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A question I don't think creationists will answer.

justlookinla

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Two things here. You're presenting the same misleading and intellectually dishonest argument by referencing the theory of evolution as if it was a generic term and it's not. Second, most Christians do not agree with the inherently atheistic creationist position of Darwinist creationism.
 
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justlookinla

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I'm not making that claim. You are. Post the part where it says that life is the result of "only, totally, completely and solely naturalistic mechanisms..." as you keep claiming it states.

I keep claiming that's the only view allowed and presented in schools. If you know of another creationist view, please post it.
 
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bhsmte

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Hey, you can twist however you like, it's no skin off my nose.

Bottom line, the majority of Christians agree with the TOE.
 
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DerelictJunction

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How can you say it's inherently atheistic?

Darwinist creationism:
The belief that living organisms originate from the specific act of divine creation which was the ensuring that all species of organisms arise and develop through natural selection of small, inherited variations that increase the individuals ability to compete, survive and reproduce.

It has divine creation in its definition...how is that atheistic?
 
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bhsmte

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I keep claiming that's the only view allowed and presented in schools. If you know of another creationist view, please post it.

I didn't know creationist views were taught in science class.

Have any evidence to support this claim?
 
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Delphiki

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I keep claiming that's the only view allowed and presented in schools. If you know of another creationist view, please post it.

Creationist views are religious.

This teaches the Theory of Evolution which makes no claims and takes no side on the duality of natural versus supernatural. It only explains and is limited to what the entirety of the existing evidence indicates and nothing more.

Welcome to Evolution 101!


If you want to wedge the supernatural in there, find evidence of the supernatural, and it will change to include it.

It's that simple, and I think you know it.
 
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Dizredux

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This is incorrect. Historical sciences can be tested as well as any other kind of science. Evidence does not have to be "tested in its own time" or else (for example) geology, astronomy paleontology, archeology, and a fair amount of physics would not be sciences. For any hypothesis or theory be science, it must be able to be tested but there are a number of ways of doing this scientifically.

With the "historical" sciences, testing is usually done in some form of look over there and you will find thus. This is what was done with Neil Shubin finding Tiktaalik roseae. The TOE suggested that this kind of fossil would be found in a certain type of formation and Shubin went there and found Tiktaalik.

The same with archeology, a prediction can be made that in ruins of a particular type of culture certain artifacts will be found and others will not. The scientists go there excavate and see how well their predictions work out.

The idea of splitting science into two types in this manner is advocated by Answers in Genesis but few if any scientists agree with them. All science uses the same process. There are considered to be two general classifications in science but it is more along the lines of "experimental" (Ham calls this observational science) and historical but with no clear dividing lines.

Something to go along with this: What is reproduced are the observations not necessarily the event. How could you research stellar physics if you had to reproduce a sun forming in the lab? What is reproduced and studied are the recordings made of stellar events. The observations are the evidence and they are often observations of events that happened millions of years ago. The same principle holds true for geology and all the rest.

For an archeologist to work by the "in its own time" restriction means they would have to replicate the culture they are studying people and all. No, in archeology, the artifacts are the observations and those are studied in the here and now.

While techniques vary, all science works the same.


Dizredux
 
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justlookinla

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Hey, you can twist however you like, it's no skin off my nose.

Bottom line, the majority of Christians agree with the TOE.
\\

Bottom line, the majority of Christians do not agree with the Darwinist creationist viewpoint that God wasn't involved in any manner in the creation of humanity from a single life form of long long ago.
 
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Dizredux

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I don't know. You are probably describing anti theists more than the general run of non theists. Most non theists will admit that there is no evidence disproving the existence of God just that in the absence of evidence either way they will provisionally not believe in a deity.

Anti theists on the other hand are usually asserting the non existence of a deity. In my opinion, they cannot back that up and are mostly blowing smoke. Why they are anti theists is a whole other question much too complex to get into here.

Just my thoughts though. Others may and can differ.

Dizredux
 
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Delphiki

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Bottom line, the majority of Christians do not agree with the Darwinist creationist viewpoint that God wasn't involved in any manner in the creation of humanity from a single life form of long long ago.


Only because the "Darwinist Creationist" viewpoint of humanity coming from a single life form long long ago is something you made up.

Which, if you read the content at the link below, you would know.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_01
 
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justlookinla

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The position of Darwinist creationism does make claims. It claims that all of life is only, totally, completely, solely by naturalistic processes. No other view is permitted. No other view is allowed. All other views are discarded. There's only one view which is presented in schools, the inherently atheistic view of Darwinist creationism.
 
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justlookinla

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Only because the "Darwinist Creationist" viewpoint of humanity coming from a single life form long long ago is something you made up.

Which, if you read the content at the link below, you would know.

Welcome to Evolution 101!

No, I'm no making it up. Only one viewpoint is allowed in Darwinist creationism.
 
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Delphiki

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You have the link. Show me where that claim is and where "no other view is allowed".

Until then, you are simply lying. How does God sort liars?
 
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justlookinla

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You have the link. Show me where that claim is and where "no other view is allowed".

Until then, you are simply lying. How does God sort liars?

If you know of any other view allowed in schools, other than the Darwinist creationist view, please show me.

Thanks.
 
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DerelictJunction

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The position of Darwinist creationism does make claims. It claims that all of life is only, totally, completely, solely by naturalistic processes.
No it doesn't

Darwinist creationism:
The belief that living organisms originate from the specific act of divine creation which was the ensuring that all species of organisms arise and develop through natural selection of small, inherited variations that increase the individuals ability to compete, survive and reproduce.
See? "Divine creation" right in the definition.
 
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Dizredux

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Bottom line, the majority of Christians do not agree with the Darwinist creationist viewpoint that God wasn't involved in any manner in the creation of humanity from a single life form of long long ago.
And most Christians do not agree with the viewpoint that Jesus and the 16 disciples were beheaded in Rome.

You made yours up, I made up mine. Fair's fair.

Dizredux
 
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Oncedeceived

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There is no objective "twin nested hierarchy" of common descent. This is extremely ambiguous at best. There are a plethora of rescue devices used when these supposed nested hierarchies run into trouble.

The fact that the Nested Hierarchy was developed before Darwin, this is one of non-theists favorite "evidence" for evolution. They claim that it proves that God could not have created life.


True.


Studies are showing that studies of mRNA are finding the classifications are not coming out as expected.

A fine example of changes within limits. Plant and animal breeders found that out decades ago.

Right.


I am always a little surprised when this is brought up in the defense of evolution.
NCSE and TalkOrigins even admit the "homology problem" exists but assure their readers that evolutionists are working on it! Isn't it interesting how all the weaknesses of evolution theory are carefully swept under the rug?

Watch it, you are making an argument from ignorance here according to some.
 
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