My first major point of disagreement with you is your contention that the Book of James is wrong and so should be disregarded.
No sir, what I said was that a person cannot be justified before God by works as James suggests.
And that
if it does teach it, than I agree with what Martin Luther wrote.
Paul says all through Romans 4-8 that a man is justified by faith. Yet in James 2:24, James says a man is justified by works.
A contridiction.
A plain reading of the scripture says this.
And justification comes when one is declared righteous.
Not by any works prior to, nor after salvation.
I believe that this is never the correct approach to dealing with passages of Scripture that contradict our own personal understanding of theology. And, in looking around at the Statements of Faith of various Baptist denominations, I would say, at the very least, that the prevailing view (if not the universal view) among these denominations agrees with me on this point.
Again, you are wrong.
Read all the historic Baptist confessions. They
all say the same thing:
that it is bestowed, not in consideration of any works of righteousness which we have done, but solely through faith in the Redeemer's blood
- THE PHILADELPHIA CONFESSION, 1742
THE SANDY CREEK CONFESSION, 1758
THE GOATYARD DECLARATION OF FAITH, 1792
THE NEW HAMPSHIRE BAPTIST CONFESSION OF FAITH, 1833
- TREATISE ON THE FAITH AND PRACTICE OF THE FREE WILL BAPTISTS, 1834 AND 1948
THE ABSTRACT OF PRINCIPLES, 1858
ARTICLES OF FAITH PUT FORTH BY THE BAPTIST BIBLE UNION OF AMERICA, 1923
- BAPTIST FAITH AND MESSAGE, 1925
- BAPTIST FAITH AND MESSAGE, 1963
Report of Committee on Baptist Faith and Message, May 9, 1963
Report of the Presidential Theological Study Committee, June, 1994
Report of Committee on Baptist Faith and Message, June 9, 1998
1963 and 2000 Amendment Comparisons
- CAMBRIDGE DECLARATION, 1998
My point in this whole thread is not to claim that we need something more than faith to be saved. My point is that faith without works is not really faith. It is not a matter of doing good things to prove to God that we are worthy of salvation. Obviously, we are not. It is to correct the misunderstanding, common in many evangelical churches, that it really doesn't matter what you do, because you just need to have "faith." This teaching is based upon an unbiblical understanding of the word faith, which flies in the face of Paul's and the other apostles' teachings in the matter.
A misunderstanding of faith huh.
Faith without works is not really faith huh.
Show me the works of the man on the cross with Jesus.
Show me the works of the woman with the issue of blood.
Show me the works of the Centurion.
Show me the works of the repentant tax collector.
Shall I go on?
My Bible clearly teaches me that I have been redeemed by Christ.
I have Christ's righteousness imputed to me, therefore I am already righteous by virtue of Christ.
I have been justified by Christ in the sight of God.
in Luke chapter 7, Jesus goes to a Pharisees house to eat. While there, we have this account:
"And
one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat.
And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment. Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner. And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on. There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman,
Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace." -Lk. 7:36-50 (KJV)
I certainly am no die hard Bible scholar. But I can read for myself.
I only bring this out because this bears importance here.
What saved this woman, was it her faith or her work?
If you say work, then you are wrong. For it is certain we can do no work that would earn us merit before God.
If you say faith, then the teachings of James is proven wrong and you have to admit you are wrong also.
Show me in this text, where Jesus told her to go and have faith plus works in order to be saved.
Here is another one for you to chew on.
While in Jericho, we are told this little diddy:
"And it came to pass, that as he was come nigh unto Jericho, a certain blind man sat by the way side begging:
And hearing the multitude pass by, he asked what it meant. And they told him, that Jesus of Nazareth passeth by. And he cried, saying, Jesus, thou son of David, have mercy on me. And they which went before rebuked him, that he should hold his peace:
but he cried so much the more, Thou son of David, have mercy on me. And Jesus stood, and commanded him to be brought unto him: and when he was come near, he asked him,
Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord, that I may receive my sight. And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee." -Lk. 18:35-42 (KJV)
In this passage, what saved this man and gave him his sight back?
Was it faith plus works, or was it faith alone in Jesus Christ?
In fact, doesn't God dispise the idea of works righteousness? (cf. Mt 23)
Are we obedient
in order to be saved or becase we
are saved? In fact, doesn't the Bible teach that people are obedient because God has
already saved them? (cf 2 Cor. 9:8; James 2:26; 1 Jn. 3:9; 4:7; 5:18)
Jesus never taught the way to eternal life was faith plus works as James does.
Did not in fact Jesus say:
"This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." -Jn. 6:29 (KJV)
Does the text say: This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent
and do good works?
Does John 3:16 read
: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him
and does good works should not perish, but have everlasting life."?
Did Jesus say:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me,
and does good works hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."?
Did Jesus say:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me
and does good works hath everlasting life."?
Is the message of the New Testament simply that one legal system replaced another? Are we reconciled to God by what we do or by what God did to present us holy in His sight?
Is not faith very much alive
before good works are performed, and not because of good works? Christains in the historic orthodox faith thus believe that we are saved by grace through faith and strongly agree that a faith without works is dead; that is, true saving faith will be accompanied by works. Christians also believe that faith before it has a chance to work is a saving faith also, the prime example is the thief on the cross. But, according to James faith is dead until you do "good works."
Bob Ross, in his book "Campbellism; It's Histories and Hereises" says:
Campbellism is salvation by works because it requires one to obey -in order to be saved - a 'gospel plan' that in order requires (a) faith, repentance, good confession, baptism, remission of sins, and the Holy Spirit - thus requires a sacramental ordinance, and, (b) requires the assistance of another person ["priest"] and thus the obedience of the one assisting."
Is this construction a tradition of man rather than a command of God?
If grace is a free gift (Rom. 5:15-16,18; 6:23), if it is unmerited favor - then God does not require any work in order to be saved!
Let me quote another great Baptist theologian:
"How doth faith justify a sinner in the sight of God? Answer:
Faith justifies a sinner in the sight of God, not because of those other graces which do always accompany it, nor of good works that are the fruits of it, nor as if the grace of faith, or any act thereof, were imputed to him for justification; but only as it is an instrument by which he receiveth and applieth Christ and His righteousness" (Westminster Confession of Faith). Though this definition was framed upwards of two hundred and fifty years ago, it is far superior to almost anything found in current literature on the subject.
It is more accurate to speak of faith as the "instrument" rather than as the condition, for a "condition" is generally used to signify that for the sake whereof a benefit is conferred.
Faith is neither the ground nor the substance of our justification, but simply the hand which receives the divine gift proffered to us in the Gospel.
If righteousness was given as a reward for faith, its possessor would have cause for boasting, expressly contrary to the Apostle in Romans 3:26, 27. Moreover, such a method of justification would entirely frustrate the life and death of Christ, making His great sacrifice unnecessary. It is not faith as a spiritual grace which justifies us, but as an instrument—the hand which lays hold of Christ.
In Romans 4 we read "his faith is counted for righteousness" (v. 5), "faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness" (v. 9), "it was imputed to him for righteousness" (v. 22). Now in each of these verses the Greek preposition is "eis" which never means "in the stead of," but always signifies "towards, in order to, with a view to": it has the uniform force of "unto." Its exact meaning and force is unequivocally plain in Romans 10:10, "with the heart man believeth unto ["eis"] righteousness": that is, the believing heart reaches out toward and lays hold of Christ Himself. "This passage (Rom. 10:10) may help us to understand what justification by faith is, for it shows that righteousness there comes to us when we embrace God’s goodness offered to us in the Gospel. We are then, for this reason, made just: because we believe that God is propitious to us through Christ" (J. Calvin).
That faith itself cannot be the substance or ground of our justification is clear from many considerations. The "righteousness of God (i.e., the satisfaction which Christ rendered to the law) is revealed to faith" (Rom. 1:17) and so cannot be faith itself. Romans 10:10 declares "with the heart man believeth unto righteousness" so that righteousness must be a distinct thing from believing. In Jeremiah 23:6 we read "The LORD our righteousness," so faith cannot be our righteousness. Let not Christ be dethroned in order to exalt faith: set not the servant above the master. "We acknowledge no righteousness but what the obedience and satisfaction of Christ yields us: His blood, not our faith; His satisfaction, not our believing it, is the matter of justification before God" (J. Flavel). What alterations are there in our faith! what minglings of unbelief at all times! Is this a foundation to build our justification and hope upon?
How are we justified by faith? ...not by faith as a joint cause with works (Romanists), not by faith as an act of grace in us (Arminians), not by faith as it receives the Spirit’s witness (Antinomians); we now turn to the positive answer. Faith justifies only as an instrument which God has appointed to the apprehension and application of Christ’s righteousness. When we say that faith is the "instrument" of our justification, let it be clearly understood that we do not mean faith is the instrument wherewith God justifies, but the instrument whereby we receive Christ. Christ has merited righteousness for us, and faith in Christ is that which renders it meet in God’s sight the purchased blessing be assigned. Faith unites to Christ, and being united to Him we are possessed of all that is in Christ, so far as is consistent with our capacity of receiving and God’s appointment in giving. Having been made one with Christ in spirit, God now considers us as one with Him in law.
We are justified by faith, and not for faith; not because of what faith is, but because of what it receives. "It hath no efficacy of itself, but as it is the band of our union with Christ. The whole virtue of cleansing proceeds from Christ the object. We receive the water with our hands, but the cleansing virtue is not in our hands, but in the water, yet the water cannot cleanse us without our receiving it; our receiving it unites the water to us, and is a means whereby we are cleansed.
And therefore is it observed that our justification by faith is always expressed in the passive, not in the active: we are justified by faith, not that faith justifies us. The efficacy is in Christ’s blood; the reception of it is in our faith" (S. Charnock).
Arthur W. Pink, The Doctrine of Justification, Chapter 8, Its Instruments.
So I have a misunderstanding of what faith is. Tisk, tisk, tisk.
Paul says:
"Therefore being justified by faith," -Rom. 5:1
Yet James says:
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." -Jas2:24 (KJV)
Now which is it? Are you justified by faith as Paul says? Or, are you justified by works as James says?
God Bless
Till all are one.