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a strait forward question about Genesis.

Ben Borg Again

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how long after the Creation event did Genesis get written?
Genesis mentions Ramses, so Genesis must be no older than approx. 1200. bc, when Ramses was alive.. If YEC creationists believe that the earth is 6000 years old ,

this would mean Genesis, by YEC standards, was written 3200 years after the Creation Event.
So the obvious question is, how reliable can Genesis be as an accurate factual record if it was authored 3200 years after the event?
 
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FSTDT

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According to my YECist bible, Genesis was authored sometime between 1450 and 1410 BC. So, its roughly 4500 years after Creation.

Modern scholarship dates the authorship of Genesis to be around 800 BC, with a few redactions from there, and Genesis in its final form about 400 BC.

So the obvious question is, how reliable can Genesis be as an accurate factual record if it was authored 3200 years after the event?
You dont have to be a Christian to see the obviou answer: Goddidit.
 
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mmccaskill

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I always found it interesting that there is a story about creation that Christians hold so dear. But who was there to record it? Did Adam and/or Eve write it? Did their children write it? How can anyone be sure of the accuracy of this story? Doesn't make sense.

How did Adam and/or Eve know that God did all these things before creating humans? Never made sense.
 
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Deamiter

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[edit] For clarity, please note that the primary definition of "mythology" is: A body or collection of myths belonging to a people and addressing their origin, history, deities, ancestors, and heroes. (dictionary.com). It's only in a simplistic and imprecise common definition that myths must be fictional. [/edit]

Most Christians I've come in contact with (and most Christians in general worldwide) see Genesis as part of a greater truth than just some literal history. Mythologies worldwide are not just nice stories to tell your children, though it seems that way in today's culture where fiction and entertainment have become so key.

The mythology of a culture really defines the culture by laying out its values and morals and a structure for society. To many Christians, Genesis is a foundation on which greater truths lie. The historical accuracy of Jesus' death and resurrection is a primary concern (though probably not for here since this thread is now in Creation and Evolution) however, it is certainly not necessary to take Genesis literally as that was never its intended purpose.

Note that it wasn't just the Jews who developed oral mythologies. And truthfully, it is unlikely that they really thought they were "factual" though you must realize that it wasn't until the enlightenment that anybody really cared about "factual" anyway! The sumerians certainly inflated ages of their leaders -- first by years, then by over 10,000 times in their histories. It wasn't meant to be a lie, and nobody would BELIEVE that they lived that long. At the same time, it served to elevate those leaders in status when retelling the stories.

So no, Genesis isn't going to make sense to our literalistic scientific culture. Without deeply considering the culture of the time, and what THEY would have considered dishonest (or important to record) Genesis certainly seems like a load of nonsense! You're welcome to then conclude that the whole Bible is nonsense, but you'd be basing it all on a severe cultural misunderstanding rather than on truth!
 
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bloodofthelamb12

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If memory serves, ancient Hebrew tradition holds that God revealed the stories of Genesis to Moses, who then put them down in ink. And if God truly gave Moses the words to write, I would think that this book would be pretty reliable.
 
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b*unique

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Ben Borg Again said:
how long after the Creation event did Genesis get written?
Genesis mentions Ramses, so Genesis must be no older than approx. 1200. bc, when Ramses was alive.. If YEC creationists believe that the earth is 6000 years old ,

this would mean Genesis, by YEC standards, was written 3200 years after the Creation Event.
So the obvious question is, how reliable can Genesis be as an accurate factual record if it was authored 3200 years after the event?

are you back???:eek:
 
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Mistermystery

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bloodofthelamb12 said:
If memory serves, ancient Hebrew tradition holds that God revealed the stories of Genesis to Moses, who then put them down in ink. And if God truly gave Moses the words to write, I would think that this book would be pretty reliable.

Moses said it, so it must be god inspired.
rolleyes.gif
 
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Talcos Stormweaver

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Moses did not write any of the first five books of the Bible, and you'd think God would have been RIGHT if he intended it to be a literal account.

Very true. You see, RightWingGirl...

God, who was there, would be a reliable, factual source.

God himself, yes, but not the people who wrote down what God said, and the people who rewrote that, then the people who translated that, etc...
 
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gluadys

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bloodofthelamb12 said:
If memory serves, ancient Hebrew tradition holds that God revealed the stories of Genesis to Moses, who then put them down in ink. And if God truly gave Moses the words to write, I would think that this book would be pretty reliable.

But mainstream Christian theology has never equated inspiration with dictation. The biblical writers have never been seen as mere secretaries or tape recording machines, but as active participants in writing the scripture.

The dictation method of inspiration first turns up in Islam. It is disconcerting to see Christians applying it to the bible. Turning the bible into a Christian Qur'an goes against most Christian teaching about the scriptures.
 
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MidnightBlue

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gluadys said:
But mainstream Christian theology has never equated inspiration with dictation. The biblical writers have never been seen as mere secretaries or tape recording machines, but as active participants in writing the scripture.

The dictation method of inspiration first turns up in Islam. It is disconcerting to see Christians applying it to the bible. Turning the bible into a Christian Qur'an goes against most Christian teaching about the scriptures.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to gluadys again.

 
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Ryal Kane

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How it Happened by Issac Asimov



My brother began to dictate in his best oratorical style, the one which has the tribes hanging on his words.

"In the beginning," he said, "exactly fifteen point two billion years ago, there was a big bang and the Universe--"

But I had stopped writing. "Fifteen billion years ago?" I said incredulously.

"Absolutely," he said. "I'm inspired."

"I don't question your inspiration," I said. (I had better not. He's three years younger than I am, but I don't try questioning his inspiration. Neither does anyone else or there's hell to pay.) "But are you going to tell the story of the Creation over a period of fifteen billion years?"

"I have to," said my brother. "That's how long it took. I have it all in here," he tapped his forehead, "and it's on the very highest authority."

By now I had put down my stylus. "Do you know the price of papyrus?" I said.

"What?" (He may be inspired but I frequently noticed that the inspiration didn't include such sordid matters as the price of papyrus.)

I said, "Suppose you describe one million years of events to each roll of papyrus. That means you'll have to fill fifteen thousand rolls. You'll have to talk long enough to fill them and you know that you begin to stammer after a while. I'll have to write enough to fill them and my fingers will fall off. And even if we can afford all that papyrus and you have the voice and I have the strength, who's going to copy it? We've got to have a guarantee of a hundred copies before we can publish and without that where will we get royalties from?"

My brother thought awhile. He said, "You think I ought to cut it down?"

"Way down," I said, "if you expect to reach the public."

"How about a hundred years?" he said.

"How about six days?" I said.

He said horrified, "You can't squeeze Creation into six days."

I said, "This is all the papyrus I have. What do you think?"

"Oh, well," he said, and began to dictate again, "In the beginning-- Does it have to be six days, Aaron?"

I said, firmly, "Six days, Moses."
 
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Elduran

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Ryal Kane said:
How it Happened by Issac Asimov



My brother began to dictate in his best oratorical style, the one which has the tribes hanging on his words.

"In the beginning," he said, "exactly fifteen point two billion years ago, there was a big bang and the Universe--"

But I had stopped writing. "Fifteen billion years ago?" I said incredulously.

"Absolutely," he said. "I'm inspired."

"I don't question your inspiration," I said. (I had better not. He's three years younger than I am, but I don't try questioning his inspiration. Neither does anyone else or there's hell to pay.) "But are you going to tell the story of the Creation over a period of fifteen billion years?"

"I have to," said my brother. "That's how long it took. I have it all in here," he tapped his forehead, "and it's on the very highest authority."

By now I had put down my stylus. "Do you know the price of papyrus?" I said.

"What?" (He may be inspired but I frequently noticed that the inspiration didn't include such sordid matters as the price of papyrus.)

I said, "Suppose you describe one million years of events to each roll of papyrus. That means you'll have to fill fifteen thousand rolls. You'll have to talk long enough to fill them and you know that you begin to stammer after a while. I'll have to write enough to fill them and my fingers will fall off. And even if we can afford all that papyrus and you have the voice and I have the strength, who's going to copy it? We've got to have a guarantee of a hundred copies before we can publish and without that where will we get royalties from?"

My brother thought awhile. He said, "You think I ought to cut it down?"

"Way down," I said, "if you expect to reach the public."

"How about a hundred years?" he said.

"How about six days?" I said.

He said horrified, "You can't squeeze Creation into six days."

I said, "This is all the papyrus I have. What do you think?"

"Oh, well," he said, and began to dictate again, "In the beginning-- Does it have to be six days, Aaron?"

I said, firmly, "Six days, Moses."
I've always liked that short shory...
 
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John16:2

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Ben Borg Again said:
how long after the Creation event did Genesis get written?
Genesis mentions Ramses, so Genesis must be no older than approx. 1200. bc, when Ramses was alive.. If YEC creationists believe that the earth is 6000 years old ,

this would mean Genesis, by YEC standards, was written 3200 years after the Creation Event.
So the obvious question is, how reliable can Genesis be as an accurate factual record if it was authored 3200 years after the event?

I see how you're using YEC as your strawman to attack, as if all creationists are of that view, or that rediculous. I'm into genetic upgrades in evolution such as in Genesis 6:2-4. An angel announced the pregnancy to Mary, who didn't know, indicating what we know as artificial insemination, making Jesus son of God, & one of the sons of God, who parallel the gods' of myth that also mated on earth.

You require that there was no oral tradition before Genesis was written. I've studied more than you on that subject, and they don't know for sure when Job lived much less Adam. Jobs' daughters were the most beautiful anywhere. (good genes). The creation of Adam is not so far fetched by science of today.

atlan.org has interesting info on geologic evidence of the sinking of Atlantean global pyramid culture, lost even is why they put so much work into so many pyramids. The more commonly accepted dating of the deluge is around 9600BC. ANY human civilization lost was POST ADAM. In the thousands of years of oral tradition, facts may've been skewed some naturally.
 
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Mistermystery

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John16:2 said:
I see how you're using YEC as your strawman to attack,
because as we all know: asking questions about people's believe = attack.

atlan.org has interesting info on geologic evidence of the sinking of Atlantean global pyramid culture,
Here you go again, posting incomplete links, getting the topic derailed, and spewing forth inane notions.
 
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MidnightBlue

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John16:2 said:
An angel announced the pregnancy to Mary, who didn't know, indicating what we know as artificial insemination[...]
Somehow, I never pictured Gabriel bringing the divine sperm to implant in Mary.

John16:2 said:
You require that there was no oral tradition before Genesis was written. I've studied more than you on that subject, and they don't know for sure when Job lived much less Adam.
No serious scholar believes that either story is factual.

John16:2 said:
atlan.org has interesting info on geologic evidence of the sinking of Atlantean global pyramid culture, lost even is why they put so much work into so many pyramids. The more commonly accepted dating of the deluge is around 9600BC. ANY human civilization lost was POST ADAM. In the thousands of years of oral tradition, facts may've been skewed some naturally.
Creationism, Atlantis, a Deluge (conveniently backdated about 5½ millenia before the usual literalist date), and a mythical tradition to tie them all together! Interesting, in the way the Millerites of the 19th century were interesting, but not very convincing.
 
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