and skepticism of the infallability of the bible, coupled by witnessing from Christians who failed to represent the love of God as it should be, have caused this person to have reservations about accepting Jesus.

Between the lines one can tell that this person has a love for the truth and desires to know it. IMHO whats lacking is trust.

In response to his question "how do you want something ?" I would like to say this. It begins with "Inspiration". In other words we get inspired by spirits.

In your search for the truth God will speak to you through His Holy Spirit. Along with this, you will also be spoken to with other "familiar spirits". Pray for discernment.

Know that the desire in your heart to know the truth about God has been put there by God. It is a gift from God. Thank God for it, you've been blessed not everyone has recieved it. Rejoice, the love for the truth and desire to know God has been placed in your heart by God. It has come to you by "inspiration" by way of His Holy Spirit.

May the Holy Spirit guide you as you search for the truth. And by Gods grace may you have discernment. The gift of discernment is miracuously given to those who accept Jesus as their shepherd and trust in what He says about His sheep knowing His voice.


Rejoice, for God knows the sincerity of your heart. God is faithful in keeping His promises. God promises to reveal Himself to all who seek Him with sincerity.

Seek peace with God by becoming aquainted with Him through His Word. This is how God has chosen to reveal His character to man. You don't have to believe in what the preacher or someone else says about God. But you must trust in Gods word. It's another gift He has given you as a means to come to know Him. Trust in His Word and pray for His Holy Spirit to guide you.

 

[WeakButHopeful]

 

[circa02]

WeakButHopeful, "I" did not say anything, I merely posted a message written by another.

 

[WeakButHopeful]

I now see the top of the post clearly says that, I must have forgotten who was speaking by the time I got to the end. Sorry. I have deleted my reply.