A question for my CF friends

I'm speaking in support of the faith group, not contradicting it. I'm not debating anything--I'm pointing out something I see as problematic in reference to the rules of this faith group. Trying to tell me to go away just because I don't identify as a Christian, even when I'm attempting to promote Christian values, isn't very kind.

seeingeyes said:

Or maybe it's because it's not wrong? Just a thought.

Why do people always wanna make up new sins? Don't we have enough to contend with?

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It is wrong, and nobody's making up a new sin.

And don't forget that these are youth *leaders* and have influence over the kids they're trying to lead. This makes me think of:

It doesn't even matter so much if there's actual fornication going on, it has the appearance of evil. It doesn't matter if others have had such living arrangements and never fell, it has the appearance of evil. The leaders are quietly teaching the kids that this lifestyle is ok. Can you imagine what the parents of these kids would think if they knew what was going on?

And let's not forget that they're lying about it besides.

The Church must police itself. The Church is not ours but Christ's. We are to live by His rules to prepare ourselves as a virgin bride. When the Church is involved in trash like this, it's undermining our mission.

I don't get why it has the appearance of evil. The only quotes I've seen to show that males and females being roommates is a sin don't even say that--they say not to do anything that could offend someone. Is that really the basis for accusing these people of being sinful? You can't do anything that might offend someone?

versesvsvices said:

I'm speaking in support of the faith group, not contradicting it. I'm not debating anything--I'm pointing out something I see as problematic in reference to the rules of this faith group. Trying to tell me to go away just because I don't identify as a Christian, even when I'm attempting to promote Christian values, isn't very kind.

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You're debating me, and telling me what is or isn't appropriate for me to do:

"If you feel this way, then don't live with someone of the opposite sex. It's inappropriate to try and force your moral code into the personal lives of others."

If you want to have a private discussion, that is fine. However, this isn't a thread (or a forum) for nonbelievers to debate on what they feel is right or wrong for Christians to do, especially in regards to an interpretation of how scripture instructs us to behave. There are plenty of other places in CF where you can do that.

You're right, this isn't the place for us to discuss whether or not we should be having this conversation. I wish you wouldn't've brought it up (at least in the thread) in the first place, but either way I don't want to derail this thread any further so I'm done discussing it. I'm promoting the teachings of Jesus, and if you can't overlook the fact that I'm supporting the teachings of Jesus while believing the book itself to be fiction, you're welcome to ignore me. I like Jesus, and I don't think gossiping and judging people like this is very WWJD.

I don't see why you have to be so mean about it. :/

versesvsvices said:

You're right, this isn't the place for us to discuss whether or not we should be having this conversation. I wish you wouldn't've brought it up (at least in the thread) in the first place, but either way I don't want to derail this thread any further so I'm done discussing it. I'm promoting the teachings of Jesus, and if you can't overlook the fact that I'm supporting the teachings of Jesus while believing the book itself to be fiction, you're welcome to ignore me. I like Jesus, and I don't think gossiping and judging people like this is very WWJD.

I don't see why you have to be so mean about it. :/

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I'm sorry for offending you. I am not trying to be mean to you, I am simply informing you of the rules. If you created your own thread, I wouldn't have said anything. The problem is that you have decided to start a debate with me in a thread where a Christian is asking other Christians for advice on what the scripture says about cohabitation. A debate on whether it's even appropriate to have this discussion, based on your interpretation of scripture, is not productive to the conversation.

We are not gossiping, we are discussing whether it is a sin for unmarried men and women to live together. And you are not actually promoting the teachings of Jesus, because you have some very mistaken ideas about what He taught. I do not blame you for this; without the Holy Spirit, it is impossible for you to understand scripture.

thesunisout said:

I'm not making up new sins..the word of God says it is wrong. If you don't agree, then you'll need to correct me on my interpretation of these scriptures:

1 Thessalonians 5:22

Abstain from all appearance of evil.

A situation of an unmarried man and woman living together gives the appearance of evil. Many people are going to look at that and assume they have a sexual relationship. Whether it is true or not makes no difference; according to this scripture, we must avoid doing anything that even seems like it could be morally questionable.

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"Avoid every kind of evil." NIV
"Abstain from every form of evil." ESV
"abstain from every form of evil." ASV
"Abstain from all appearance of evil." KJV

This verse means 'stay away from evil' or 'when evil appears, you stay away', not 'don't ever even look like it's possible that maybe you might do something evil'. That's absurd. To someone outside my house, it might look like I'm surfing porn. Should I get off the computer?

And how could we ever hope to walk with Christ while following this newly proscribed law? There were plenty of folks who thought he must be sinning because of the people he hung out with. If this is a law, Jesus surely broke it.

thesunisout said:

Ephesians 4:27

and give no opportunity to the devil.

Living with roommates of the opposite sex has so much potential to lead to sin that it scarcely needs to be explained. Living together with someone is intimate, and you see and experience the intimate details of peoples lives. No matter how careful you are, you will end up seeing things you shouldn't see, and hearing things you shouldn't hear. When you become so intimately familiar with someone, temptation to sin will never be far behind. This is giving enormous opportunity to the devil.

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Does it? I don't know that roommates become 'intimately familiar' with each other. Mostly they just yell about who ate their food and who left that pile of laundry by the door. Though that might certainly 'give the devil a foothold', because the context of that verse is anger.

thesunisout said:

1 Corinthians 8:9

Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak.

Regardless of your amount of self-control, there are plenty of Christian brothers and sisters who do not possess the fortitude necessary to handle that kind of temptation to sin. You set up a stumbling block for such Christians who might see you doing this and think its okay.

Let's deal with the scripture. As Christians we are called a higher standard; to deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Him. We must discern everything to see if it matches up to the word of God. If it doesn't, we should walk away. God says be holy as I am holy, and to do that we have to follow His word and not our own desires, or what we think is right.

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I absolutely agree that we should not cause our brother to stumble with our freedom. But that means we must have that freedom first. If you say that individuals of opposite genders sin by living in the same house, then we don't have that freedom and this verse doesn't apply.

As Christians, we are called to a higher standard. Including not brow-beating each other with non-sins. Isn't this what the Pharisees did to Jesus?:

"Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

"Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:"

“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men." (Matthew 15)

RINO 72 said:

Someone at my church is a youth leader,she has moved in with another youth leader, both single/strait. No problem there, however now, another member of the youth ministry has moved in with them, he is single/strait. Obviously the issue here is can a single male move in with two single females and all remain youth leads? The youth pastor and lead pastor have gone to all of them separately and asked that he not move in with them and they all lied to them and said he wouldn't, all the while he has been living with them for months. I have no reason to think anything is going on but can see how it could give off the appearance of something kinda funky. Many in the ministry have offered this young man a place to stay but he has refused. So a little feedback would be great. Thanks

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I would think this not proper and church leadership should step in and correct this.

We're admonished in the scriptures to "avoid the very appearance of evil" in 1 Thess 5:22. I think this sets a bad example for the youth, and if "nothing's going on", why lie about it?

Abstain from the "appearance of evil" -- it looks bad - don't do it !

how simple can it get ?

if he refuses to comply he has authority issues and problems with rebelliousness. remove him from leadership . also very simple .

if he repents ,moves out and doesn't make a big deal of it but displays humility- he'll make a good leader .

its a rebellious heart that reasons away simple willing obedience .
and it is a modern stance of the exceptionally evil times in which we live that would even for a moment consider this to be an acceptable practice for a youth leader.

the situation:

"The youth pastor and lead pastor have gone to all of them separately and asked that he not move in with them"

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

"And why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" - Luke 6:46

RINO 72 said:

Someone at my church is a youth leader,she has moved in with another youth leader, both single/strait. No problem there, however now, another member of the youth ministry has moved in with them, he is single/strait. Obviously the issue here is can a single male move in with two single females and all remain youth leads? The youth pastor and lead pastor have gone to all of them separately and asked that he not move in with them and they all lied to them and said he wouldn't, all the while he has been living with them for months. I have no reason to think anything is going on but can see how it could give off the appearance of something kinda funky. Many in the ministry have offered this young man a place to stay but he has refused. So a little feedback would be great. Thanks

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We are to avoid even the appearance of evil but I wouldn't know if the arrangement is evil. There is the appearance of impropriety but maybe nothing is improper. Maybe this is something that needs to be covered by policy.

I see nothing wrong with them roommating together, but would be more concerned about them lying about it.

As leaders they should avoid such situations as it could make the church look bad.

However I think it is wrong to assume that unsupervised mixed gender situations lead to sexual sin. In fact I think emphasizing that makes the problem worse, as people see the opposite gender as potential sex partners instead of brothers and sisters in Christ.

Also we do not know if the young man in the story may struggle with same sex attraction, in which case he is less tempted living with women.

seekingsister said:

As leaders they should avoid such situations as it could make the church look bad.

However I think it is wrong to assume that unsupervised mixed gender situations lead to sexual sin. In fact I think emphasizing that makes the problem worse, as people see the opposite gender as potential sex partners instead of brothers and sisters in Christ.

Also we do not know if the young man in the story may struggle with same sex attraction, in which case he is less tempted living with women.

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I think most of the posts in this thread have made assumptions of one kind or another and we need to stick to the OP question (which is what your first sentence above did).

As a former youth leader (when I was single) of several years, I would have NEVER thought it okay to room with the sisters that I was leading with. The fact that rooming with females isn't "technically" a sin in-and-of-itself was never something I considered because I knew what it would look like. My main concern during that time was for the young men and women that God had entrusted to my care, and that would absolutely have led a good number of them astray.