A question with a difference...

The Liturgist · Jul 27, 2023

chevyontheriver said:
FYI, but you probably already knew, a Catholic diocese is supposed to have an exorcist (or even a few exorcists). And very rarely will the name of the exorcist be made public, or even be common knowledge among laity or other priests. I never knew the names of any exorcists in either diocese I have lived in. And it's not the kind of thing you look up in a phone book. Fr. Amorth was indeed an exception in being known.

Then too an exorcist cannot perform an exorcism without the express permission of the bishop. These are not independent agents. They also usually work together with medical personnel, and sometimes require multiple sessions.

The new 'Exorcist' movie is one I doubt I will be seeing. The original had some basis in fact, and although I have not read the book OR seen the movie I was in the building years after the exorcisms were completed and met with people who have had living memories of those days. I think the movie 'Nefarious' is far more realistic and less sensational. But then it had a patsy shrink and a patsy priest who you would NOT want doing your exorcism. I will be going to that movie soon. It's not my genre but Nefarious seemed to get some things right, as did 'The Exorcism of Emily Rose'.

Indeed even the original Exorcist depicted such a severe case of posession it could only be described as Wagnerian, and i have never heard of a demon managing to kill not one but both exorcists, at least in the Orthodox Church exorcisms are expected to be efficacious. It is worth noting that in the early church, far from being an elite office, exorcists were the most junior of the minor orders, ranking below doorkeepers and far below lectors in the pecking order. By the way, as far as I am aware, in the Orthodox Church the need for exorcism is sufficiently rare that they are not appointed on a diocesan level, nor has the need been increasing dramatically, and also frequently if someone has dabbled in the occult they can be considered to have left the church and are to be received through chrismation. This is something where it might be worth asking one of our Orthodox friends like @HTacianas or @prodromos to comment.

Carl Emerson · Jul 27, 2023

The Liturgist said:
And this is probably a missed opportunity, because where the Maori religious leaders are, one should expect Christian church leaders to be there as well, unless the item concerns a tragedy that happend at a specific Maori religious service where only members of the Maori religion were affected (also I daresay in all cases involving the Maori, Maori church leaders should be the ones to make contact, and from my conversations with you I gather that you have considerable confidence in the Maori Anglicans.

Yes... the liturgical service I attend is under the Maori diocese - I agree with you - an opportunity missed.

Carl Emerson · Jul 27, 2023

The Liturgist said:
And this is probably a missed opportunity, because where the Maori religious leaders are, one should expect Christian church leaders to be there as well, unless the item concerns a tragedy that happend at a specific Maori religious service where only members of the Maori religion were affected (also I daresay in all cases involving the Maori, Maori church leaders should be the ones to make contact, and from my conversations with you I gather that you have considerable confidence in the Maori Anglicans.

Just to clarify - the location was a building site - the workers were from several ethnicities. The perpetrator was of Maori descent.

The Liturgist · Jul 28, 2023

Carl Emerson said:
Just to clarify - the location was a building site - the workers were from several ethnicities. The perpetrator was of Maori descent.

Well that explains why someone of the Maori indigenous religion was there. That said its a bit of half-baked PR on their end to send someone and do a service without communicating with representatives of the religions of the victims. On the one hand, sending someone is good, but on the other hand, not coordinating with Christian and other clergy looks bad, assuming of course that the perpetrator was an adherent of the indigenous religion. I don’t want to sound cynical about this, because I am not , but objectively there is a strong PR component to the religious response to tragedy. A classic example of failure in this respect was the immediate response of the more traditionalist Sunni Muslim community to 9/11, which looked half-hearted, especially the response by the Saudi Crown Prince.

A question with a difference...

The Liturgist

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A question with a difference...

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