A Swimmer's Ear

[iambren]

Yesterday I attended a conference, stayed at a motel with a pool, so last night I had the whole pool to myself. So I talk with God and lend Him an ear if He wants to speak to me in any way esp re recent divorce. What do you believe He would say to me in my condition:

I've been married for 15 years up to this July when we dissolved our marriage. I requested the dissolution. We both claimed Christ as our savior pre-marriage. We had 2 children together.

Shortly after the wedding she began denying sex; we went long stretches until she would give in but did not want me to touch her eg NO foreplay or intimate touch during sex. Why? She just said she didn't know, that I should not take it personally it had nothing to do with me. She made little effort to resolve this. We went to Christian counseling which was comforting but useless. Needless to say, or home often became tense. She would get angry at me,berate me and run me down. My questions became "Why do you hate me so much? Why did you marry me?". It wore on me and a few years ago I had a complete mental relapse, spent a week in the hospital, seperated,recuperated over 1 year.
When I saw her she would still reject me, ambiguously blames me, and takes no redemptive initiative. Exasperated I divorced.

I personally cannnot see a true Christian treating their mate this way. Christ says adultery is grounds. Paul talks of letting the unbelieving depart,yet she claims to be a Christian! Am I still married? Or do I swim in circles for ever?

 

[FaithfulWife]

I'm going to be as blunt and honest as I can whilst also being sensitive, okay--because I respect you too much to be anything less. In G-d's perfect plan, a man and a woman make a covenant to each other before G-d that is for their lifetime and unbreakable. They do not only say, "I promise to you" they also say "I promise to G-d and these folks here are the witness of my covenant." And iambren, G-d does not take covenants lightly. In fact, one thing you could do for fun and for yourself to become a better man and husband would be to study covenants in the bible--fulfilled ones and broken ones.

Anyway, in your instance I will be honest. We have no way of knowing if your wife is or is not a believing Christian. You know her better than anyone on the planet and you can't tell! So it's not our place to judge whether she's a believer or not. I can say that generally speaking I've seen that people who are really believers have a way of behaving that is focused on pleasing G-d and obeying Him--and that often will lead them to grow in righteousness. Yet I've also seen people who are truly believers who backslide, or who fall into sin and are too proud to admit their error, or who just succumb to their sin nature and temptations around them and then eventually come back! So based on the the idea that generally a true believer shows the fruit of the Spirit in their life...but not always...we can't tell.

That being the case, I'd say that in G-d's perfect plan for marriage, we would have sexual bliss and compatibility in our marriage beds! However, that is not a guarantee. In fact, if anything WE are the ones who screwed up G-d's perfect plan by admitting sin...not Him! G-d commanded husbands to love their wives. G-d commanded wives to respect their husbands. Her body is no longer hers, but yours; and your body is no longer yours but hers. We are to make ourselves available to one another so that we can help our mates avoid sexual sin and temptation. And yet, G-d would still not condone sexual sin if your spouse was not making them self available to you. Sin is sin, even if your spouse did it first! So to be completely honest, I don't think that lack of sexual fulfillment is a legitimate reason for divorce--understandable, yes, but legitimate, no.

So here's where you're at. I believe it's reasonable to say that a true believing spouse would eventually hear the Holy Spirit move in her life and convict her to respect her husband and learn to enjoy sexuality with him. It's clear there is just some issue or some ... something!... that she is just NOT willing to deal with!!! Therefore, although she may not be evidencing spiritual growth in that area, G-d doesn't release us from a covenant for that. Our lives are to bring glory to HIM and we are not guaranteed food, clothing, shelter, or good sex. If we obey G-d we are guaranteed that G-d will provide what we need, and we are also guaranteed that there is NO TEMPTATION that is not common to man that G-d can not give us the strength to overcome--including sexual frustration.

Sooo...by the law of the land you are dissolved. You no longer live together. She has hurt you over and over (and over and over) for years. Nothing personal but I'm sure there are things you've done that have hurt her over and over (speaking only from experience there, as that was the case with me). From all the evidence we see we can not tell if she is a Christian or not...and yet even after the divorce she says that she is and continues in church and Christian activities. So we can't really tell if that "let the unbeliever go and you're released" applies here. There was no adultery so we know that doesn't apply. And you made a covenant to the wife of your youth to be with her until your last breath. Note that nowhere does your covenant say: "...as long as we have mutually satisfying sex" or "...unless you have an issue you refuse to deal with" so it seems that really there may not be a reason for the covenant to be broken.

Thus, here is my suggestion to you. At this point who can tell? It's not up to us! But what I can say is that I would strongly (as in STRONGLY) suggest that you take this time to be separated from your wife and focus on you and on G-d. DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER DATING OTHER WOMEN. Here's why I suggest that. If you were to place your full focus and energy on G-d and getting to know Him and His personality and what pleases Him--you would grow spiritually. If you were to focus on going to your own counseling to face your own demons and work on your own issues, you might discover that there were things that really were YOU and not her. By doing these things you will become a better human, a more godly man, and a better husband. As you come closer and closer to G-d and more intimate with Him, I have faith that G-d will reveal to you on His own what He wants you to do and what He thinks you should have done. That ain't up to us--that's G-d's job and I would not DREAM of stepping in on Him! So focus. Don't look at "what she did"--focus on what you did and find out what G-d wants you to do instead. Become the man G-d created you to be. Become more godly. Grow in spiritual wisdom and maturity. REALLY STUDY G-d's word night and day...and I am confident He will tell you what His will is.

Faithfully telling it like it is,



~FaithfulWife

 

[iambren]

I'm going to be as blunt and honest as I can whilst also being sensitive, okay--because I respect you too much to be anything less. In G-d's perfect plan, a man and a woman make a covenant to each other before G-d that is for their lifetime and unbreakable. They do not only say, "I promise to you" they also say "I promise to G-d and these folks here are the witness of my covenant." And iambren, G-d does not take covenants lightly. In fact, one thing you could do for fun and for yourself to become a better man and husband would be to study covenants in the bible--fulfilled ones and broken ones.

Anyway, in your instance I will be honest. We have no way of knowing if your wife is or is not a believing Christian. You know her better than anyone on the planet and you can't tell! So it's not our place to judge whether she's a believer or not. I can say that generally speaking I've seen that people who are really believers have a way of behaving that is focused on pleasing G-d and obeying Him--and that often will lead them to grow in righteousness. Yet I've also seen people who are truly believers who backslide, or who fall into sin and are too proud to admit their error, or who just succumb to their sin nature and temptations around them and then eventually come back! So based on the the idea that generally a true believer shows the fruit of the Spirit in their life...but not always...we can't tell.

That being the case, I'd say that in G-d's perfect plan for marriage, we would have sexual bliss and compatibility in our marriage beds! However, that is not a guarantee. In fact, if anything WE are the ones who screwed up G-d's perfect plan by admitting sin...not Him! G-d commanded husbands to love their wives. G-d commanded wives to respect their husbands. Her body is no longer hers, but yours; and your body is no longer yours but hers. We are to make ourselves available to one another so that we can help our mates avoid sexual sin and temptation. And yet, G-d would still not condone sexual sin if your spouse was not making them self available to you. Sin is sin, even if your spouse did it first! So to be completely honest, I don't think that lack of sexual fulfillment is a legitimate reason for divorce--understandable, yes, but legitimate, no.

So here's where you're at. I believe it's reasonable to say that a true believing spouse would eventually hear the Holy Spirit move in her life and convict her to respect her husband and learn to enjoy sexuality with him. It's clear there is just some issue or some ... something!... that she is just NOT willing to deal with!!! Therefore, although she may not be evidencing spiritual growth in that area, G-d doesn't release us from a covenant for that. Our lives are to bring glory to HIM and we are not guaranteed food, clothing, shelter, or good sex. If we obey G-d we are guaranteed that G-d will provide what we need, and we are also guaranteed that there is NO TEMPTATION that is not common to man that G-d can not give us the strength to overcome--including sexual frustration.

Sooo...by the law of the land you are dissolved. You no longer live together. She has hurt you over and over (and over and over) for years. Nothing personal but I'm sure there are things you've done that have hurt her over and over (speaking only from experience there, as that was the case with me). From all the evidence we see we can not tell if she is a Christian or not...and yet even after the divorce she says that she is and continues in church and Christian activities. So we can't really tell if that "let the unbeliever go and you're released" applies here. There was no adultery so we know that doesn't apply. And you made a covenant to the wife of your youth to be with her until your last breath. Note that nowhere does your covenant say: "...as long as we have mutually satisfying sex" or "...unless you have an issue you refuse to deal with" so it seems that really there may not be a reason for the covenant to be broken.

Thus, here is my suggestion to you. At this point who can tell? It's not up to us! But what I can say is that I would strongly (as in STRONGLY) suggest that you take this time to be separated from your wife and focus on you and on G-d. DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER DATING OTHER WOMEN. Here's why I suggest that. If you were to place your full focus and energy on G-d and getting to know Him and His personality and what pleases Him--you would grow spiritually. If you were to focus on going to your own counseling to face your own demons and work on your own issues, you might discover that there were things that really were YOU and not her. By doing these things you will become a better human, a more godly man, and a better husband. As you come closer and closer to G-d and more intimate with Him, I have faith that G-d will reveal to you on His own what He wants you to do and what He thinks you should have done. That ain't up to us--that's G-d's job and I would not DREAM of stepping in on Him! So focus. Don't look at "what she did"--focus on what you did and find out what G-d wants you to do instead. Become the man G-d created you to be. Become more godly. Grow in spiritual wisdom and maturity. REALLY STUDY G-d's word night and day...and I am confident He will tell you what His will is.

Faithfully telling it like it is,



~FaithfulWife

Thank you FaithfulWife for your response. My walk with God is tight and I stay open to reproof if I need it (who can claim perfection as a marriage partner?) She uses blame,anger,denial,walking out of the room, and projection whenever I bring this up. Out side of this she is very pleasant and supportive as we raise our children. The explanation for this behavior over the marriage has been 1. "I don't know" 2. "It's your fault" 3. "It's a relational problem". All ambiguous stuff.

"It's clear there is just some issue or some ... something!... that she is just NOT willing to deal with!!! " RIGHT!

I met with her pastor-mentor she had as a teen up to now. When I said "I wonder if she is really saved" he responded "Would it surprise you if I've asked the same thing?".

We went to Christian counseling for a year/weekly. On the first time we sat down with counselor he said:
Do you like sex? Yes
Do you love your husband? Yes
Are you attracted to your husband? Yes
How often would you like to have sex? 2X/week

Can anyone see why I'm confused???

 

[GryffinSong]

I'm so sorry for everything you're going through. I have no idea if this is a factor, but when someone doesn't want sex, there's usually an underlying issue. Sometimes its as serious as sexual abuse in her past. Sometimes its as seemingly unrelated as anger in her life, or depression, or some other negative emotion that comes out in the area of sexual relations.

I can't advise you on spiritual matters, but if she can't or won't deal with whatever the underlying issue is, there's really not likely to be anything you can do to change that. Hugs to you, and I'm glad that she's at least willing to share the child raising with you. Some are not so lucky.

 

[iambren]

"I have no idea if this is a factor, but when someone doesn't want sex, there's usually an underlying issue. Sometimes its as serious as sexual abuse in her past. Sometimes its as seemingly unrelated as anger in her life, or depression, or some other negative emotion that comes out in the area of sexual relations."

All three:
--She was sexually molested as a preschooler.
--She (I believe) buried some anger when she left a church she served on staff with. Many people noticed the drop of joy in her life that she never fully recovered from.
--Depression, she now takes medicine for as do all her siblings.

The problem ,as you clearly stated, is that SHE has to face these things. I have done ALL I can and wonder if I just move on or hold out for deliverance, thus this post. Thanks.

 

[iambren]

I guess I'm talking to myself but I wish I hadn't gone into that pool. I was of a mind to just let this marriage slide; you know,everybody heals then goes on their merry way.

But a sliver of doubt has come in--is she or is she not a believer. I talked with her this evening, openly revealing my doubts of a genuine walk with God in her life. We laid out the scriptures about divorce and she said she was a Christian. BUT, she said she doesn't know what to do. This is code from her that we will shelve it and avoid it all.

Personally I see it like a man in bed with a prostitute, committing adultery against his wife. He sits up in the bed saying "I want to start pleasing God. Hmmmm, what should I do?". If he doesn't change his behavior,return to his wife, and keep hiding behind "I don't know" then how can there be any confidence that he's HS indwelt saved?

 

[captiveheart]

You asked for the divorce. I was taught that even if she wasn't a believer, if she was willing to continue in the marriage, you as a believer, had a responsibility to remain in the marriage.

 

[iambren]

You asked for the divorce. I was taught that even if she wasn't a believer, if she was willing to continue in the marriage, you as a believer, had a responsibility to remain in the marriage.

She was not willing to be married ie her continuing mistreatment and sexual/emotional denial was abandonment even though we lived in the same house and had a piece of paper at the courthouse. If she was a true believer she would soften her heart and seek out a reconciliation with me. If she refuses to reconcile,hardens heart,deafens her ear to the Holy Spirit then she is none of His and we go our seperate ways.
It's a sad pathetic story. Getting ready fo work today I thought of the scriptural admonition to fathers to not exasperate their children and provoke them to anger. God loves His children even better than we love ours. I can't see my heavenly Father keeping me in frustration with no where to go. This has been going on for most of the 15 yr marriage.

 

[captiveheart]

The Bible doesn't say more than if the unbeliever is willing to stay in the marriage, then the believer is to stay and then it explains how the believer sanctifies the unbeliever. That's what I remember anyway, I'm too lazy atm to look it up.

 

[iambren]

The Bible doesn't say more than if the unbeliever is willing to stay in the marriage, then the believer is to stay and then it explains how the believer sanctifies the unbeliever. That's what I remember anyway, I'm too lazy atm to look it up.

She would prefer that I stay in the marriage and not be married, if you know what I mean. I would not give her that; I find that to be a perversion of what God designed marriage to me.