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A simple explanation

Dragar

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I posted this in response to Carico, but since it seems to have been wasted there, and I think it probably serves as a good introduction to evolution for anyone, I'm posting it here, in a new thread. I've tried to simplify it as much as possible (not hard, since I only know the basics myself), though any errors within I would love to be pointed out so I may correct them.

Theory of evolution (not to be confused with the observed fact that evolution takes place) is the theory that explains the current diversity of life on Earth as a result of populations becoming adapted to their particular environment.

In every cell, we have DNA stored in the nucleus. This DNA is identical for every cell in our body. It is this that determines how the cell behaves, grows and reproduces, through chemical reactions.

Every time a cell duplicates - as almost all cells do - there is a chance of an error in the copying of the DNA. This is called a mutation, and has been observed. However, a single cell with a mutation is no good for organisms with lots of cells. It won't affect the whole organism. This is why doctors don't wait for cancer cells to 'mutate'. Because mutations only occur for individual cells. The odds of every cancer cell 'suddenly' mutating to be non-cancerous are astronomical. The odds of one doing it? Probably not so unlikely. But one cancer cell reverting to normal will not help.

The important mutations are the ones that take place when the egg and sperm cells are created. These carry the DNA for the offspring. So if there is a mutation within either of those, the whole organism that the egg or sperm eventually produces will have that same mutation.

Mutations are usually small. Very often, they are harmful or even fatal. Many times, they are neutral. But sometimes, rarely, they are beneficial to survival in that particular environment. Note that the environment includes everything from the temperature and average rainfall to the type of predators in the area.

Organisms with beneficial mutations are more likely to be successful at reproducing - and thus passing on their DNA. Their offspring will carry those beneficial mutations.

Over time, the entire breeding population in that environment will aquire those beneficial mutations - simply because those with the mutation are better at producing offspring.

These changes are cumulative. Every beneficial mutation is kept, every harmful mutation is lost - simply because organisms with harmful mutations don't breed as well, while organisms with beneficial mutations breed better. Each new, beneficial mutation is added onto the last one. The changes become more and more pronounced.

In different environments, different mutations are beneficial or harmful. This means that in different environments, populations will adapt differently. Over time, two populations in different environments which were once of the same species become so different that they can no longer interbreed - thus, seperate species.

Over longer periods of time, different species can become so adapted to their environment they no longer even look anything alike. Sometimes the differences in apperance are not so great.

That is a very simplified explanation of theory of evolution.
 

Data

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(As an aside, cancer is caused by a mutation in the DNA. This causes the cells to go into a mode where they constantly reproduce - producing tumours. All it takes is a single cell to have this mutation, and it will reproduce, copying its new, mutated DNA every time.)
Perhaps a clarification?

Cancer is caused by certain specific mutations.
 
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Carico

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Dragar said:
I posted this in response to Carico, but since it seems to have been wasted there, and I think it probably serves as a good introduction to evolution for anyone, I'm posting it here, in a new thread. I've tried to simplify it as much as possible (not hard, since I only know the basics myself), though any errors within I would love to be pointed out so I may correct them.

Theory of evolution (not to be confused with the observed fact that evolution takes place) is the theory that explains the current diversity of life on Earth as a result of populations becoming adapted to their particular environment.

In every cell, we have DNA stored in the nucleus. This DNA is identical for every cell in our body. It is this that determines how the cell behaves, grows and reproduces, through chemical reactions.

Every time a cell duplicates - as almost all cells do - there is a chance of an error in the copying of the DNA. This is called a mutation, and has been observed. However, a single cell with a mutation is no good for organisms with lots of cells. It won't affect the whole organism. This is why doctors don't wait for cancer cells to 'mutate'. Because mutations only occur for individual cells. The odds of every cancer cell 'suddenly' mutating to be non-cancerous are astronomical. The odds of one doing it? Probably not so unlikely. But one cancer cell reverting to normal will not help.

(As an aside, cancer is caused by a mutation in the DNA. This causes the cells to go into a mode where they constantly reproduce - producing tumours. All it takes is a single cell to have this mutation, and it will reproduce, copying its new, mutated DNA every time.)

The important mutations are the ones that take place when the egg and sperm cells are created. These carry the DNA for the offspring. So if there is a mutation within either of those, the whole organism that the egg or sperm eventually produces will have that same mutation.

Mutations are usually small. Very often, they are harmful or even fatal. Many times, they are neutral. But sometimes, rarely, they are beneficial to survival in that particular environment. Note that the environment includes everything from the temperature and average rainfall to the type of predators in the area.

Organisms with beneficial mutations are more likely to be successful at reproducing - and thus passing on their DNA. Their offspring will carry those beneficial mutations.

Over time, the entire breeding population in that environment will aquire those beneficial mutations - simply because those with the mutation are better at producing offspring.

These changes are cumulative. Every beneficial mutation is kept, every harmful mutation is lost - simply because organisms with harmful mutations don't breed as well, while organisms with beneficial mutations breed better. Each new, beneficial mutation is added onto the last one. The changes become more and more pronounced.

In different environments, different mutations are beneficial or harmful. This means that in different environments, populations will adapt differently. Over time, two populations in different environments which were once of the same species become so different that they can no longer interbreed - thus, seperate species.

Over longer periods of time, different species can become so adapted to their environment they no longer even look anything alike. Sometimes the differences in apperance are not so great.

That is a very simplified explanation of theory of evolution.

Again this theory that human beings are an nothing but an ACCIDENT of nature, a mutation from the genes of an ape or gorilla- like creature indicates a profound lack of respect for the gifts & abilities of which we human beings are capable! The pains to which evolutionists go to try their hardest to PROVE that we are NOT a miraculous creation but instead nothing but matter shows a complete lack of regard for not only how we are differentiated from other animals, but no understanding of the human the soul. We human beings, unlike any other animal, were given the ability to honor our Creator, but instead, many people throw this away and laugh in the face of our Creator by saying that WE know how life was formed! If ANY evolutionist even UNDERSTOOD what a soul was, he would KNOW why we could NOT have come from apes! But sadly, they do not. They completely deny that other animals cannot build statues of false gods, or even analyze data to try to prove that men are nothing but organisms. And evolutionists are proud of this!!!!

Thus, evolutionists cannot see the forest through the trees because the only trees they see are cells, organisms, & genes, & COMPLETELY miss the overall picture of the human being which is MUCH more than that. Well, sorry but THEY might be only organisms, cells & genes, but many other people have the capacity to see much more value in themselves. Until evolutionists value their own lives enough to see that they cannot be analyzed in a petrie dish, they will continue to reduce the human being to nothing but cells, genes, & organisms. And because of this, they will miss the obvious fact that this ability to honor our creator could NOT have come from an animal through a gene, mutation or any other way because NO other animal posseses this quality!

The tragedy of this is that they will also never understand the true purpose of their lives on earth. But who cares? As long as they can spend their lives trying to reduce the human being to nothing but cells, genes & organisms, then they think they have accomplished their purpose of trying to destroy all signs that we were a miraculous gift from God. Many people spend their whole lives trying to do this!!! But the fact is, they cannot change the truth that we ARE a miraculous gift from God. Unfortunately, most of them will find this out when it's too late. And then they can look back on their lives and see that not only was it a lie, but they can also live throughout eternity knowing that their whole purpose in life was to try to reduce the human being to nothing but an extension of the ape. I can hardly think of anything sadder, except that evolutionists themselves have so much contempt for their own souls. :(
 
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mikeynov

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Carico said:
Again this theory that human beings are an nothing but an ACCIDENT of nature, a mutation from the genes of an ape or gorilla- like creature indicates a profound lack of respect for the gifts & abilities of which we human beings are capable! The pains to which evolutionists go to try their hardest to PROVE that we are NOT a miraculous creation but instead nothing but matter shows a complete lack of regard for not only how we are differentiated from other animals, but no understanding of the human the soul. We human beings, unlike any other animal, were given the ability to honor our Creator, but instead, many people throw this away and laugh in the face of our Creator by saying that WE know how life was formed! If ANY evolutionist even UNDERSTOOD what a soul was, he would KNOW why we could NOT have come from apes! But sadly, they do not. They completely deny that other animals cannot build statues of false gods, or even analyze data to try to prove that men are nothing but organisms. And evolutionists are proud of this!!!!

Thus, evolutionists cannot see the forest through the trees because the only trees they see are cells, organisms, & genes, & COMPLETELY miss the overall picture of the human being which is MUCH more than that. Well, sorry but THEY might be only organisms, cells & genes, but many other people have the capacity to see much more value in themselves. Until evolutionists value their own lives enough to see that they cannot be analyzed in a petrie dish, they will continue to reduce the human being to nothing but cells, genes, & organisms. And because of this, they will miss the obvious fact that this ability to honor our creator could NOT have come from an animal through a gene, mutation or any other way because NO other animal posseses this quality!

The tragedy of this is that they will also never understand the true purpose of their lives on earth. But who cares? As long as they can spend their lives trying to reduce the human being to nothing but cells, genes & organisms, then they think they have accomplished their purpose of trying to destroy all signs that we were a miraculous gift from God. Many people spend their whole lives trying to do this!!! But the fact is, they cannot change the truth that we ARE a miraculous gift from God. Unfortunately, most of them will find this out when it's too late. And then they can look back on their lives and see that not only was it a lie, but they can also live throughout eternity knowing that their whole purpose in life was to try to reduce the human being to nothing but an extension of the ape. I can hardly think of anything sadder, except that evolutionists themselves have so much contempt for their own souls. :(


How many times do people have to point out that 'evolutionary theory' != 'atheism,' or more specifically, materialistic naturalism.

I mean, a good proportion of the 'evolutionists' on this board ARE christians - who are you addressing, exactly?
 
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Dragar

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Dragar just what type of response were you wanting to get?

I'm trying to explain evolution to people who do not understand what the theory is even about. What I'd have liked as a response would have been, "Oh, so that's what evolution is! Yes, that makes perfect sense, Dragar! Thank you so much, you've saved my mind from creationist propoganda! How can I ever repay you?"

For an example of the type of response I expected, read Carico's.
 
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Carico

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mikeynov said:
How many times do people have to point out that 'evolutionary theory' != 'atheism,' or more specifically, materialistic naturalism.

I mean, a good proportion of the 'evolutionists' on this board ARE christians - who are you addressing, exactly?

Sorry, but God said He created the world & everything in it and created man separately in His image. Do you believe this? If so, then why do you contradict Him & say we came from apes instead???
 
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Dragar

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Again this theory that human beings are an nothing but an ACCIDENT of nature, a mutation from the genes of an ape or gorilla- like creature indicates a profound lack of respect for the gifts & abilities of which we human beings are capable! The pains to which evolutionists go to try their hardest to PROVE that we are NOT a miraculous creation but instead nothing but matter shows a complete lack of regard for not only how we are differentiated from other animals, but no understanding of the human the soul. We human beings, unlike any other animal, were given the ability to honor our Creator, but instead, many people throw this away and laugh in the face of our Creator by saying that WE know how life was formed! If ANY evolutionist even UNDERSTOOD what a soul was, he would KNOW why we could NOT have come from apes! But sadly, they do not. They completely deny that other animals cannot build statues of false gods, or even analyze data to try to prove that men are nothing but organisms. And evolutionists are proud of this!!!!

Many people believe in both souls and evolution as an origin for our species, Carico.

Thus, evolutionists cannot see the forest through the trees because the only trees they see are cells, organisms, & genes, & COMPLETELY miss the overall picture of the human being which is MUCH more than that. Well, sorry but THEY might be only organisms, cells & genes, but many other people have the capacity to see much more value in themselves. Until evolutionists value their own lives enough to see that they cannot be analyzed in a petrie dish, they will continue to reduce the human being to nothing but cells, genes, & organisms. And because of this, they will miss the obvious fact that this ability to honor our creator could NOT have come from an animal through a gene, mutation or any other way because NO other animal posseses this quality!

Many animals possess unique traits, Carico. That doesn't mean they didn't evolve.

The tragedy of this is that they will also never understand the true purpose of their lives on earth. But who cares? As long as they can spend their lives trying to reduce the human being to nothing but cells, genes & organisms, then they think they have accomplished their purpose of trying to destroy all signs that we were a miraculous gift from God. Many people spend their whole lives trying to do this!!! But the fact is, they cannot change the truth that we ARE a miraculous gift from God. Unfortunately, most of them will find this out when it's too late. And then they can look back on their lives and see that not only was it a lie, but they can also live throughout eternity knowing that their whole purpose in life was to try to reduce the human being to nothing but an extension of the ape. I can hardly think of anything sadder, except that evolutionists themselves have so much contempt for their own souls.

We're not trying to reduce the wonder of existence, Carico. But we are trying to present this amazing universe the way it really is - not how you might like it to be.

At least this time you didn't include any straw men - this was just a rant. Perhaps your misconceptions have, at least, been slightly lessoned by my post.
 
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mikeynov

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Carico said:
Sorry, but God said He created the world & everything in it and created man separately in His image. Do you believe this? If so, then why do you contradict Him & say we came from apes instead???

No, this is what you interpret God to have said - there's a difference.

Even assuming your theistic assumptions, other theists interpret Genesis in an entirely different light. Don't confuse your interpretation of scripture with God speaking, unless, of course, you are God.
 
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Carico

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Dragar said:
Many people believe in both souls and evolution as an origin for our species, Carico.



Many animals possess unique traits, Carico. That doesn't mean they didn't evolve.



We're not trying to reduce the wonder of existence, Carico. But we are trying to present this amazing universe the way it really is - not how you might like it to be.

At least this time you didn't include any straw men - this was just a rant. Perhaps your misconceptions have, at least, been slightly lessoned by my post.

Do you even know what a soul is??? If so, then how could we have "inherited our souls from animals who do not possess it? again, you are giving qualities to other animals like cognition, the ability to analyze, conceptualize, etc. that they have shown they don't have. There's a reason that lions & tigers do not run our government, post on this forum, create television and on and on. This is so obvious to even children yet this is the length of illogic that evolutionists will go to say that we are no different than animals! You definitely miss the obvious!

So why in the world are you even TRYING to prove that we came from apes????What is your purpose????
 
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Dragar

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Do you even know what a soul is???

No, I do not.

If so, then how could we have "inherited our souls from animals who do not possess it? again, you are giving qualities to other animals like cognition, the ability to analyze, conceptualize, etc. that they have shown they don't have.

This is entirely false. Many other apes have shown intelligence.

Besides which, how do you claim to know how God worked? Perhaps he added souls to all animals - or only to humans once the species had evolved.

There's a reason that lions & tigers do not run our government, post on this forum, create television and on and on. This is so obvious to even children yet this is the length of illogic that evolutionists will go to say that we are no different than animals! You definitely miss the obvious!

So why in the world are you even TRYING to prove that we came from apes????What is your purpose????

I'm trying to explain to you how God's creation really is.

Now, tell me Carico: why do you think that your fallible, human interpretation of Scripture should be more reliable than the opinions of men who have dedicated their lives to studying God's creation itself?
 
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Carico said:
Do you even know what a soul is??? If so, then how could we have "inherited our souls from animals who do not possess it?
God. God gave humans souls. It doesn't matter where our bodies came from.
again, you are giving qualities to other animals like cognition, the ability to analyze, conceptualize, etc. that they have shown they don't have.
actually this is false. It has been shown that animals do have many of these abilities.
There's a reason that lions & tigers do not run our government, post on this forum, create television and on and on.
they have better things to do no doubt. plus the US has a chimp in charge.
This is so obvious to even children yet this is the length of illogic that evolutionists will go to say that we are no different than animals! You definitely miss the obvious!

So why in the world are you even TRYING to prove that we came from apes????What is your purpose????

taxonomically humans are apes.
 
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Carico

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Dragar said:
No, I do not.



This is entirely false. Many other apes have shown intelligence.

Besides which, how do you claim to know how God worked? Perhaps he added souls to all animals - or only to humans once the species had evolved.



I'm trying to explain to you how God's creation really is.

Now, tell me Carico: why do you think that your fallible, human interpretation of Scripture should be more reliable than the opinions of men who have dedicated their lives to studying God's creation itself?

Then how can you say that Evolutionists believe in souls? Your contradictions are endless.

Again, your contempt for the gifts of man as being no better than an ape is not only a huge lack of respect for your gifts & abilities, it is also denial. And it proves my post. I am no longer going to have a conversation with someone who not only doesn't value his own soul, but cannot see the difference bewteen men & apes. You have also proven what I said about evolutionists not understanding what a soul is and therefore, you can NEVER see why we could not have come from apes. But your gross confusion about what differentiates men from apes will only create more contradictory arguments. But you can continue to claim that you belong in a zoo. By your reasoning, you you should see that as a compliment. Next time I visit a zoo, I'll look for you. Other than that, I will not waste my time conversing with someone whose every statement contradicts his last one.
 
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Dragar

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Then how can you say that Evolutionists believe in souls? Your contradictions are endless.

Because some do, and some don't.

Again, your contempt for the gifts of man as being no better than an ape is not only a huge lack of respect for your gifts & abilities, it is also denial. And it proves my post. I am no longer going to have a conversation with someone who not only doesn't value his own soul, but cannot see the difference bewteen men & apes. You have also proven what I said about evolutionists not understanding what a soul is and therefore, you can NEVER see why we could not have come from apes. But your gross confusion about what differentiates men from apes will only create more contradictory arguments. But you can continue to claim that you belong in a zoo. By your reasoning, you you should see that as a compliment. Next time I visit a zoo, I'll look for you. Other than that, I will not waste my time conversing with someone whose every statement contradicts his last one.

Please show me my contradictions. How else will I learn?

I'm fairly sure you're going to put me on ignore, actually. But, Carico, that won't help. You can't just close your mind and ears and eyes whenever you come across something which contradicts what you believe.

If you want to know what's true and what's not, Carico, ignoring things which go against your beliefs is a fairly poor way of finding out.
 
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Carico said:
Then how can you say that Evolutionists believe in souls? Your contradictions are endless.

Again, your contempt for the gifts of man as being no better than an ape is not only a huge lack of respect for your gifts & abilities, it is also denial. And it proves my post. I am no longer going to have a conversation with someone who not only doesn't value his own soul, but cannot see the difference bewteen men & apes. You have also proven what I said about evolutionists not understanding what a soul is and therefore, you can NEVER see why we could not have come from apes. But your gross confusion about what differentiates men from apes will only create more contradictory arguments. But you can continue to claim that you belong in a zoo. By your reasoning, you you should see that as a compliment. Next time I visit a zoo, I'll look for you. Other than that, I will not waste my time conversing with someone whose every statement contradicts his last one.

You are humorous.
 
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