A question

[DeaconDean]

I want to ask a question and let state up front that this is not to be mistaken as one to incite debate. First off, this question needs to be addressed by someone who is a practicing Amish. Second it is just a question, nothing else.

Now having said that, I will show my ignorance in certain Amish/Mennoite beliefs. I was reading in my hometown newspaper an article about some Pennsilvania Amish/Mennoites who were bringing up a lawsuit against the U.S. government. Which to me, seems quite out of character. The newspaper article said that the lawsuit was based on an Amish couple who were suing the government on the matter of immagration and picture taking.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/nation/15872632.htm

The U.S. government on all passports requires a picture of the individual(s). Certain exceptions can be allowed. Seems these individuals were married (while he was in Pennsilvania) and the man was wanting to apply for U.S. citizenship from Canada. But his passports had no picture. He refused to have his picture taken on the grounds of religion. They stated that for them, it would be sacrilege for them to have their pictures taken because they regarded that as making a graven image. Is this true? Is there any truth to this? And could you enlighten me in this area please?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[MrJim]

Not familiar with Amish practices-the mennonite folks I know love their pictures!

I was visiting a mennonite widow I know when a plain mennonite (elderly) fellow came over and was talking about a group picture that he put into a computer and pasted in another picture of a deceased guy so it looked like all were together and I just sat there wondering...

Maybe someone else more familiar with the Amish will be able to weigh in...

 

[Adara]

The chances of any Old Order folks being online here is next to nil, DeaconDean.

But as one who knows of them, I can say that Yes, this is true. Some groups (and keep in mind that there are many, many variants with many different interpretations of the Ordnung -- there is no annual national convention, no central authority) are quite concerned about photos, even government issued ones, for they feel that such a thing could lead away from the central tenet of Christian humility.


As one Amishman put it:

"No, let us not slip gradually, bit by bit, into the ways of the world that lead to an emphasis on pride and personal vanity. When we are gone, let us be remembered not by how broad were our noses, the height of our brows, or the angle of our cheekbones, but by what truly matters --- the lives we have lived and the examples we have left. Dust we are, to dust we shall return. Why frame and embellish and hang on the wall the pictures of this house of clay in which we live? Let us beware lest we permit Self to be exalted becoming unto us a graven image."

 

[ACADEMIC]

I understand some feel that a photo is making an image, an idol.

That is facinating anthropologically, but it is not even so much as close to the Biblical intent behind the commmandment against making idols.

 

[CelticRose]

A number of sociology books have been written on Old Order Amish practices - your library should be able to help you there- & from my reading I understand some Amish feel very strongly about having their photo taken for any reason. Some districts are stricter about that sort of thing than others. What you describe seems quite likely - though normally the Amish stay out of the courts too.

P.S they avoid most technology too so you are extremely unlikey to fing a practising Amish in this forum.

 

[MrJim]

Folks here would have more info, they are a little closer to the Amish than we are:

http://mennodiscuss.com/index.php

They're nice, tell 'em "MrJim" sent ya!

 

[Danfrey]

On a side note, it was an outsider that took the government to court over the Amish only educating their children to the 8th grade. The Amish of the time were not willing to sue in court.

 

[DeaconDean]

Thank you all for your thoughtful answers. I'm glad you didn't look down on me for asking. I was curious as to the valididty of the newspaper reports. And come to think of it, your right, in view of the "technology" issue, I should have know that there would be very little chance of an Amish person visiting this forum. Once again, thank you for not looking down on me because of my ignorance.

May God bless each one of you.

Till all are one.

 

[CelticRose]

You are very welcome.

 

[ACADEMIC]

Till all are one.

Ooh. I like this statement.

This brother in this book said some really improtant things on this matter back in the early 1980s.

 

[ZiSunka]

I know Amish people who have passports and those passports have photos in them.

This issue surprises me because the aversion to having photos taken is a cultural thing and not a religious thing to the Amish. They don't want their images decorating someone's wall because being used decoratively devalues the humanity of the person. Obviously, passport photos aren't being used as decorations or curiosities.

Most Amish I know firmly believe in obeying the law of the land wherever they live, and having a photo in a passport is the law. I'm going to a meeting this weekend where there will be Amish and I will ask what their take on this is.

One young Amish couple I know just returned from a mission trip to Haiti, and I know they got passports for the trip with photos in them, because the woman asked me where to have the photo taken. Our post offices around here now do passport photos and I told her that and that's where she and her husband got their photos taken.