A Storm in the Lost Sheep Parable

[Messerve]

So, I have often heard the Lost Sheep Parable taught as the shepherd wanted to find his lost lamb before a storm came and left the 99 behind to brave the weather and find the lost one. However, reading the parable, there is zero mention of an imminent storm... I've heard people use it as a reference to God's imminent judgment and Jesus rescuing the lost before that day arrives.

So I'm kind of wondering, where that narrative started? Who decided to add a storm to the story. Any ideas? Was it combined with another parable about a lost sheep or shepherd maybe?

As a second point, I'm fairly confident that, regarding the surrounding parables (in Luke's account), this is about a Christian who has wandered and Jesus is seeking them to bring them back to the "fold". That seems clear from it's connection to the Silver Coin parable and the Prodigal Son parable. In all cases, the prized one is already a "owned" by the father/woman/shepherd. Still, I'm not sure about it's placement in Matthew, where it is in reference to not causing a "little one" to stumble.

Are the "little ones" Christians who are weak in faith and easily led astray? But how can that be if Jesus previously said he wished everyone was like a little child? How do we interpret this?

 

[Carl Emerson]

New believers have the capacity for great faith and great naivety...

 

[Hammster]

I’ve never heard that narrative.

 

[Messerve]

New believers have the capacity for great faith and great naivety...

I guess that makes sense... So Jesus is essentially saying we should have that childlike faith that just believes because He says so. Yet that same trusting nature leaves people vulnerable to being misled.

And the ones who are misled He will seek and bring back? Hmmm... I hardly ever hear that part of it.

So the inclusion of a storm in the narrative would really make no sense at all if this is about a believer who is led astray. That would only make sense if it was an unbeliever and judgment was impending for them.

 

[Messerve]

Here's an example where it's described as a snow storm, no less! This is an old hymn:

The snow was drifting o’er the hill,
The wind was fierce and loud,
While still the Shepherd forward pressed,
His head in sorrow bowed.
“O Shepherd, rest, nor farther go,
The tempest hath begun:”
“I cannot stay, I must away,
To seek my little one,
To seek my little one.”

2 “I saw Thy flock at peace within
Thine own well-guarded fold;
O Shepherd, pause, for wild the gale
That rages o’er the world;”
“No! one poor lamb hath gone astray,
And soon may be undone;
I cannot stay, I must away,
To seek my little one,
To seek my little one.”

3 “But since Thy flock are all secure,
Why to the height repair?
If Thou hast ninety-nine at home,
Why for a truant care?”
“Dearer to me than all the rest,
Is that poor struggling son!
I cannot stay, I must away,
To seek my little one,
To seek my little one.”

4 “Good Shepherd, tell me, if this need
Should bring the wand’rer home,
Wilt Thou not punish him with stripes
Lest he again should roam?”
“No! I would clasp him to my heart,
As mother clasps her son,
I cannot stay, I must away,
To seek my little one,
To seek my little one.”

5 E’en so, I thought, our gracious Lord
Hath in His heart divine,
A wealth of love for all His saints—
For all the ninety-nine!
But most He loves, and most He seeks,
The soul by sin undone;
And still He sighs, “I must away,
To seek my little one,
To seek my little one.”

 

[Hazelelponi]

Sounds like someone took "artistic license" with God's word to me.. and not someone trying to teach you God's word.

When Jesus originally used the reference for a childlike faith that we are supposed to have it was after the apostles were arguing over which of them was greatest.

Jesus answered that they needed to become humble like little children, or to humble themselves as children in order to be the greatest in heaven.

So reference to becoming like little children is the innocence and humility that a child has is how we must approach our faith, and how we follow Jesus, not as someone wanting to be great, but just as someone who desires to make their Daddy happy.

When Jesus spoke of whoever causes one of these little children to stumble, the children He was talking about are those who follow Jesus, (those humble and innocent souls) and those who would cause them to fall into error.

Notice this speech also came right after the who is greatest argument. Just think pride cometh before the fall, and fallen you lose the ability to teach God's truth correctly, or without stumbling blocks...

 

[Messerve]

I've never heard anyone use the parable of the lost sheep in reference to any storm, and it's not in the Bible so I have no idea what to answer you on that note. Perhaps you've heard people add to the Bible what they like?

When Jesus originally used the reference for a childlike faith that we are supposed to have it was after the apostles were arguing over which of them was greatest.

Jesus answered that they needed to become humble like little children, or to humble themselves as children in order to be the greatest in heaven.

So reference to becoming like little children is the innocence and humility that a child has is how we must approach our faith, and how we follow Jesus, not as someone wanting to be great, but just as someone who desires to make their Daddy happy.

When Jesus spoke of whoever causes one of these little children to stumble, the children He was talking about are those who follow Jesus, (those humble and innocent souls) and those who would cause them to fall into error.

Notice this speech came right after the who is greatest argument. Just think pride cometh before the fall, and fallen you lose the ability to teach God's truth correctly, or without stumbling blocks...

Oh, the pride issue definitely makes it clearer. Thanks!

So for the little one who has wandered...

That still doesn't quite add up to me if we look at Luke and the surrounding parables. Leading up to the parables the pharisees and scribes are upset that Jesus eats with sinners. And then Jesus responds with the three parables... The prodigal son wasn't really misled. He left intentionally and demanded his inheritance no less! The silver coin and the sheep almost seem to be lost by the owners themselves... Perhaps the sheep wandered out of ignorance, but the silver coin had to have been lost by the woman.

So we have rebellion, possible ignorance, and... I'm not sure. All different kinds of lost-ness describing sinners and Littles Ones (if Matthew's parable is the same).

The Christians I've known who wandered from the faith didn't in general seem like they were just ignorant and didn't know better... I'm thinking of people like a pastor who is caught in an affair. When a Christians wanders knowingly, it seems hard to envision them being the people Jesus refers to as "little ones". Unless it was a nice way of saying "little brains"... (I say that knowing it can also apply to myself).

 

[Hazelelponi]

Oh, the pride issue definitely makes it clearer. Thanks!

So for the little one who has wandered...

That still doesn't quite add up to me if we look at Luke and the surrounding parables. Leading up to the parables the pharisees and scribes are upset that Jesus eats with sinners. And then Jesus responds with the three parables... The prodigal son wasn't really misled. He left intentionally and demanded his inheritance no less! The silver coin and the sheep almost seem to be lost by the owners themselves... Perhaps the sheep wandered out of ignorance, but the silver coin had to have been lost by the woman.

So we have rebellion, possible ignorance, and... I'm not sure. All different kinds of lost-ness describing sinners and Littles Ones (if Matthew's parable is the same).

The Christians I've known who wandered from the faith didn't in general seem like they were just ignorant and didn't know better... I'm thinking of people like a pastor who is caught in an affair. When a Christians wanders knowingly, it seems hard to envision them being the people Jesus refers to as "little ones". Unless it was a nice way of saying "little brains"... (I say that knowing it can also apply to myself).

Your looking at two different things here.

Luke told from a different perspective in his setting with the Pharisees, than did Matthew who told from the setting of the apostles desiring greatness.

Though there is some intersection in the two tellings but Matthew is making a different point than Luke is, so we see a different emphasis going on in both tellings.

In Luke's account, with the setting of the Pharisees, it went lost sheep, lost coin, prodigal son.

But notice the last account, that of the prodigal son..

When he returned to his father and a great celebration ensued, where was the elder brother? the one who never left? What was he doing?

The elder brother is representing of the Pharisees, btw.

 

[Messerve]

Your looking at two different things here.

Luke told from a different perspective in his setting with the Pharisees, than did Matthew who told from the setting of the apostles desiring greatness.

Though there is some intersection in the two tellings but Matthew is making a different point than Luke is, so we see a different emphasis going on in both tellings.

In Luke's account, with the setting of the Pharisees, it went lost sheep, lost coin, prodigal son.

But notice the last account, that of the prodigal son..

When he returned to his father and a great celebration ensued, where was the elder brother? the one who never left? What was he doing?

The elder brother is representing of the Pharisees, btw.

Ah, so the pharisees wouldn't eat with sinners because of pride in the same way that the disciples were fighting for a place of honor because of pride. Jesus' point was that it wasn't necessarily the most righteous and most unblemished people who got His special attention, but those who were humble and even vulnerable to the point of being led astray.

And in my example, the pastor would be the one with pride leading "Little Ones" astray by the ensuing scandal or just by his terrible example. Not at all a "Little One" himself!

Jesus main point was to speak against pride, and he used the example of vulnerable followers becoming "lost" as an example of the kind of people He loves showing mercy to.

I still don't know about the Prodigal Son though... He seemed pretty aware of the weight of his sin. But then... I guess rebellious teenagers (or young adults too) are actually pretty vulnerable and ignorant.

 

[Carl Emerson]

And the Pastor might have been the victim of a flawed church structure that left him too vulnerable?

 

[Messerve]

And the Pastor might have been the victim of a flawed church structure that left him too vulnerable?

Hmmm... Perhaps in some cases. But in the case a pastor deliberately hides the sin from those in the leadership he is supposed to be accountable to? Not really.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Hmmm... Perhaps in some cases. But in the case a pastor deliberately hides the sin from those in the leadership he is supposed to be accountable to? Not really.

Mmmm... where was the gift of discernment??

 

[Messerve]

Mmmm... where was the gift of discernment??

Well in the particular situation I'm thinking of, concerns were raised by members of the congregation but the leadership brushed it all off.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I rest my case...

 

[WherevertheWindblows]

He says unless we become like little children ye will not enter the Kingdom of God

And if you think about it children aren't malicious. And Paul seems to confirm how exactly to be children

Saying,

1Cr 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

So "in malice" be ye children, but not in understanding (in understanding be men)

Just as we are to put off childish things (even understanding as a child) and become a man we are called to lay aside malice

1Peter 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

Ephes 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

I believe that clarifies what becoming childlike in that way consists of without remaining gullible.

 

[Messerve]

I rest my case...

Well, the structure for accountability was definitely there but people idolized the pastor so much they ignored everything that was questionable and let him have his way with things that should have raised red flags. Only because someone from outside the church informed the leadership of what was going on did they take action. So, really, they were a big part of the problem in reality.

The structure was good, but the individuals didn't uphold that structure.