A questions to atheists

Kleptin said:

Your little "experiment" has a flaw. Does being an Atheist mean that I don't love my family? That I don't value the lives of many of my loved ones over my own?

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Of course you don't, atheists are evil, many of them eat their own children, similar to the homosexuals and muslims.

repent etc.

homosexuals eat their own children? No wonder why I never see homosexuals hanging out with their biological children.

Kleptin said:

homosexuals eat their own children? No wonder why I never see homosexuals hanging out with their biological children.

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Of course !

Mortensen said:

You know that you will die a sertain death within short time. Survival is no option at all. Your family is also doomed to die, if you not press a sertain button. This button will save your dear ones lives, but also take your own life instintly. Would you push it?

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This is a question to see if atheist have morals id assume. Personally, id push the button. I have no reason not to. By the looks of it most other atheist would as well.

Being an atheist does not make you more or less a good person. It's simply a personal choice. What really counts is how much a person can think beyond themselves. Some Christians do this, but I've personally met Christians who don't. Some atheist do this while others do not.

We should all be equal under the eyes of any lord, regardless of what it is we have come to believe. I say any lord because there are so many different religious beliefs, however I believe in no god. I asked too many questions, and did more than enough research to find out that all religions are fixated around a judgmental god.

If I'm wrong, and there is a god I couldn't respect him. Id choose to be thrown away with all the others who were denied love and protection due to the fact that they used there free will to believe what they thought was right. That is what free will is all about, after all.

So if I'm going to hell, or experiencing eternal death I'll do so with a smile, and a clear conscience, felling no guilt for the way I have been allowed by God himself to live and believe.

To me this is far better than following the masses in hope of some great reward, all the while having no heart for the concept of Christianity itself. To tell you the truth I began to feel guilt as a Christian when I suddenly realized that I was in a sense buying gods love and protection by acting and believing in a certain manner.

My idea of a true God is one who See's us all under the same light no matter what, hell would not have come to be, and under no circumstances would you be denied gods eternal protection. I've said this before but I'll say it again, never should a human be punished for all eternity for proving to be humane. Therefore I don't believe in god. I'm an atheist whom according to many will perish at death for my religious beliefs, or lack there of. My beliefs are actually very strong, but include no superficial God, or entity. However I would push that button regardless.

mikenet2006 said:

This is a question to see if atheist have morals id assume. Personally, id push the button. I have no reason not to. By the looks of it most other atheist would as well.

Being an atheist does not make you more or less a good person. It's simply a personal choice. What really counts is how much a person can think beyond themselves. Some Christians do this, but I've personally met Christians who don't. Some atheist do this while others do not.

We should all be equal under the eyes of any lord, regardless of what it is we have come to believe. I say any lord because there are so many different religious beliefs, however I believe in no god. I asked too many questions, and did more than enough research to find out that all religions are fixated around a judgmental god.

If I'm wrong, and there is a god I couldn't respect him. Id choose to be thrown away with all the others who were denied love and protection due to the fact that they used there free will to believe what they thought was right. That is what free will is all about, after all.

So if I'm going to hell, or experiencing eternal death I'll do so with a smile, and a clear conscience, felling no guilt for the way I have been allowed by God himself to live and believe.

To me this is far better than following the masses in hope of some great reward, all the while having no heart for the concept of Christianity itself. To tell you the truth I began to feel guilt as a Christian when I suddenly realized that I was in a sense buying gods love and protection by acting and believing in a certain manner.

My idea of a true God is one who See's us all under the same light no matter what, hell would not have come to be, and under no circumstances would you be denied gods eternal protection. I've said this before but I'll say it again, never should a human be punished for all eternity for proving to be humane. Therefore I don't believe in god. I'm an atheist whom according to many will perish at death for my religious beliefs, or lack there of. My beliefs are actually very strong, but include no superficial God, or entity. However I would push that button regardless.

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Great post! I felt the EXACT same way as a Christian. However, I too left Christianity altogether and became an atheist.

mikenet2006 said:

This is a question to see if atheist have morals id assume. Personally, id push the button. I have no reason not to. By the looks of it most other atheist would as well.

Being an atheist does not make you more or less a good person. It's simply a personal choice. What really counts is how much a person can think beyond themselves. Some Christians do this, but I've personally met Christians who don't. Some atheist do this while others do not.

We should all be equal under the eyes of any lord, regardless of what it is we have come to believe. I say any lord because there are so many different religious beliefs, however I believe in no god. I asked too many questions, and did more than enough research to find out that all religions are fixated around a judgmental god.

If I'm wrong, and there is a god I couldn't respect him. Id choose to be thrown away with all the others who were denied love and protection due to the fact that they used there free will to believe what they thought was right. That is what free will is all about, after all.

So if I'm going to hell, or experiencing eternal death I'll do so with a smile, and a clear conscience, felling no guilt for the way I have been allowed by God himself to live and believe.

To me this is far better than following the masses in hope of some great reward, all the while having no heart for the concept of Christianity itself. To tell you the truth I began to feel guilt as a Christian when I suddenly realized that I was in a sense buying gods love and protection by acting and believing in a certain manner.

My idea of a true God is one who See's us all under the same light no matter what, hell would not have come to be, and under no circumstances would you be denied gods eternal protection. I've said this before but I'll say it again, never should a human be punished for all eternity for proving to be humane. Therefore I don't believe in god. I'm an atheist whom according to many will perish at death for my religious beliefs, or lack there of. My beliefs are actually very strong, but include no superficial God, or entity. However I would push that button regardless.

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Awesome post, that's exactly how I feel as well.

mikenet2006 said:

This is a question to see if atheist have morals id assume. Personally, id push the button. I have no reason not to. By the looks of it most other atheist would as well.

Being an atheist does not make you more or less a good person. It's simply a personal choice. What really counts is how much a person can think beyond themselves. Some Christians do this, but I've personally met Christians who don't. Some atheist do this while others do not.

We should all be equal under the eyes of any lord, regardless of what it is we have come to believe. I say any lord because there are so many different religious beliefs, however I believe in no god. I asked too many questions, and did more than enough research to find out that all religions are fixated around a judgmental god.

If I'm wrong, and there is a god I couldn't respect him. Id choose to be thrown away with all the others who were denied love and protection due to the fact that they used there free will to believe what they thought was right. That is what free will is all about, after all.

So if I'm going to hell, or experiencing eternal death I'll do so with a smile, and a clear conscience, felling no guilt for the way I have been allowed by God himself to live and believe.

To me this is far better than following the masses in hope of some great reward, all the while having no heart for the concept of Christianity itself. To tell you the truth I began to feel guilt as a Christian when I suddenly realized that I was in a sense buying gods love and protection by acting and believing in a certain manner.

My idea of a true God is one who See's us all under the same light no matter what, hell would not have come to be, and under no circumstances would you be denied gods eternal protection. I've said this before but I'll say it again, never should a human be punished for all eternity for proving to be humane. Therefore I don't believe in god. I'm an atheist whom according to many will perish at death for my religious beliefs, or lack there of. My beliefs are actually very strong, but include no superficial God, or entity. However I would push that button regardless.

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Amen !!!

Mortensen said:

You know that you will die a sertain death within short time. Survival is no option at all. Your family is also doomed to die, if you not press a sertain button. This button will save your dear ones lives, but also take your own life instintly. Would you push it?

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A more interesting question might be, "Given a world of Atheists and another world of Christians where all else was held equal and both were in that situation, which world would live longer and happier?"

So, given a question asking people to decide for themselves how they would act in a hypothetical situation, it is somehow an improvement to add a purely speculative element to the matter. They are now asked to gauge the motivations and probably actions of people whom they do not know based solely on the purported cosmological outlook of the personss in question. This is somehow an improvement on the original question.


...I find the notion that people will be more or less likely to push that button in view of their religious outlook rather doubtful, to say the least.

It looks as if there are many good hearted athiest here. The other question ive seen asked is wether or not the athiest comunity lives less fufilling lives due to there lack of beliefe. I personaly think that athiest are to varied to all be calsified as one group. If you believe in god for example, thats what you believe. There are variations in religious beliefs, but you all believe in a supream bieng in one form or another. Athiest on the other hand are free to believe in a number of things. Most find some sort of beliefe system that will bring them great peace of mind. Some however id assume are lost, but many Christians Ive meet are the type that hide under there religious label and go against everything the bible encorages.

So all in all this proves that humans share similarities despite what group they fit into. What it boils down to is the individual. Does your beliefe system work for you? Does it give you piece of mind?

What I believe, works for me and makes me happy. I feel no loss in droping Christianity. Well initialy it actually did hurt, but I have more confidence today than I have ever had. This is because Im confident life does go on and that is the most important thing to realize. Just like those whom believe life goes on in heaven or hell get a sense that death will not be the end, I do as well.

I believe in reincarnation, and for a number of reasons. I plan to make a post in the apologetics forum when I have enough post to do so, talking about reincarnation, to see what others think on the subject.

Now......to be honest.....

wouldn't an Atheist push the button because it is logical to save the most possible people?
I mean, by not pushing the button, not only would several people die, just to keep one person alive- but the person that refrained from pushing the button would have to live with the guilt of having kiled their relatives.

Wouldn't it be much better to make a noble sacrifice than to be selfish and scorned for such callous behaviour by society?

mikenet2006 said:

It looks as if there are many good hearted athiest here. The other question ive seen asked is wether or not the athiest comunity lives less fufilling lives due to there lack of beliefe. I personaly think that athiest are to varied to all be calsified as one group. If you believe in god for example, thats what you believe. .

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Sorry.....

I do find that really rather offensive.

Please, let me explain what I mean by that by using an example.
Imagine a fence.
On one side we have a man, standing, walking around on some grass.
On the other side we have a man, standing, walking around on some grass.

What's the difference between these two men?

The answer: One believes that GOD exists.
The other believes that GOD does not.

Notice how there is a difference between holding a positive belief in regards to God, and a negative belief in regards to God.

The unbeliever is the Agnostic sitting on the fence.
A hardline Atheist requires just as much conviction to state and believe in the lack of a God, as a hardline monotheist does to say that there most definitely is.
This is faith. This is belief.

The lack of belief means that you tend not to hold a view at all- i.e an agnostic.

phsyxx said:

Sorry.....

I do find that really rather offensive.

Please, let me explain what I mean by that by using an example.
Imagine a fence.
On one side we have a man, standing, walking around on some grass.
On the other side we have a man, standing, walking around on some grass.

What's the difference between these two men?

The answer: One believes that GOD exists.
The other believes that GOD does not.

Notice how there is a difference between holding a positive belief in regards to God, and a negative belief in regards to God.

The unbeliever is the Agnostic sitting on the fence.
A hardline Atheist requires just as much conviction to state and believe in the lack of a God, as a hardline monotheist does to say that there most definitely is.
This is faith. This is belief.

The lack of belief means that you tend not to hold a view at all- i.e an agnostic.

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Ok but here is what that analogy lacks. You made two groups where on one side of the fence you have people whom believe in god while on the other you have those whom dont. Now assuming the fact that God is not believed, this allows for one to believe what they want. This makes it hard for anyone who is a Christian to claim what it is we do believe. This primarily because it varies from person to person.

Take it from somebody who has walked on both sides of the fence to be able to make a non bias opinion. I was not set in my beliefs until I was 15 years old or so. I became a christian and remained one untill I was almost 21. I learned alot in that period of time and im now 24. It wasnt until I was 22 that I fell into believeing in reincarnation.

This howeverever is not agnostic. I have always been extreemly curious and opinionated while constantly seeking the truth. In my case I droped Christianity because I was far from agnostic and had a gut feeling that what I believed in was based around lies.

So the fact that I wasnt agnostic, or in otherwords eager to know the truth, and keep an open mind, actually lead me away from Cristianity. This was in no way brought about by lack of imagination, or requiring scientific proof to believe in anything greater than myself.

I cant speak for all athiest, but I can tell you that your wrong when you suggest that we all lack imagination and the desire to believe in great things.

I dont believe in god for a number of reasons, but ill tell you right now very honestly that lack of proof is not one of them. I believe in many things that cant be proved at all if I feel it in my heart and mind to be true. Like life beyond earth for example. Ironicaly the reason I dont believe in god is because I have compassion rather than lack it.

I've read prophesies as well as many other sections of the bible and began to think to myself that we deserve better than to be discarded for screwing up. We are a reflection of Gods own doing and can be expected to fail on the basis of that. If I can understand this while the all mighty does not, it reveals to me a god that I cannot have faith or confidence in. If evil begets evil, God should know nothing but love, period. Should there be punishment for sin? Perhaps. However eternal damnation, or even simply being denied God eternal protection for mistakes made while mortal is obsered in the extreem. Punishment for sin should be temporary as gods attempt to correct the ways of wrong doers. This is the only way you're going to justify punishment in my eyes, and it actually makes sense. This however is not what the bible implicates. It suggest a God who finds it to be just to put siners into a permanent state of damnation, or perhaps just discard there souls at death dening them access into heaven for all eternity, this is the concept of eternal death many have used in an attempt to justify the harsh nature of the God the bible describes that many have come to accept.

Wether it be hell or eternal death the bible has given me a sense of of a supream being who finds it difficult to take care of the people he continues to place here on earth on a daily basis. So what do you do when your planets inhabitants get into trouble, or lose sight of whats important? You do whats easy, you abandon them! This makes about as much sense as a grown woman giving birth to a newborn only to drive it out into the middle of the country and leave it out in the middle of nowhere because at the age of two you decide you no longer know what to do with it.

Not a god im willing to believe in, sorry. So am I agnostic? Not with the thought I have put into what I believe in, and the fact that I did in fact give Christianity a chance. I guess I read to much of the bible and went to church long enough, ironic I know, as this is supposed to bring you closer to god.

I worry about more than my own fate and am willing to risk my soul to believe in something that suggest we all get a second chance, and a third, and fourth, and so on.

phsyxx said:

A hardline Atheist** requires just as much conviction to state and believe in the lack of a God, as a hardline monotheist does to say that there most definitely is.

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**An atheist is an atheist, there are no 'hardline' or 'liberal' atheists, it is a single unambiguous idea - gods do not exist.

My lack of belief in the Christian god takes no more conviction than my lack belief in the 'Peacock Angel' of the Kurdish faith or my lack of belief in Ganesh, Shiva or Allah.

It takes no conviction at all.

phsyxx said:

This is faith. This is belief.

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You're equivocating "belief". Atheists do not have 'faith', defined as belief entirely unsupported by evidence or logic.

If on the other hand you would like to suggest that any 'belief' or 'faith' is religious in its nature, then my 'belief' that the sun will rise tommorow is a religious belief, if I flush the chain on my toilet I 'believe' it will be filled with water, this too is then a religious event.

In fact I have so much 'faith' in my own plumbing skills and almost certainly know the toilet bowl will fill with water that I am sure you could find in this a way to describe me as 'devoutly religious'.

Of course the problem here is you are using the word 'faith' and 'belief' in both their religious sense and their common sense and making no effort to differentiate.


Anyhow, I must go now I am off the pray at the bowl.

NO!!!!!!

Tynan said:

**An atheist is an atheist, there are no 'hardline' or 'liberal' atheists, it is a single unambiguous idea - gods do not exist.

My lack of belief in the Christian god takes no more conviction than my lack belief in the 'Peacock Angel' of the Kurdish faith or my lack of belief in Ganesh, Shiva or Allah.

It takes no conviction at all.



You're equivocating "belief". Atheists do not have 'faith', defined as belief entirely unsupported by evidence or logic.

If on the other hand you would like to suggest that any 'belief' or 'faith' is religious in its nature, then my 'belief' that the sun will rise tommorow is a religious belief, if I flush the chain on my toilet I 'believe' it will be filled with water, this too is then a religious event.

In fact I have so much 'faith' in my own plumbing skills and almost certainly know the toilet bowl will fill with water that I am sure you could find in this a way to describe me as 'devoutly religious'.

Of course the problem here is you are using the word 'faith' and 'belief' in both their religious sense and their common sense and making no effort to differentiate.


Anyhow, I must go now I am off the pray at the bowl.

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No, no ,no ,no NO!

For goodness sake....please!
"I have so much faith in my plumbing skills...."

There is simply no need to be so stupidly sarcastic!
It doesn't make your point any stronger, in fact, it's a flawed logic.
You're not devoutly religious because you believe yourself to be a good plumber- believing in your own skills is belief based on previous EXPERIENCE.

Take for example a man that can jump 6 metres in the long-jump.
He has a gorge laid out in front of him, measuring...ironically, just under six metres wide.
Now...he has faith in his own ability to jump that gorge, he believes he can do so- BECAUSE HE KNOWS HOW FAR HE CAN JUMP.
That is belief based on evidence.
You believe in your own plumbing skills because you have past experience of training and knowledge of good jobs you have done.

THAT MEANS:- faith in being able to do something, because the task at hand requires you to challenge yourself.
Not because you believe you are some form of lavatorial god.

NOW LISTEN.
LISTEN CAREFULLY AND MAYBE YOU WON'T DISREGARD THIS AND OVERLOOK IT.

Atheists do NOT have evidence for a lack of existence of a being.
Monotheists do NOT have 100% certified evidence that a being known as , and equated to as "God", exists.
Pagans and polytheistic beliefs do NOT have evidence that a whole pantheon of higher beings exists.


IT TAKES A CONVICTION TO HOLD THAT BELIEF>
no one set of those groups has more evidence either way than any other.

So, you see, an Agnostic decides NOT to make an assumption...does not go either way on the fence.

An Atheist REQUIRES faith to BELIEVE in the fact that THERE IS NO GOD>
They don't say, "oh...I don't go for this religious stuff."

That doesn't make you an Atheist!
I know plenty of people who believe in God that aren't relgious!
They don't follow any set routine or holy scripture-
they just have faith in the fact that a being that created the world exists- i.e GOD.

Tynan said:

**You're equivocating "belief". Atheists do not have 'faith', defined as belief entirely unsupported by evidence or logic.

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"belief entirely unsupported by evidence or logic."

So where's your evidence for the fact that God doesn't exist?
I mean, wouldn't it be logical to say that, look! Something's here, it exists, it's called the universe...gee...everything has a mother, a mother has a mother....this goes back a long way...the Earth came out of the Sun....sun from a nebula cluster...etc etc...this can't have gone backwards on forever.
Surely a logical conclusion would be to say that something made all this?
Something can't come from nothing surely?
(a fiver says you pull me up on that last point)
So an Atheist DOES have as much conviction in their belief IN REGARDS TO GOD.
Not to any of the hocus-pocus that goes with religion.

I believe- you are the one who is confused.
And, I will not begin praying at your confusion, for that would be stupid.

mikenet2006 said:

Ok but here is what that analogy lacks. You made two groups where on one side of the fence you have people whom believe in god while on the other you have those whom dont. Now assuming the fact that God is not believed, this allows for one to believe what they want. This makes it hard for anyone who is a Christian to claim what it is we do believe.

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So...you're saying that being an Atheist makes it hard for you to be defined by a Christian. You're an Atheist.
When you say "what we do believe", I assume you are implying all the other beliefs that do not involve the one, fundamental belief in a being regarded as "God."
Whether that be the Judeo-Christiano-Islamic God, or simply the concept of a Creator.
My analogy was in terms of;
"God, No God, or I'm not sure."
Not all of the other beliefs that define you as an individual.

mikenet2006 said:

So the fact that I wasnt agnostic, or in otherwords eager to know the truth, and keep an open mind, actually lead me away from Cristianity. This was in no way brought about by lack of imagination, or requiring scientific proof to believe in anything greater than myself.

I cant speak for all athiest, but I can tell you that your wrong when you suggest that we all lack imagination and the desire to believe in great things.

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When did I say that!?
And I'm not talking specifically about Christianity...
It doesn't matter what form of religion you follow, if none at all- if you believe in God, you're on that side of the fence!

mikenet2006 said:

I dont believe in god for a number of reasons, but ill tell you right now very honestly that lack of proof is not one of them. I believe in many things that cant be proved at all if I feel it in my heart and mind to be true.
Like life beyond earth for example.

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Great! I never said you didn't have an imagination...
and I'm actually arguing FOR the fact that Atheists have just as much and as many beliefs as monotheists.
What others are saying about Atheists are that they "lack belief".
That, for me, is TOTALLY untrue- and is a sign of ignorance by those that define atheists as "lack of belief-ers"

mikenet2006 said:

So am I agnostic? Not with the thought I have put into what I believe in, and the fact that I did in fact give Christianity a chance. I guess I read to much of the bible and went to church long enough, ironic I know, as this is supposed to bring you closer to god.

I worry about more than my own fate and am willing to risk my soul to believe in something that suggest we all get a second chance, and a third, and fourth, and so on.

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So you're an Atheist?
Right?
You've made that explicitly clear to me that you don't believe in God.
Right?

For the simple fact that I need a reply to my previous post.

phsyxx said:

Notice how there is a difference between holding a positive belief in regards to God, and a negative belief in regards to God.

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Add to that that a "hardcore atheist" beliefs in the non-existence of countless gods, as well as in the non-existence of countless other mythological characters that are defined out of experiencability. It´s actually hard to grasp how they can summon up the energy for so many beliefs.

You know what I find hard to deal with: Any time any person comes up with a supposedly "supernatural/spiritual/metaphysical" entity, zadong!!!, he forces me to hold a new belief.
IggyTheMagicElf. I don´t believe it. Belief #34.651.

The unbeliever is the Agnostic sitting on the fence.
A hardline Atheist requires just as much conviction to state and believe in the lack of a God, as a hardline monotheist does to say that there most definitely is.
This is faith. This is belief.

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So your disbelief in the FlyingSpaghettiMonster must be equated to your belief in Biblegod?

The lack of belief means that you tend not to hold a view at all- i.e an agnostic.

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There are different common terminologies here.
Many people use agnosticism as a completely different category. It points to lack of knowledge concerning the existence of god, or the explicit conviction that one cannot know about the existence of gods.
This is something different than belief. In this terminology you can be an agnostic atheist and an agnostic theist.
Semantics aside, it would be a good idea to keep in mind that many persons who accept the label atheist, are in fact agnostics if going by your terminology.

I personally don´t belief in the existence of gods (that makes me an atheist), but neither do I belief in the non-existence of gods (that does not make me a theist).