A slightly more personal question

DarkProphet · Apr 21, 2007

Catherineanne said:
The preacher said something along the lines of, God is a God of logic and of science and of proof. So you decide, right now, what proof it would take to convince you, because until you do that, how can he reach you?

So I said, I will believe all of this, if A is convinced and decides to go forward. And lo and behold, I looked at her, and she was crying, and we both went up together.

I set the benchmark for my own faith, and God met me where I was. And he has never left me since that day.

That maybe a benchmark but it is not proof. Your friend went forward and so followed but what made your friend go forward?

MelissaShae · Apr 23, 2007

DarkProphet said:
That maybe a benchmark but it is not proof. Your friend went forward and so followed but what made your friend go forward?

What proof are you really wanting?

gracealone · Apr 23, 2007

Hey Dark Prophet,
Just out of curosity what darkness are you a prophet of?
I'm a Christian and came to faith in Christ as a child. This was easy for me then because I had the simple faith of a child and my parents demonstrated the love of Christ in a way that made me want what they had.
So my original faith was influenced by the evidence that what they believed in made a difference in how they lived in comparison to other families.
But you are right that what I believe in my heart must make sense in my mind. It does for me. I've studied a lot of apologetic works on Christianity. C.S. Lewis is probably the best I've read. He makes a very good case for Christianity in his book Mere Christianity.
He was a die hard atheist. He didn't want there to be a God because that would mean that he might be held accountable for what he did with his life. More than anything else he didn't want to be interfered with in any way.
One thing I've come to learn is that if Man is the measure of all things then he will eventually suffocate on his own finite air. Christianity is the opposite. It is a relationship with an infinite God where my finite being is swept up into His nature which means that I can feed on Him forever which allows for infinite and wondrous possibilites. "God has planted eternity in the hearts of mankind."
One more question for you. Do you believe in right and wrong or a moral law of any sort?
Best Regards

kulenok · Apr 23, 2007

you can feel it.faith is believing what you cannot see, hear, taste, smell, or touch. only an atheist cannot see, hear, smell, taste or touch anything that is holy like god or an angel. there are many happenings and sightings of angels, i personally have seen 5 demons in my lifetime, which is still short. these things are real...and my faith is what i believe, nothing and no one can tell me i'm wrong in my beliefs, because there is a miracle every single day happening to you. in a day, tehre are a million things you can die from, just like that. and yet, you are alive tomarrow to read this post. angels protect you from all of these hidden dangers, and God is all powerful. thats the God i believe in!

DarkProphet · Apr 23, 2007

MelissaShae said:
What proof are you really wanting?

You said that you went forward because your friend did. That's fine but I'm just pointing out that is not proof of anything, that's all.

MelissaShae · Apr 23, 2007

DarkProphet said:
You said that you went forward because your friend did. That's fine but I'm just pointing out that is not proof of anything, that's all.

I did not say that, Catherineanne said that, seems as though you are becoming lost in your own thread.

It is hard to give you proof when you dispute all the proof given to you. So my question is exactly what proof do you want?

ozmum · Apr 23, 2007

Gos says Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

In other words just try Him and see for yourself!
I can tell you that in His presence there is fullness of joy.
Being best friends with God is the source of true happiness.
There is evidence from the prophecies that the Bible is true if you understand the prophecies correctly ,which is that God gave them so that when they are fulfilled we will have faith .This is the historicist method of understanding prophecy. A little book called David Dare explains a lot of the prophecies that were fulfilled .Stuff that is in history and you can see the prophey was made long before it happenned.

DarkProphet · Apr 23, 2007

MelissaShae said:
I did not say that, Catherineanne said that, seems as though you are becoming lost in your own thread.

It is hard to give you proof when you dispute all the proof given to you. So my question is exactly what proof do you want?

That is not the point of this thread but since you ask, I would ask for proof that the Bible is the inspired word of God. However, before you start talking about the predictions or consistency in the Bible you must remember that I have seen that before and I have seen it discredited.

MelissaShae · Apr 23, 2007

DarkProphet said:
That is not the point of this thread but since you ask, I would ask for proof that the Bible is the inspired word of God. However, before you start talking about the predictions or consistency in the Bible you must remember that I have seen that before and I have seen it discredited.

Originally Posted by DarkProphet

This is addressed to anyone who cares to answer.

What brought to your faith?

If it was evidence what kind of evidence was it and why was it so compelling?

If it wasn't evidence then how do you know that your faith is the correct one, or even if a faith is needed?

Discredited by who and how would they know more about the bible then those who follow it and live it everyday of their lives?

And it is the point of the thread because you asked for the evidence and why it was compelling and if you don't believe the bible then how can we provide evidence or proof to meet your burden of proof? We can't only God can do that. God has lead me to my faith in him and has never let me down. He is #1 in my life and I know that He loves me and will protect me as he has planned, just as he has done for so many. I am no more special than anyone else and anyone who seeks salvation in the Lord will receive what so many of us already have, including you. Christian faith has been defined by people and taken as word, but then the bible is discredited and that is the divine word by God, makes no sense.

InnocentOdion · Apr 23, 2007

@ OP

1. God did. He called me many times, in subtle ways, until He basically ended up slapping me and telling me "I'm here, and you're ignoring every sign I give you", in brief. He didn't literally slap me, but that would be pretty cool to be slapped by The Almighty. A lot of me refusing to submit was pride. I didn't want to be the same religion as my brother. I'm always compared to my brother, I didn't want to go down that road.
2 or 3, whichever way you would prefer to count it: I've been in manymanymany religions. Just becoming one, with faith. Felt empty. Nothing is as fulfilling as the religion of Christ. Also I've had visions, dreams, felt the Holy Spirit... I could go on. I don't have epilepsy, cancer, a mental illness (except obsessive compulsive disorder), schizophrenia, and I have no ability to imagine nor visualise anything in pictures, no matter how hard I try.

One day, I just felt the Holy Spirit, you can read more on my personal section. Then I knew it was true. All doubts went. I know you probably think I'm crazy.

CShephard53 · Apr 23, 2007

You mean they turn to God out of fear?

Wouldn't you? If you had enough evidence to say that the Bible is accurate in its claims, then you would logically fear God- the One who laid down the law about what happens after life in this world. I'd fear, or respect, the One who has the power to send me to hell if I don't meet His standards by having faith and such.

That is not the point of this thread but since you ask, I would ask for proof that the Bible is the inspired word of God.

Start a study on the prophecy in the Bible. Specifically, go to websites dedicated to messianic prophecy. Learn how many there were, and note their fulfillment.

Also, look how true the Bible is about the human condition.
It claims it came from God, and it gets a load of things right. How can that be, unless God has a point?

But as I stated in another of your threads, my faith rests on the fact that Jesus rose from the dead, and the fact that much, if not all, of what the Bible says can be practically applied to today. Like speaking quietly rather than getting angry to calm a disagreement. Or not having sex before marriage. Or resting. Or any number of other values that the Bible puts forth as being healthy.

DarkProphet · Apr 23, 2007

MelissaShae said:
Discredited by who and how would they know more about the bible then those who follow it and live it everyday of their lives?

By varies scholars but the most convincing arguments I've seen were presented by a former pastor of over 20 years. As for the second question, well he is a pastor but moreover I've seen ignorance in many Christians on simple Christian topics such as the story of Creation and the story of Sodom.

MelissaShae said:
And it is the point of the thread because you asked for the evidence and why it was compelling and if you don't believe the bible then how can we provide evidence or proof to meet your burden of proof?

I'm asking what was compelling enough for you to believe in the Bible in the first place. There must have been something external to the Bible that would have you believe it.

MelissaShae said:
I am no more special than anyone else and anyone who seeks salvation in the Lord will receive what so many of us already have, including you. Christian faith has been defined by people and taken as word, but then the bible is discredited and that is the divine word by God, makes no sense.

No, I guess it wouldn't make sense.

DarkProphet · Apr 23, 2007

jawsmetroid said:
Wouldn't you? If you had enough evidence to say that the Bible is accurate in its claims, then you would logically fear God- the One who laid down the law about what happens after life in this world. I'd fear, or respect, the One who has the power to send me to hell if I don't meet His standards by having faith and such.

Fear and respect are two very different things. In any case even if I were to accept the Bible's accuracy I should not fear God because according to the Bible God he all loving, and of course an all loving God would not harshly judge a people he has created.

jawsmetroid said:
Start a study on the prophecy in the Bible. Specifically, go to websites dedicated to messianic prophecy. Learn how many there were, and note their fulfillment.

I have and I have seen them discredited.

jawsmetroid said:
Also, look how true the Bible is about the human condition.
It claims it came from God, and it gets a load of things right. How can that be, unless God has a point?

It would have to get EVERYTHING right to fulfill a claim to be from God and I don't think that it does.

jawsmetroid said:
But as I stated in another of your threads, my faith rests on the fact that Jesus rose from the dead, and the fact that much, if not all, of what the Bible says can be practically applied to today. Like speaking quietly rather than getting angry to calm a disagreement. Or not having sex before marriage. Or resting. Or any number of other values that the Bible puts forth as being healthy.

So the core of your belief resides in the fact that Jesus rose from the dead?

Jim47 · Apr 23, 2007

DarkProphet said:
This is addressed to anyone who cares to answer.

DarkProphet said:
What brought to your faith?

If it was evidence what kind of evidence was it and why was it so compelling?

If it wasn't evidence then how do you know that your faith is the correct one, or even if a faith is needed?

Faith is a gift of God. It is not something we by ourselves seek, because without faith in Jesus as our Savior, we are enemies of God. It is God who seeks us, not we Him.

16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruitfruit that will last.

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithand this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
Eph 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are Gods workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

The following scripture tells us a lot about faith.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
Heb 11:2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at Gods command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.
Heb 11:9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise.
Heb 11:10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
Heb 11:11 By faith Abraham, even though he was past ageand Sarah herself was barrenwas enabled to become a father because he considered him faithful who had made the promise.
Heb 11:12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.
Heb 11:13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth.
Heb 11:14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own.
Heb 11:15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return.
Heb 11:16 Instead, they were longing for a better countrya heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,
Heb 11:18 even though God had said to him, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned."
Heb 11:19 Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death.
Heb 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future.
Heb 11:21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Josephs sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.
Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions about his bones.
Heb 11:23 By faith Moses parents hid him for three months after he was born, because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the kings edict.
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaohs daughter.
Heb 11:25 He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a short time.
Heb 11:26 He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward.
Heb 11:27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the kings anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible.
Heb 11:28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.
Heb 11:29 By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned.
Heb 11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the people had marched around them for seven days.
Heb 11:31 By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.
Heb 11:32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets,
Heb 11:33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies.
Heb 11:35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
Heb 11:36 Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
Heb 11:37 They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated
Heb 11:38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.
Heb 11:39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised.
Heb 11:40 God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Catherineanne · Apr 24, 2007

DarkProphet said:
That maybe a benchmark but it is not proof. Your friend went forward and so followed but what made your friend go forward?

It was proof to me, because it was what I asked for. You must see that.

It was God that made my friend go forward, and it was God who answered my prayer for her. And after such a proof, I could not refuse to acknowledge him.

You did not ask for stories that would convince you. Only what had convinced us.

DarkProphet · Apr 24, 2007

Catherineanne said:
It was proof to me, because it was what I asked for. You must see that.

It was God that made my friend go forward, and it was God who answered my prayer for her. And after such a proof, I could not refuse to acknowledge him.

You did not ask for stories that would convince you. Only what had convinced us.

Fair enough.

Catherineanne · Apr 24, 2007

DarkProphet said:
Fair enough.

You are not far from the Kingdom of Heaven, DP.

A slightly more personal question

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