A quick update and 2 more questions....

[Mulutka]

Hello everyone! I had told everyone here, (a couple of weeks ago) that I was questioning Catholicism and wondering if I should come back to it. Well, I just wanted to update everyone...

I've gone to Mass more and, after everyone here explained to me the meaning of Mass (why do you go), I really began to enjoy and appreciate the service. Last Sunday was especially awesome. The priest gave a talk about how God takes us just as we are: with all our faults. He went on to warn everyone about guilt trips and how easily it is for people to see things in terms of "bad" and then get down on themself... but we shouldn't see our life in terms of "how bad" we are-- we should view everything in terms of good-> how will such-and-such benefit us and God.. if it benefit us very little then leave it alone and go on to something else. I hope I'm making some sort of sense...( I tend to suck at summarizing things).

His message was exactly what I needed to hear that day. It kinda shocked me that the service could have such a personal effect on me. I used to think that Mass was only a worship ceremony... but God doesn't just want us to worship Him: He wants fellowship too. I had thought that protestants were the only ones who stressed fellowship in their service but now I see how wrong I was.

There is so much about Catholicism that I still want to know though... so I was wondering if I could throw out some more questions...

1) At the Last Supper, did Christ really turn the bread and wine into His body and His blood (literally)? Or does this only happen at Mass? (in remembrance of the Cross and in place of Christ).

2) I've had people continually tell me that Catholism is built on pagan traditions (such as the sign of the Cross) is this true?

Personally, I don't see how this matters. For example, our Celtic art (Celtic cross, the book of Kelts etc) all were taken from barbarians. The church wanted to convert the barbarians but the barbarians didn't want to convert at the expense of loosing all their culture, history, etc. So they incorporated their style of art into Christianity. I've also read about converted people, who live in strict Muslim countries where practicing Christianity is punishable by death, continue Muslim traditions but not in the name of Mohammed (sp?) but in the name of Christ.

3) If a person comes back to Catholicism, do they need to 'do something' in order to get back in?

4) I prefer personal Reconciliation: I don't like going to the priest. Is this okay? I understand that Scirpture tells us to tell our Christian brothers and sisters our faults but I don't see a need for me to go an actual priest. I'm not against going to Reconciliation, may be I'll go some day.. but I prefer to Reconcile myself daily.

Thank you for reading all of this!~

 

[KC Catholic]

First off Mulutka, God Bless you. I hope that your journey continues to be fruitful and a blessing to you.

1) At the Last Supper, did Christ really turn the bread and wine into His body and His blood (literally)? Or does this only happen at Mass? (in remembrance of the Cross and in place of Christ).

Yes

2) I've had people continually tell me that Catholism is built on pagan traditions (such as the sign of the Cross) is this true?

This is a common objection. Wedding rings have pagan origins as well - but they have been made to be something good. God can take things that are bad or misused and make something good of them.

3) If a person comes back to Catholicism, do they need to 'do something' in order to get back in?

Personally, I would go to confession and receive absolution and counsel. I know this is something you don't care to do..but give the Priest a chance. And remember ..it does not have to be face to face - there is the screen!

But go to confession and maybe attend RCIA just as an observer - they welcome anyone, and you would have an opportunity to ask questions that maybe someone new to Catholicism maybe want the answer for.

4) I prefer personal Reconciliation: I don't like going to the priest. Is this okay?

I understand that Scirpture tells us to tell our Christian brothers and sisters our faults but I don't see a need for me to go an actual priest. I'm not against going to Reconciliation, may be I'll go some day.. but I prefer to Reconcile myself daily.

Thank you for reading all of this!~

This is understandable. Remember, the Christian community is just that - a community of believers. When we sin, we sin against God and indirectly we damage our bond with the community of Christ. This bond has to be mended and the Priest is there as a witness for the community. He is also there to counsel you and to provide absolution. Christ forgives and heals you.

I know that you will go when you are ready and I will pray for your protection during this time of discernment.

Peace of our Lord be with you and welcome home!!

 

[thereselittleflower]

Hi Mulutka

Oh, this is so wonderful to hear, and espeically that Mass is becoming alive for you in the spirit!

I will try to answer your questions somewhat . . there is so much that I am sure you will get several responses from others as well!


First, did Jesus turn the bread and wine into his literal flesh and blood at the last supper . . Yes, this is what we believe . . God is not limited to our perception of time . . He is more than able to reach into the past or into the future to even make something that has not happened in time yet actually present in the present moment . .and this is what happened at the last supper . . God reached outside of time to make the flesh and blood of Christ present . . .

Second, regarding Catholicism and Pagan tranditoins . . these beliefs can be traced back tot he 1800's when there was a very famous and much respected book written by Hislop in 1856 "The Two Babylons." . .in it he traced the traditions and practices of Catholicism back to the pre-flood era and occultic and pagan practices then . . his work was heavily footnoted and referenced and accepted as a scholarly and indisputable work for over a century . .

Another author, Woodrow, wrote another book, "Babylon Mystery Religion", late last century using Hislop's book as his main resource .. this new book was also accepted and widely read around the world, even being preferred to Hislop's book as it was in modern english, and sometimes getting confused with Hsilop's work . .

But then, this new author began to hear dissent as to the historical validity of Hislop's work, which at first he simply dismissed, so sure was he that Hislop's work was beyond repute . . but gradually, he realized he had to verify Hislop's original findings . . so he began his quest, even to tracking down original works sited by Hislop and found to his dismay that most of what Hislop wrote was false, could not be proven or substantiated, and could actually be disproven . . Because of his integrity, he pulled his best selling book, at great cost to him, out of print. He went public with his findings and wrote another book regarding what he found . .

The whole argument that Catholicism is tied to pre-flood pagan tranditions, such as th sign of the cross, has been thorougly debunked . .

Those within protestantism who attack the Catholic faith with such arguments are generally unaware that the fish symbol is also a "pagan" symbol among others they use .. pagans have appropriated pretty much every symbol that can be used over the centuries . . that does not invalidate Christian use of them . . otherwise, we would have no symbols at all . .

I have run into, at CF, those who still believe that Hislop's book is beyond repute . .they are not aware of, or choose to ignore, the findings of those who have closely examined his work and debunked it . . so these erroneous beliefs persist and are perpetuated . . hopefully this will help you in discussing such things with others.

Here is a very good article on this very issue I think you will find VERY helpful!

Did the Catholic Church Blend Paganism with Christianity?

http://davidmacd.com/catholic/were_catholics_pagan.htm


There is also online somewhere Woodrow's fairly long article about his findings . . I thought I had it bookmarked, but can't find it right now . .

Hope this is helpful


Peace in Him!

 

[ps139]

It is great to hear from you again!

3) If a person comes back to Catholicism, do they need to 'do something' in order to get back in?

The person has to be absolved from their sins through Confession in order to receive the other Sacraments, such as the Eucharist.

4) I prefer personal Reconciliation: I don't like going to the priest. Is this okay? I understand that Scirpture tells us to tell our Christian brothers and sisters our faults but I don't see a need for me to go an actual priest. I'm not against going to Reconciliation, may be I'll go some day.. but I prefer to Reconcile myself daily.

I understand how you feel. I used to feel the same way. But then I thought of something - why do we sin? It is out of pride. It is us saying "God, my way is better, I don't need to listen to you." So confessing your sins in front of someone is humiliating - and it should be - humility can negate the pride.

I confess my sins directly to God each night. I hope you do not have the impression that the Sacrament of Reconciliation is necessary to be forgiven - it is not. But it is necessary to be absolved. If a sin is like a "-1," forgiven is like a "0" and absolution is like a "+1" in terms of grace. Thats my mathematical explanation .

Anyway, I think that we deserve to be humiliated in confessing our sins because when we did sin we were proud. For that reason I confess face-to-face with the priest.

 

[thereselittleflower]

hi again!

I found a link to Woodrow's own words on this subject of pagan symbols in Catholicism and Hislop's book (and his own that he pulled):

http://users.clarkston.com/rcorson/2babylons.htm

This is a must read for anyone who is dealing with such fallicies!

(It can be found somewhere on CRI's site as well - that is where I originally found it)




Peace in Him!

 

[KennySe]

Hi, Mulutka.
Thank you for sharing your wonderful mass experience with us.

1) At the Last Supper, did Christ really turn the bread and wine into His body and His blood (literally)?

Yes.

The Last Supper was the first Mass.

Here is the Catechism section on "the Sacrament of the Eucharist".
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a3.htm#I

2) I've had people continually tell me that Catholism is built on pagan traditions (such as the sign of the Cross) is this true?

When Paul was in Athens, he pointed at the Greek statue "To the unknown god", and Paul said that he knew who that was, Jesus Christ.

In your question above [which is not your question, but is asked of you by others], the connotation is that the Catholic Church sprang out of paganism.
This is false.

The Catholic Church is built on the Apostles and the prophets, as decribed in "Matthew 16:17-19" and in "Ephesians 2:19-20".

3) If a person comes back to Catholicism, do they need to 'do something' in order to get back in?

Speak with a priest. Ask him.

4) I prefer personal Reconciliation: I don't like going to the priest. Is this okay?

We are to do personal Reconciliation.
But not only personal Reconciliation.

When we accept the authority of the Church, then we must listen to Her.

Again from the Catechism, (and there is more on this subject in the Catechism) I present a select portion.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c2a4.htm#VIII

"VIII. THE MINISTER OF THIS SACRAMENT

1461 Since Christ entrusted to his apostles the ministry of reconciliation,65 bishops who are their successors, and priests, the bishops' collaborators, continue to exercise this ministry. Indeed bishops and priests, by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders, have the power to forgive all sins "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

1462 Forgiveness of sins brings reconciliation with God, but also with the Church. Since ancient times the bishop, visible head of a particular Church, has thus rightfully been considered to be the one who principally has the power and ministry of reconciliation: he is the moderator of the penitential discipline.66 Priests, his collaborators, exercise it to the extent that they have received the commission either from their bishop (or religious superior) or the Pope, according to the law of the Church.67

1463 Certain particularly grave sins incur excommunication, the most severe ecclesiastical penalty, which impedes the reception of the sacraments and the exercise of certain ecclesiastical acts, and for which absolution consequently cannot be granted, according to canon law, except by the Pope, the bishop of the place or priests authorized by them. In danger of death any priest, even if deprived of faculties for hearing confessions, can absolve from every sin and excommunication.69

1464 Priests must encourage the faithful to come to the sacrament of Penance and must make themselves available to celebrate this sacrament each time Christians reasonably ask for it.70

1465 When he celebrates the sacrament of Penance, the priest is fulfilling the ministry of the Good Shepherd who seeks the lost sheep, of the Good Samaritan who binds up wounds, of the Father who awaits the prodigal son and welcomes him on his return, and of the just and impartial judge whose judgment is both just and merciful. The priest is the sign and the instrument of God's merciful love for the sinner.

1466 The confessor is not the master of God's forgiveness, but its servant. The minister of this sacrament should unite himself to the intention and charity of Christ.71 He should have a proven knowledge of Christian behavior, experience of human affairs, respect and sensitivity toward the one who has fallen; he must love the truth, be faithful to the Magisterium of the Church, and lead the penitent with patience toward healing and full maturity. He must pray and do penance for his penitent, entrusting him to the Lord's mercy.

1467 Given the delicacy and greatness of this ministry and the respect due to persons, the Church declares that every priest who hears confessions is bound under very severe penalties to keep absolute secrecy regarding the sins that his penitents have confessed to him. He can make no use of knowledge that confession gives him about penitents' lives.72 This secret, which admits of no exceptions, is called the "sacramental seal," because what the penitent has made known to the priest remains "sealed" by the sacrament."​

M,
it's great to hear from you.
Any questions that you have, please do ask us.

Do come to pray with us in "The Chapel" subforum and do come socialize in the "Pub" threads.

 

[DanceFreak]

ok a lot of people have answered this but I just wanted to expand upon Jesus turning the bread into His body at the last supper.

They were having Passover meal, that goes back when the Israelites killed a lamb put the blood over their doors to be saved and ate its flesh...now we go to New Testament, Jesus is there with them remembering the passover, but this becomes a "new passover" following the traditions of the Jewish religion something new happened. The winde turned into the blood of the lamb (Jesus by which we are saved) and the bread his body, the lamb of God that we ourselves eat.

Throuout the bible there are forshadowings this merely one, maybe I didn't explain it very clearly but hopefully you see the connection and are able to understand that it truly is Jesus' flesh.

 

[Mulutka]

Thanks you to everyone who replied!! As always, everyone provided me with excellent anwers

thereselittleflower-- when I read your link to Woodrow I got sooo excited! Honestly! I don't know why but I felt 'stirred' inside. I'm going to look for his new book. Thank you for the links!! I have a friend who just told me about how he's found a bunch of information that hacks Catholism down (pagan influences) but I haven't told him that I'm actually going to Mass and want to go back to the Catholic Church. I hate how so many protestants claim that the Catholic church is wrong/evil. I think he's one of these types of people.

KC Catholic-- using the screen... hmmmm.. I think you have me trapped here! (ha ha). Like pretty well everyone, I don't really want to face the priest because I'm afraid I'd just start crying and crying and make a total spectical of myself. I know the tears would be of humility and also of great relief (of getting everything off my chest)... ..... .. I think I'm going to really have to pray about this--> pray for God to show me what to do and also that He gives me the gutts to do it too. It's been a long time since I was reconciled... about 13 years ago. I can't remember what I'm supposed to say. To be honest, I'm also a bit afraid of the priest hearing all about my life and then sticking me with a big long list of prayers to say on top of 3 rosaries. I realise that sounds really dumb but I'm being honest here. I guess I should just 'bite the bullet' though and stop being such a lazy wuss.

ps139-- I'm really glad to hear from you too! You had said, "The person has to be absolved from their sins through Confession in order to receive the other Sacraments, such as the Eucharist. Would you mind clarifying what you mean? I've already received Baptism, Reconciliation, Euchrist, and Confirmation... do you mean that I should be reconciled, via a priest, if I want to continue receiving the Euchrist?

KennySe--thanks for posting the section about Confession, from the Catechism, for me. I like how it stresses that priests are to be gentle with those who are confessing (put in simple terms). I suppose the fact that the priest must have heard worse things than what I can tell him is a little bit reassuring.

DanceFreak-- I've never heard the Last Supper being a typology for the Passover.... but it makes a lot of sense.

 

[ps139]

ps139-- I'm really glad to hear from you too! You had said, "The person has to be absolved from their sins through Confession in order to receive the other Sacraments, such as the Eucharist. Would you mind clarifying what you mean? I've already received Baptism, Reconciliation, Euchrist, and Confirmation... do you mean that I should be reconciled, via a priest, if I want to continue receiving the Euchrist?

No problem
To receive any Sacrament (with the exception of Last Rites....but a Confession may precede that anyway...nevermind ) you must be in a State of Grace. This means that you must not be conscious of any mortal sin - if you have committed a mortal sin you must confess and be forgiven and absolved of it. This applies to you and I and the pope - everyone. There are extreme exceptions but they are exceptions. This comes from 1 Corinthians 11:27-29 - Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.

The "unworthy manner" is not being in a state of grace.
The "examination" is the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

You said that you have not been to Confession in 13 years or so...I would guess that you have probably committed a mortal sin at least once in 13 years. If you haven't, kudos to you, but let's face it.....its hard sometimes. Remember, this doesnt mean that you have 13 years worth of unforgiven sins, they are forgiven upon true repentance. But they are not absolved therefore you are not eligible to receive the Sacraments. And if you have been to Mass and received Communion in that time, don't worry, because from what I gather you had no idea about this, and you are not held accountable to a rule you did not know existed. But it is better that you know now.

Hopefully I did not confuse you but let me know if I did .

 

[KC Catholic]

KC Catholic-- using the screen... hmmmm.. I think you have me trapped here! (ha ha). Like pretty well everyone, I don't really want to face the priest because I'm afraid I'd just start crying and crying and make a total spectical of myself.

Mulutka, bless your heart.

That reminds me of the woman who came to Jesus and wiped his feet with her tears and her hair. Christ looked at her with love and compassion and forgave her sins - and he is waiting to do the same for you.

I know the tears would be of humility and also of great relief (of getting everything off my chest)... ..... .. I think I'm going to really have to pray about this--> pray for God to show me what to do and also that He gives me the gutts to do it too.

I, too will pray for peace of heart that you need to make the return to Reconciliation. Remember the story of the Prodigal Son ..God is waiting to put a new robe around you, a ring on your finger and hold a feast in your honor. You are his child and he awaits your return.

To be honest, I'm also a bit afraid of the priest hearing all about my life and then sticking me with a big long list of prayers to say on top of 3 rosaries. I realise that sounds really dumb but I'm being honest here. I guess I should just 'bite the bullet' though and stop being such a lazy wuss.

No, I've heard those same concerns from others who have been away for some time. I cannot predict what your penance will be - but whatever it is it will be good for you spiritually and you will be filled with such joy that it won't even matter if its 3 rosaries or 100 rosaries you will receive absolution and peace.

I hope that we've been helpful and encouraged you. We will pray for you and ask that you do the same for us.

Peace be with you.

 

[Acceptance]

I've had people continually tell me that Catholism is built on pagan traditions (such as the sign of the Cross) is this true?

Matthew 28:19
"...in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit..."

But I guess that's pagan too

 

[panterapat]

There is nothing else on earth that can compare to receiving the Body, Blood Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ in the Most Holy Eucharist.

 

[raptor13]

There is nothing else on earth that can compare to receiving the Body, Blood Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ in the Most Holy Eucharist.

So true, so true.

There is the story of the Catholic talking to his Muslim friend about religion. The Muslim says, "So do you really believe that that little piece of wafer is actually the body of the Almighty God Himself?"

The Catholic says "Well..yes."

The Muslim says, "I really doubt that."

The Catholic gets defensive and says, "I know it's hard to understand.."

The Muslim says, "No, I do not question whether or not its true, but whether or not you really believe it, because if I had believed that, then i would never be able to stop kneeling in amazement and prayer during every Mass.

 

[ps139]

So true, so true.

There is the story of the Catholic talking to his Muslim friend about religion. The Muslim says, "So do you really believe that that little piece of wafer is actually the body of the Almighty God Himself?"

The Catholic says "Well..yes."

The Muslim says, "I really doubt that."

The Catholic gets defensive and says, "I know it's hard to understand.."

The Muslim says, "No, I do not question whether or not its true, but whether or not you really believe it, because if I had believed that, then i would never be able to stop kneeling in amazement and prayer during every Mass.

This is a good point! There is something that they do at my church that I do not really like, and I am wondering if it is done at other churches around the world -

After the consecration, but before getting in line to receive Communion, everyone stops kneeling and sits back down! I don't understand it. I think that we should be kneeling the whole time. Does this bother anyone else?

 

[Aaron-Aggie]

Yes it bothers me

 

[MariaRegina]

... see new thread

Behind the screen Confession and Reception into Catholicism