A serious message for the church

[Wisdom's Child]

I found an interesting video on the internet and I put together a teaching video based on it's premis.
Please if you can review it and then we can discuss it hopefully on two levels.

1.) End Times /Rapture teachings...
and
2) The utility of Internet Video as a way of spreading The Gospel.

A Serious Message for The Church



Thank you.

 

[Wizzer]

Hello Wisdom's Child,

I am definitely not going to deny pastor Gregory's sincerity. And I would even agree with him that the teaching in the internet video he found is wrong doctrine, but I would caution that two wrongs do not make a right. There are all sorts of variations of end-times beliefs, and I am in agreement that the pre-trib rapture doctrine has serious problems, but I’m not sure I would have gone quite as far as pastor Gregory did at the end of his own video when he said that the church in the video lost 90% of its congregation due to the teaching of [the pre-trib rapture] false doctrine from the pulpit. (Though I must admit that I do share his concern over that false teaching.) My own personal concern is over false teachings like OSAS and cheap grace. I see these as being much more deadly than false end-times views. (But to each his own.)

It is hard to know exactly what all pastor Gregory believes, but it is clear that he is genuinely concerned about the possible adverse affect the pre-trib rapture doctrine may have on the church. And this concern I do share with him. My own end-time view at this point is something called the pre-wrath rapture view. And even if my view is not the same as pastor Gregory’s, we both do share the opinion that the pre-trib rapture teaching is wrong, and potentially harmful to the church.

I am willing to dialogue concerning this video if you wish, but prophesy is not my big thing. I think I have a rather good understanding of the big picture, if you will, but there are a lot of details which I still do not understand. But I have faith that those who follow Jesus in truth will persevere, and will be willing to persevere, whatever may come. So as for me, yea, it would be nice to get sucked out of here before all hell breaks loose (before the Antichrist comes) but if that is not the way it is going to play out, then I am willing to take my stand and loose my life, but I will never forsake my God.

Sincerely,
The Wizzer

 

[mysterychristian]

hello

 

[ivory]

I personally don’t like the word “rapture,” because it is not in the Bible. The word describes the way that the people will feel who are caught up to be with Jesus - rapturous. I prefer the word “translation.” (Hebrews 11:5). “Enoch was translated without seeing death.” He was a “type” or representative of those living people who will be caught up to the clouds when Jesus returns. Moses is a type of those who have died and will be raised to life by Jesus when he returns.
GOD’S SERVANTS WILL BE SPARED THE “WRATH” TO COME
I THESSALONIANS 1:10 “... wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.”
I THESSALONIANS 5:9 “For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
I THESSALONIANS 1:10 “... wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.”
The fire did not fall on Sodom and Gomorrah until the angels had rescued Lot. The rain did not fall until Noah and his family were safe in the ark. The destroying angel did not pass through Egypt until God’s children were safe behind the doors painted with the blood of the Lamb. The stubble of last year’s fields is not burned until the harvest has been safely gathered in. God cannot completely withdraw His spirit from this world, so long as His servants are here. He cannot then pour out His final wrath, which results from the withdrawing of His spirit, until those servants are safe in the “Father’s house.” The Church is to expect trial, but not the “wrath of God.”
The teaching of a secret pretribulation rapture is a doctrine that never existed before 1830. Did the pretribulation rapture come into existence by a careful exegesis of Scripture? No. The first person to teach the doctrine was a young woman named Margaret Macdonald. Margaret was not a theologian or Bible expositor but was a prophetess in the Irvingite sect (the Catholic Apostolic Church).

 

[Wisdom's Child]

Thank you for your response, but I have to offer one correction that I see. If you are curious about what this pastor believes and teaches look no farther than my profile and CF postings, for he is me...

My belief is in the post-trib viewpoint, and that this congregation (strawman it may be), being quite typical in appearance of protestant evangelicals with a pre-trib outlook, I can also consider the probability that their minister is drawing a paycheck (hireling) from an incorporated buisness (merchandizing God - Not paying Caesar what is Caesar's ,i.e; Taxes) and is being run behind the scenes by a small circle of wealthy "decons" who hired the minister and dictate what he can and cannot teach.
As I shown in the video, a pre-trib rapture of the "good christians" is unsupported by scripture, and I even use their video to illustrate the evidence.
Even if the Rapture comes earlier than I suspect, it will still serve to uproot the tares and not remove the righteous which is promised to never be removed.

 

[Wisdom's Child]

I personally don’t like the word “rapture,” because it is not in the Bible. The word describes the way that the people will feel who are caught up to be with Jesus - rapturous. I prefer the word “translation.” (Hebrews 11:5). “Enoch was translated without seeing death.” He was a “type” or representative of those living people who will be caught up to the clouds when Jesus returns. Moses is a type of those who have died and will be raised to life by Jesus when he returns.
GOD’S SERVANTS WILL BE SPARED THE “WRATH” TO COME
I THESSALONIANS 1:10 “... wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.”
I THESSALONIANS 5:9 “For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
I THESSALONIANS 1:10 “... wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.”
The fire did not fall on Sodom and Gomorrah until the angels had rescued Lot. The rain did not fall until Noah and his family were safe in the ark. The destroying angel did not pass through Egypt until God’s children were safe behind the doors painted with the blood of the Lamb. The stubble of last year’s fields is not burned until the harvest has been safely gathered in. God cannot completely withdraw His spirit from this world, so long as His servants are here. He cannot then pour out His final wrath, which results from the withdrawing of His spirit, until those servants are safe in the “Father’s house.” The Church is to expect trial, but not the “wrath of God.”
The teaching of a secret pretribulation rapture is a doctrine that never existed before 1830. Did the pretribulation rapture come into existence by a careful exegesis of Scripture? No. The first person to teach the doctrine was a young woman named Margaret Macdonald. Margaret was not a theologian or Bible expositor but was a prophetess in the Irvingite sect (the Catholic Apostolic Church).

Yes, God's servants will be spared, and as the video bears out, a handful of people were spared, clearly the "wrath of God" did not befall them.

1) Lot and his daughters were separated from the sodomites, but never left the earth.
2) Noah and his family also winessed the "removal" of the wicked, but still safely remained on the earth (planet).
3) The Israelites were protected by God's promise and witnessed the "harvest" of the firstborn from the comfort of their homes. They left Egypt after the Angel of Death did it's work.
4) In the Parable of the Tares, Jesus indicates that unlike the typical agricultural practice, all of that "stubble" will be removed before the harvest is taken to the barn. I think that is significant, since the common and accepted agricultural practice would be to "weed" the field as the servants suggest. Why wait till the harvest?

God is quite capable of distinguishing His chosen from the children of the devil.