A Question For The Ladies

[Dream]

Peace be with you.

One can't help but notice that men have taken the dominant role in the Christian religion. Jesus was a male. All of the twelve apostoles were male. In the early Church men were the ones who spread the Good News. The Bible makes references of how a man should have dominion over his wife. And even today, women are not allowed to be Priests.

Are you ever bothered by any of this? Do you ever have the feeling that you are being looked down upon simply because of your gender that God has chosen for you?

I am not one who looks kindly on the whole feminist movement (for obvious reasons), but I can't help but wonder about the role of women throughout the Catholic faith.

I'd appreciate any input or thoughts you can give me. If this is a touchy subject for you, then forgive me, I didn't mean to cause any anxiety.

 

[cthiax]

Are you ever bothered by any of this? Do you ever have the feeling that you are being looked down upon simply because of your gender that God has chosen for you?

I am not one who looks kindly on the whole feminist movement (for obvious reasons), but I can't help but wonder about the role of women throughout the Catholic faith.

Your question was phrased with great respect and consideration, and I truly appreciate that.

I don't feel that there's any conflict between me having equal rights under human law, and having specific roles God wants me to fulfill within my Church. So women can't be priests - men can't be mothers. God gave us different non-transferrable gifts, that's all.

My Church does not believe that men and women are unequal at all, or that women should be slaves to their husbands or any such nonsense. My goodness, look at how much Mary means to us, in what high esteem we place her! And a Catholic woman is in partnership with her husband, she's not his maid and secretary. In fact, I believe Catholicism in particular has done quite a lot to dignify and sanctify the way women are viewed.

I do believe that in the rush to get a piece of male power (a reality in the secular world as much as in the religious, certainly), the women's movement began to diminish the validity of a woman's traditional roles. If I want to make my home and my family the focus of my life, there must be something wrong with me - I'm not enlightened, I'm brainwashed, I'm not really free - not until I agree with them.

I wish I could say that mentality was outdated, but I get it from even some of my closest friends...yet not a single Catholic has ever given me grief for acting like I'm just as much a child of God, and possessed of just as good a brain, as any man.

Finally, I could never, ever believe that a movement which thinks the problems many women face when pregnant are solved when we make murdering her child legal and easy is one which has solid intellectual (let alone moral) ground under it. Shall we put an end to murder itself by killing everybody? Hey, problem solved!

Abortion doesn't make the problems that lead to a pregnancy being a crisis, rather than a cause for celebration, go away, and I rather think that by enabling them it makes them much worse. Any group with this logical inconsistency at the core of its philosophy can count me out.

 

[krstlros]

Dear DT:

Thanks for your post, it was very well worded and has great sensitivity on the subject.

One can't help but notice that men have taken the dominant role in the Christian religion. Jesus was a male. All of the twelve apostoles were male. In the early Church men were the ones who spread the Good News. The Bible makes references of how a man should have dominion over his wife. And even today, women are not allowed to be Priests.

Are you ever bothered by any of this? Do you ever have the feeling that you are being looked down upon simply because of your gender that God has chosen for you?.

For my part, I am happy in my role in my Church. When I was a little girl, I was always envious of the boys who were able to be serving at the Altar and prayed for the day when the Church hierarchy would see fit for females to be alowed to become altar servers. Now, at age....well, let's just say I'm well over age age of reason......I am now an altar server and am one of the designated MC's for my Parish.

But I also would like to note, it was never my desire to be an Ordained as a Priest.

I have never felt slighted because of my gender. It has always been my belief that God wills events to happen within His Church in His own time. And if in some future, which may or may not occur in my lifetime, things will change in different areas of the Church then so be it. Will there be a whole lot of controversy in it? You bet. In any change, there will be those who will feel that it is wrong and an equal number will feel that is right. It is all part of change. Whether it be rigtht or wrong, only God and time will tell.

The thing that I've also learned, is life with in the Church is not the same as life in the secular world. People must remember that the Catholic Church is not a democracy. If you're looking for that, you're in the wrong place. Should change be faught for? Absolutely. But with all things within the Catholic Church, change comes slowly as it should be. As far as I can tell, when change comes, it is always for the good of God's people. And those who resist the changes will be fighting tooth and nail.

Yes, it all seems that men are in charge of everything. But if you read deeper within the scripture, it is always the women who are the nurturers and caretakers of family and society.

And remember, when Jesus' empty tomb was discovered, it was a woman, not a man, who was the first to announce to the disciples the resurrection of our Lord. To me, that is a symbol of women's importance in God's Kingdom.

 

[Ann M]

[bible]1 Corinthians 7:3-4[/bible]

[bible]Ephesians 5:21-33[/bible]

[bible]Luke 7:37-48[/bible]

Wonderful question, and totally relevant in today's world of the "I want" attitude. To be honest when one looks closely at the Bible it is easy to recognise that both sexes are represented, and each is entrusted with a duty. Whilst Christ is a man, and so are the Apostles, there are still a number of females written about in the Gospels: Mary, Mary Magdalene, Martha & Mary, the widow, the prostitute, etc . And then in the letters we find mention of a number of females including Timothy's mother and grandmother, Pheobe, Julia and Olympias to name a few.

As a Catholic, I have found that we are more likely to be honoured for being women, then to be looked down upon. For whilst many a Church is run by the men of the Church community, it is through a very strong female presence behind them that many things get accomplished. We are nuturers and whether it be child or project, we will step forward to do the job.

 

[PolskiKrol]

men have taken the dominant role in the Christian religion

I recently gave the Blessed Mother total authority over my life. Is not just men who have a leadership role.

 

[Irenaeus]

Polski,

So have I. Welcome to the army.

 

[Irenaeus]

No women = no men or women.

Nuff' said.

 

[Jasta]

I recently gave the Blessed Mother total authority over my life.

So have I. Welcome to the army.

wait a minute. oh... I see what you guys are doing!

Irenaeus> dude, guess what
PolskiKrol> ?
Irenaeus> Jasta is lurking OBOB again
PolskiKrol> lol
Irenaeus> I know
PolskiKrol> ok ok let's see if he's had his coffee
Irenaeus> ya
PolskiKrol> check this out



I thought the teaching re: Mary & the Saints is that they had intercessory power, in that they could petition God for you alongside your own petitions. How (where? CCC?) is Mary said to have any influence or control, let alone authority over your life?

just a question regarding the Teaching. Not trying to debate



VVV agreed!

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

"So women can't be priests - men can't be mothers. God gave us different non-transferrable gifts, that's all."

Great thoughts!

 

[Epiphanygirl]

One only has to look at nature around us to see that everything has its place and function, God made us that way. For me to be upset about men doninating stories in the Bible, well, I would be questioning God's intent and authority. I fully submit, so I have no problem!
Proof that stepping outside of God's plan is bad is all around us. One only has to look at the decline of marriage, lack of obedience in children(respect) how we treat the elderly,and what is "popular" and accepted in society in general.
"A place for everything, everything in its place"....

 

[marciadietrich]

wait a minute. oh... I see what you guys are doing!

Irenaeus> dude, guess what
PolskiKrol> ?
Irenaeus> Jasta is lurking OBOB again
PolskiKrol> lol
Irenaeus> I know
PolskiKrol> ok ok let's see if he's had his coffee
Irenaeus> ya
PolskiKrol> check this out



I thought the teaching re: Mary & the Saints is that they had intercessory power, in that they could petition God for you alongside your own petitions. How (where? CCC?) is Mary said to have any influence or control, let alone authority over your life?

just a question regarding the Teaching. Not trying to debate



VVV agreed!

To my understanding, consecration to Mary is another way of consecrating your life to God and Jesus Christ, Son of God and Son of Mary. Because Catholics consider Mary's will to be in perfect union of that of her son, in consecrating yourself to her, you consecrate youself to Christ by following her example, asking for intercession. Also, Mary is considered a type of the Church so this also means following the teachings of the Church that Christ left to care for us.

Perhaps the other gents can go further on that, but for what I understand on the issue.

Marcia

 

[anawim]

One can't help but notice that men have taken the dominant role in the Christian religion. Jesus was a male. All of the twelve apostoles were male. In the early Church men were the ones who spread the Good News. The Bible makes references of how a man should have dominion over his wife. And even today, women are not allowed to be Priests.

Being a priest is about sacrifice. Each in our own way is called to sacrifice, and it's not easy.

Are you ever bothered by any of this? Do you ever have the feeling that you are being looked down upon simply because of your gender that God has chosen for you?

The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world.

I am not one who looks kindly on the whole feminist movement (for obvious reasons), but I can't help but wonder about the role of women throughout the Catholic faith.

You mean we're not in charge? GASP

 

[Dream]

Thank you all for your responses. I enjoyed the optimism everybody had.

 

[PolskiKrol]

let alone authority over your life?

I can best sum it up as being consecrated to Jesus through Mary. I keep saying this on the forum but just as Jesus came to us through her, so we can go back to Him through her. Mary is the perfect creation, and the nature of that perfection is to direct us to Jesus. To consecrate our lives to the perfect creation is to consecrate our lives to perfection Himself.

 

[karla]

Not at all. I look at it this way, God chose Mary, an ordinary girl, to do an extraordinary thing - become the Mother of Christ. He could have done it any way he chose - after all He is God - yet He chose a woman to bear the Christ child. That in itself speaks volumes as to what an important role a woman and women have in the eyes of God.

 

[Ann M]

He could have done it any way he chose - after all He is God - yet He chose a woman to bear the Christ child.

The images this brings to mind are too much for 7am.

 

[Veritas]

I recently gave the Blessed Mother total authority over my life. Is not just men who have a leadership role.

I fear that our Protestant brothers and sisters may misinterpret "gave the Blessed Mother total authority over my life". As a Christian, you can give Christ "total authority" over your life, but the role of the Blessed Mother would certainly be welcomed in following Christ!

 

[krstlros]

For me, the example of the Blessed Mother is one who totally gave herself to God's will. Didn't question why, just said to the Angel Gabriel, "May God's will be done onto me."

To give ourselves to the Blessed Mother is to allow her to give us the strength to do God's will. She has no more power than what God has given her.

 

[PolskiKrol]

She has no more power than what God has given her.

Well said. God has given her many graces.

 

[CarolineBlue]

I believe that Men and Women are equal but I have to say, a lot of the sexism that exists in the world today is because some follow the Old Testament Only. Women were supposed to cover their hair and the whole being submissive to husbands thing has been used against women. It's hard for women in marriage to make a decision with their husband together if the husband wants it all his way and the wife simply has to submit to that. There's even a part in The Bible about wives not keeping sex from their husband, which is wrong because you may not feel like it and if a husband forces himself on his wife, it's rape plain and simple.

The way having sons is glorified by God makes me as a woman feel insignificant. Mary, Our Blessed Mother, is glorified by God only because she gave birth to Jesus and She was spared childbirth pain because she was His mother. Every other woman has to struggle every month through painful menstruation plus we have to work just as hard as men with not as much pay.

I am angry also that God made men stronger physically-and that violence against women is so rampant in the world because few of us are trained to defend ourselves against someone so much stronger naturally because God made men that way. God wouldn't have wanted men to abuse that power but they do-and women and children suffer for that.

I can't question why God makes males appear more important and sons to be much more important than daughters in The Bible-something deep down tells me Jesus loves me but there's no way I can make sense of His obvious preference for males and the way He speaks about Sons.

It's confusing and hurtful because even within the Church the Nuns give up everything and yet the Priests can still drink, see movies, interract with people while the Nuns are away from all that and have a vow of poverty.

It does hurt me that women, even in the church, are made to feel insignificant and in the world we are aswell.

The feminist movement would be a good thing so long as it wasn't about hating men-I don't hate anyone but I do believe women should have equal pay and be treated well and that any man who abuses his strength should go to gaol for a very long time. Prison sentences are laughable which is why you always hear of domestic violence and rape. It is seen as less a crime as stealing and that is wrong.

I want God to explain why things are as they are and I feel like life is bleak and that I will have it harder simply because I am a woman-already I have felt the sting of sexism in the workplace where I was excluded simply for being a woman when I was otherwise capable for the job. It hurts and that is why there is a feminist movement-some women are standing up but it is important to do that whilst also being aware that being a Mother is just as important to some as being a businesswoman. I love kids but I do want to travel and advance in my career before I have children. That doesn't make me a feminist-it makes me a person who wants equal opportunites for all.

Just because women are the ones who have to go through birth, doesn't mean we must do it and that we can't have other dreams or a career. And those that do choose to be full time Mothers are doing nothing wrong either-but a woman should at least be able to choose and to also know her work is as valuable as a mans' is. Our governments are against females otherwise we would all get equal pay. Even sportswomen don't get as much money as men.