A tough decision. Please help

[SirKenin]

Ok, here's the deal. I've never asked for advice on this before...So go easy on me. To me this seems like a virtually insurmountable task. Please only respond if you have had similar experiences or the gift of discernment. Most importantly, please don't judge and don't offer me your lifestyle choices. My lifestyle is very likely not the same as yours, in ways you can't even imagine.

Ok. So.. Here goes.

I was living with a girl for about eight months when things sort of went to hell in a handbasket. During this time winter came around, and as soon as winter hit, her mood hit the floor. It took everything I had to support her through her depressions. They were so bad that she couldn't stop crying or get off the couch. I would help her by making rapid adjustments to her medications to combat the suffering (I hated to see her suffer). Oh, and trust me, I can make the changes, they were backed by a qualified psychiatrist.

So, she was struggling with mental stability.

Then there was the issue of deep rooted psychological issues. She had a very negative marriage two years ago and spent the last two years "dealing" with this problem. The problem is, though, that she never dealt with it. She buried it as deep as she could get it. Well, I think you can imagine where this is going.

I would make an error in judgement (we all do) and she would hit the roof. The first time she threatened to leave. The second two times she actually did. What happened was that each of these little incidents, although certainly of no major significance and easily addressable in and of themselves, triggered a deep rooted memory in my pet.

The third issue I can't address here, but there was another seriously troubling issue that occured on a fairly regular basis. I question whether this issue can ever be resolved, as I link it to a behaviour problem coupled with the mood disorder. Currently I am testing those waters at her request, but I suspect that is merely because she is on her best behaviour so she can have a second chance.

Anyways, the final time pet left, she didn't come back, is what this all boils down to, at least this part anyways. She grabbed a few things and hopped the bus to her mothers two hours away.

It's too bad really. I loved her unconditionally. I gave of myself all I had. What's mine was hers.. I gave her the Caddy, the house, everything in it. We live in the city, so there was plenty to do. She moved out in the middle of nowhere with her mother. No car, no computer, no conveniences of any kind except satellite TV. I'm sure you can imagine what's coming next.

But wait, there's more. Let's make this complicated.

In the meantime a very beautiful, sweet lady comes along. We have liked each other for a while but never thought anything would happen. We chat a little bit and as we are (now) both single decide to go out on a date. Well, it took off like wild fire. We have decided to take it very slow, which you have to do if you want to learn to love someone.

Now, reenter my pet into the picture. She's decided that not only would she eventually like a second chance, she wants me to rescue her from her mothers place and allow her to return here. She would occupy a spare bedroom and be my friend.

Hmmm. Sooo. She wants reconciliation, and in the meantime she wants to live in my house. As if that isn't the dilemna of the century.

I really like this lady I'm dating now. She's smart, pretty, kind, gentle, meek, submissive, sexy, has her own job and car, treats me good, is doing in other areas I require.

I've decided that she's the lady I want to pursue..

Now, I have a pet that has voiced that she will not pursue another man, that I was the one for her and I was her soulmate. Yes, I really am that nice a person and I really did treat her like a queen. That's the way I am. Kind and compassionate. She has said if I want to move on that I can. Most certainly I would with or without her permission.

However.. We must eventually come to the punchline. What do I do about her wanting to come back here? Her things are still here. What about staying over night while she visits the doctor here (there isn't a psychiatrist with this kind of intimate knowledge of the disorder where she lives)? I'm rather worried how this might affect my new found interest.

I'm worried about burning the bridge with my pet to be honest.. What happens if reconciliation is in the cards and this thing with my current interest doesn't work out? I know... I've been told I can't do that... But what do you all think of this whole mess?

 

[Ceris]

Hi drfeelgood,

I do not have much advice to offer on this matter as others are far more experienced in such things than I, but I will offer this one bit:

All things aside, I truly believe that for this woman to move back in will only serve to complicate matters even further. For that (and other reasons), I would highly suggest that she not move back in with you.

I hope you find the advice you seek.

God Bless,
Ceris

 

[ScarletRubies]

Hi. Not sure if I meet the qualifications you ask for, but I offer this opinion/advice with the very best of intentions.

I really believe in settling one relationship before entering another. So, in that vein, I would think that the wisest thing to do would be to resolve the matter of your ex (not sure what pet might mean?) before continuing this new relationship.

You said you didn't want to burn your bridges in case things don't work out with your new girlfriend. I guess that's the bottom line of it all, and a decision no-one else can make for you. I personally believe that love is a choice, that once we make a commitment to another, we will honour that and work through difficult times (which you've clearly had) regardless of our feelings.

That isn't easy, and the struggles you've faced are very serious and painful. I guess the choices we make in difficulty are more telling of our integrity, wisdom and love than those choices we make in times of ease. My very best advice is that you take this matter to the Lord, and wait. I am not a patient waiter myself, but my own experiences have shown me that in important decisions, God will show me 3 clear confirmations of that decision. Seeking them from others doesn't help, and seeking to rush God has never proved successful for me, either!

God bless you! Oh, I have had the 23rd Psalm "playing" through my mind the whole time I typed this - perhaps God would want to remind you that He's your shepherd.

Cheers,
Ruby

 

[Mr. Friendly]

I know what it is like to feel a level of commitment to an ex-girlfriend in your situation, but you need to back away and let her start a new life. It'd be selfish to continue to be an authority figure in her life. Pack up her stuff and take it out to the mother's place. You know she wouldn't be stable enough make it on her own in the city, so this is for the best and at least she has her mother to help her.

For love and future, you need to focus on the woman you are currently seeing. You have picked her and so you need to set the ex-girlfriend free. Like it or not, you already made your decision by starting a new relationship instead of chasing after your unstable ex-girlfriend. I know what it is like to want to "do more" but you would not be able to give enough to solve her problems, so you are only absolving your guilt at the cost of giving the ex-girlfriend confusing false hopes.

 

[mostie]

Your 'pet'? Or is it my computer screen and im seeing it wrong- I wouldn't be surprised, this thing is old and ratty-lol.

First of all, if she has some mood disorders, etc.- my guess is that's what's behind her leaving to begin with-you seem to have been alright dealing with the issues that she had while she was there, so that doesn't seem to be the issue- although it looks like from what you said up there, that life with her is going to be- and was - an emotional rollercoaster for you both. And since she left, you've become involved with this other person, and have decided that you want to be with the new one.

I think that if I were you, I wouldn't let the other one move back in, spare bedroom or not- it's going to put her right back into your sphere, and you'll eventually be right back where you started with her-being in the same house will give her some major leverage, and it would be hard not to pick right back up where you two were, considering that she lived with you for 8 months--and there's no way to explain this to your new interest- she will take it as you not having closure on this past relationship, i.e. things left undone that need to be worked through- and it's only going to destabilize whatever it is you have with this new person. The other girl, you need to just leave it alone, I think (just my opinion). There could be some co-dependency issues here, which is what it sounds like on her part- and you're going to fall right back into it if you let her stay with you. She's home with her mother, you probably should let her stay there and get on with your life- unless you still have feelings for her.

Ah....what a dilemma this all is-lol

 

[SirKenin]

Yes, my pet.. That's what I call her.. lol

Anyways, I told her today that she can not come back, that it would conflict with my new interest and cause potential problems. I explained that I would not allow that to happen. She put up a fight, however, and insisted that she was moving down. I didn't love her, I wasn't supporting her, I didn't care about her, that I should be helping her out. blah blah blah. WELL. I'm certainly not going to put up with that nonsense. It is my duty to not simply kick her to the curb, that I accept. However, I feel that it is also my responsibility to teach her responsibility and accept the consequences of her own actions (don't ask). If I keep bailing her out, how am I to be helping her? If she keeps running, she'll continue to jump out of the pot and into the fire. She ran away from here, just to end up in a worse position where she is. If she runs again, who's to say it won't just get worse?

She did ask for a second chance as well. I feel that I have been more than good to her. I treated her like a queen and she ran away rather than communicate. I don't see where I'm obligated to give her another chance (a third chance it will be). I really like this new girl. That is the path I have chosen after careful deliberation and she's just going to have to learn to like it. Pet asked if I was trying to hurt her, because she was hurt. Yeah, like I go out of my way to hurt people and hear them cry.. Believe me, it tears me apart when she cries, but ultimately I have to do what makes me happy and certainly that's my perogative. Moving away from me was all about her by her own admission. Ok, that's fine. That's her perogative. However, that's where her rights to me and the connection ends (she tried to convince me that I was cheating on her by having a new interest. HA!! That's a new one). The ball is now in my court and I have made my decision. She's just going to have to learn to accept it.

I am not a seer. I don't know what the future holds. Perhaps she'll get her act together, we'll both be single, and reconciliation may be possible. Who knows? I know I'm concerned about burning the bridge, as I always like to keep my options open, but I suppose if I have to I must. Ultimately this is my life, this is my decision, this is my course, and for better or for worse that's the end of it. It's not open to deliberation between us.

I really appreciate the advice. It really helped.

Just for fun, I'll add a picture of the lady I'm seeing now.

 

[Saviot'Valuan]

I think you made the right decision.

My mother suffered from depression, a severe case. It destroyed her marriage, and put my sister and myself through some rough times.

 

[SirKenin]

Thank you for the encouragement I sure hope I did. I can tell you was very difficult to deal with. I was able to make it, but it took a lot out of me.

 

[InTheFlame]

One thing I will add... (sorry if this is too blunt ) Something INSIDE YOU attracted you to someone very bruised and hurt by life. It's a need - or several needs - that caused you to get into a relationship you should've known was a bad idea. It will cause you to muck up your current relationship too - unless you work out what was going on to cause you to invest so much in the past relationship, and stop your unhealthy relating patterns.

My guess would be, you like to feel needed... that you like to heal, to bring someone into your life and feel as though you're helping them through their problems. But it doesn't work... like with your previous relationship, it's only temporary and might even leave the person worse than they started out.

(I could be completely wrong, of course)

My advice is to either go to counselling yourself, to sort this out - or do some reading. Some good books I can recommend are Boundaries (Cloud & Townsend), Boundaries in Dating (also Cloud & Townsend), Love Must Be Tough (Dobson) and The Road Less Traveled (Peck).

 

[SirKenin]

I hear what you are saying, but she was fine when I met her. I met her in the summer during her high, and she was awesome to be with. We went on some great dates and she treated me very well. I did not know that she was having any family, health or psychological issues.

However, as winter struck things went downhill in a heck of a hurry. Suddenly the tide changed and I was faced with deep trouble. Rather than give up on her I decided I was going to help her out. Unfortunately it ended badly.

Now she wants a second chance, but I won't give it to her as I said. I've had enough of that.

 

[InTheFlame]

I hear what you are saying, but she was fine when I met her.

But you said -

Then there was the issue of deep rooted psychological issues. She had a very negative marriage two years ago and spent the last two years "dealing" with this problem. The problem is, though, that she never dealt with it. She buried it as deep as she could get it. Well, I think you can imagine where this is going.

I met her in the summer during her high, and she was awesome to be with. We went on some great dates and she treated me very well. I did not know that she was having any family, health or psychological issues.

That's known as the 'honeymoon period' or 'best behaviour time'. There are always telltale signs - even if you don't recognise them. And the fact that you didn't see anything wrong bugs me a little, considering all the issues she apparently had at this time. See, there's psych disorders, and there are issues with one's past. They often intertwine, true. But if she wasn't showing any 'symptoms' there shouldn't have had any 'issues' to deal with. I stand by my statement - something inside you, subconsciously maybe, was attracted to a bruised, hurting person.

Now she wants a second chance, but I won't give it to her as I said. I've had enough of that.

That's your choice, of course. But it was NOT all her fault. What I'm saying is, recognise your own part in the tragedy and deal with it. Don't assume that there isn't anything in you that doesn't need healing in some way, because everyone's got dodgy ways of relating to others that could do with some work - otherwise the world would be a much better place!

 

[Cordy]

Hey drfeelgood,

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe I recall that you said don’t believe you require a legal marriage or a ceremony to consider yourself married, but you believe that living with a woman is marriage. From past discussions with you, I am under the impression that you were, or at least planning, to be considered “married” by simply living with this first woman quite a while ago.

Did you consider yourself married to her under your definition of marriage? I am simply wondering, because I think that might change the perspective to your issue.

 

[SirKenin]

But you said -
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That's known as the 'honeymoon period' or 'best behaviour time'. There are always telltale signs - even if you don't recognise them. And the fact that you didn't see anything wrong bugs me a little, considering all the issues she apparently had at this time. See, there's psych disorders, and there are issues with one's past. They often intertwine, true. But if she wasn't showing any 'symptoms' there shouldn't have had any 'issues' to deal with. I stand by my statement - something inside you, subconsciously maybe, was attracted to a bruised, hurting person.


That's your choice, of course. But it was NOT all her fault. What I'm saying is, recognise your own part in the tragedy and deal with it. Don't assume that there isn't anything in you that doesn't need healing in some way, because everyone's got dodgy ways of relating to others that could do with some work - otherwise the world would be a much better place!

I don't think you understand bipolar disorder very well, to be honest with you. I have it, so I understand it intimately, to the very utmost last detail. She even fooled me. None of the telltale signs of mania, so she was only in a hypomanic state. This is the time that everyone wants to be with a bipolar person. They are fun to be with, with radiant personalities. To the average person, they would think this was a personality trait. Indeed, you can only diagnose bipolar II's with a full case history, demonstrating distinct cycles, usually twice a year. It was impossible for me to know that she was bipolar with the limited data available to me.

As for the psychological problems, again you don't understand their nature. They didn't haunt her or become apparent until something triggered them. During the initial months of our relationship, nothing triggered them. She was able to keep them successfully under wraps. Nothing about her personality indicated a problem, possibly because she was in a hypomanic state and didn't have a care in the world. It wasn't until I made an error in judgement that she would snap, having a memory brought back from the days of her husband.

Her children appeared to be in a stable environment. They were all living together with her mother, the four of them in the same house. Everything was under control, and nothing happened until several months into the relationship. I'm not going to explain any details, but you really have no idea. It was a sudden thing, exacerbated by an onslaught of depression.

I know what you are trying to say.. I have heard this before. Believe me, the concept is nothing new to me. However, should you be privy to all the details you would understand where I'm coming from. I played no part in the problem, as I've been stablized for at least a year, with only minor fluctuations. I'm not attracted to trouble. I have no use for it. It certainly has a way of finding me however and I fell for it. If anything, THAT's the problem. I have a good idea how to prevent it from reoccuring.

 

[SirKenin]

Hey drfeelgood,

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe I recall that you said don’t believe you require a legal marriage or a ceremony to consider yourself married, but you believe that living with a woman is marriage. From past discussions with you, I am under the impression that you were, or at least planning, to be considered “married” by simply living with this first woman quite a while ago.

Did you consider yourself married to her under your definition of marriage? I am simply wondering, because I think that might change the perspective to your issue.

Yes, I did. When you are living together in Canada, you are common law married. I'm interested, then, on your take on the issue. Very interested. (oh, and she was a non-believer, but please, I would really like you to share)

 

[InTheFlame]

I don't think you understand bipolar disorder very well, to be honest with you.

First, you didn't say she had bipolar. That would make it a bit hard to work out, from my replies, whether I understood it or not.

As for the psychological problems, again you don't understand their nature.

Second, psychological problems, where they are caused by past experiences, DO manifest themselves. Sometimes very subtly, but they manifest themselves. Please understand, I'm not saying you're a bad person or completely in the wrong, or even that you should've known better. But attraction is a very subtle thing too, and it works on little signs that we often completely miss with our conscious minds.

I know what you are trying to say.. I have heard this before. Believe me, the concept is nothing new to me. However, should you be privy to all the details you would understand where I'm coming from. I played no part in the problem, as I've been stablized for at least a year, with only minor fluctuations. I'm not attracted to trouble. I have no use for it. It certainly has a way of finding me however and I fell for it. If anything, THAT's the problem. I have a good idea how to prevent it from reoccuring.

If nothing else, you seemed to make a very quick, very deep emotional connection to this girl (unless I've misunderstood the timeline). It sounds as though, if nothing else, you played a part in the problem by not guarding your heart and being careful about who you gave it to. Have you considered this in your solution to preventing it reoccuring?

I'm sorry if this sounds as though I'm attacking you. It's not meant that way. I DO want you to be sure you won't repeat any mistakes you made. Or think of it this way - what lessons have you learnt that you can apply to your life?

 

[SirKenin]

I agree that I didn't protect my heart. I definitely can't argue that. Neither can I argue that we didn't move too quickly. Indeed we did. Further, I have discovered that anything that comes to you has a reason for doing so, and avoid it like the plague. The problem is, I have a personality and looks that attracts women as well as the ease with which they can communicate with me, so I have to use discernment I suppose, but this one was really tricky. I was caught totally off guard evidently.

These things I can say I learned from this relationship.

I definitely did miss any signs that existed, if they were there. Everything seemed awesome until winter hit, and it just disintegrated.

I don't look at you as attacking me at all, btw. I look at you as trying to help, and it's much appreciated. It's exactly what I asked for.

 

[Cordy]

I am Canadian, too.

I happen to disagree with you. Common law relationships are indeed legally recognized relationships, but they are not recognized as legal marriage. Marriage in our country is not the same as common law relationships. Aside from that, you must be cohabiting with someone for a certain period of time to be considered in a common-law relationship. I believe I have read that in Ontario, where I think you are, that time period is 3 years, or if you have biological or adopted children together. Since you have only lived with this woman for 8 months, and have not mentioned having children together, you are not considered in a common law relationship under the law.

I would like to note that I personally believe that even if you were considered in a common law relationships with this woman, I wouldn’t consider that marriage, because it is not marriage according to our society or government. And I wouldn’t, therefore, think you are bound to stay with her as though you are married. I would personally call it living in sin, and we are free and are actually called to leave sin. I am not trying to judge your person or motives or anything, but that is how I feel the Bible speaks on sex out of marriage (which is what I believe cohabitation is).

However, to you, if I recall correctly, the legal status of your relationships didn’t matter anyway. So the fact that you are not considered married by law, nor in a legally recognized common law relationships shouldn’t matter. For you, you thought that living together was therefore was sufficient. You considered and proclaimed yourself married, right?

In all honestly, it is difficult to say what I think you should do in your circumstances, because I don’t agree with your definition of marriage etc., and with much of the circumstances. So, the best I can think of relating to this is that you should be consistent. If you truly believe that you are married, then how could it be right for you to simply walk away?

I think you should honour your word. Although the law doesn’t consider you married, the fact that you made a commitment to “marry” her under your definition should mean that you should stick to that. You should treat it like marriage if you consider it marriage.

 

[SirKenin]

Really interesting mbams, and thanks very much for posting that.

Without getting into a lot of detail, I don't believe the Bible mandates a civil marriage. Actually, nowhere is the topic actually addressed, although it is mentioned that a few people in the Bible did get married. I think it's a matter of theological beliefs, and mine appear to differ from yours, which is fine. I see nothing wrong with that.

The Bible does however say that you should not live in violation of the Law of the land. In Canada, and certainly in Ontario where I'm from, common law marriage is not forbidden. Incidentally, under Ontario Family Law Rules, a common law marriage is accorded essentially the same status as a civil marriage in much less than three years, although the claim of the spouse is very limited. This I have personal experience with. Family Court is one place where I have a considerable amount of knowledge.

I didn't leave her, by the way. I'm not walking away from anything. She walked away from me and thus terminated the relationship. It is my duty to not just kick her to the curb, and certainly I haven't done that, but I don't feel bound to accept her back. She made her bed, now she must lie in it.

Anyways, my eyes are very heavy, so I'm going to go to bed. I will reread your post in the morning so I can address that which I might have missed. It was a good post. Thanks.

 

[Cordy]

This thread has me wondering a few things, drfeelgood. I hope you don’t mind me inquiring.

If you really truly believed this woman to be your wife, why do you not call her that? You have chosen to call her a girl, and pet, but not your wife.

You have also refrained from corrected other posters when they referred to her as your girlfriend. Such silence implies that she is, indeed, your girlfriend.

I am also wondering why you would post this in the courting couples board (which would imply that you are a courting couple), rather than the marriage board, if you consider this a marriage issue.

I am not trying to attack you, but I am really curious why you have chosen such a way to post this issue.

If I remember correctly, you have been previously married, as in legally married, before this last woman. If I recall correctly, that relationship ended badly, and I think she was supposed to have many bad problems, as well. Now this last relationships is ending badly, and you are entering another relationship rather quickly, it seems. I don’t know you at all on a personal level, but from what I see on this board, I just want to put out a caution sign for you. I would really encourage you to slow down and examine things.

I realize that you don’t feel there is anything wrong with marrying an unbeliever, and that you don’t think the term “unequally yoked” applies to marriage (as I recall). Aside from that passage, there are many other passages that teach us to model our marriages on Christian understandings, such as Christ and the Church. For marriages to work according to these passages, both people should be striving for these ideals. If you want someone to encourage your faith and build you up as the Bible asks, shouldn’t she be a believer as well? But aside from the idea that you don’t believe the Bible is telling we shouldn’t marry non-believers, don’t you think that common sense does? Don’t you think it is best to have someone who meets you on this crucial level?

I have a sense that you are not really one for convention. Neither am I in many ways, believe it or not - as in I don’t do something just because it is convention. I don’t, however, throw it out just because it is convention, either. I do wonder, however, if you enjoy being counter-conventional just to be counter-conventional sometimes. I personally think that is just as wrong as following convention just because it is convention. I just suspect that you may sometimes try to find ways to explain your way out of conventions that are actually established for a reason. I realize that getting married legally to a Christian woman with a cermony and everything after a reasonable dating and engagement period is pretty conventional for most Christians. But don’t you think that there is good reason for that convention? I am not trying to turn you into an right-wing fundie or anything (I am not one myself, and wouldn’t want to be considered one), but I just want to encourage you not to reject something because it is convention, or perhaps not to do things just because you think you can without breaking the law or going technically against God’s Word.

Those are just a few things I was thinking. I hope you don’t mind me sharing.

 

[a.alaniva]

why do u guys keep arguing with him? sounds like he just wants advice, not to argue.