A question for atheists

Holoman said:

It is a similar thing to what someone asked of me, if tomorrow it was revealed Christianity was a lie and Islam was true, without a shadow of a doubt, I would have some issues with some of what he has commanded, I don't know if I could ever love him truly, but I would bend the knee because i certainly wouldnt want to be on his bad side.

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I can understand that. We are only finite beings, and the idea that one might be tortured for an eternity isn't appealing.

It's difficult to know what one might do in the situation. One could feign indifference, or even worship, but I'd think that an omniscient God would catch on anyway and torture you just for kicks. And watching you act spinelessly might be part of such a being's sadistic enjoyment.

I suppose that one could play along and hope for an opportunity to depose such a deity. I'm not sure how that would work out if such a deity is omniscient, though. Even Buffy would have difficulties with this one.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Holoman said:

I have a question for those that believe there is no god, just something I have been wondering about rather than a debate.

If tomorrow, the God of Christianity revealed himself to you in a way that was undeniable and left you with no doubt as to his existence and Christianity's truth, what would you do?

The reason I ask is many seem to have moral objections to the actions of the God of the Bible, so I'm interested if they would retain those objections and reject God, or if they would become Christian and worship him in order to get to heaven (or some other reason).

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We would all believe.

What would you do if he told you the bible was wrong and you should be Pagans, the Druids had it right?

And before you say that would never happen, consider we have a better reason to say your god will never appear.

Holoman said:

Thanks for the replies. To clarify, I'm interested in responses from both people who believe there is no God and those who aren't convinced there's a God.

I also, by Christianity, mean whatever you understand that currently to be or say Roman Catholic if you want a specific denomination, and that the revelation included the fact that the Bible is true (though not all literally) but the things attributed to God in it, along with the laws of Leviticus etc where all verified as divine commands.

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If there were a god, whose son got very upset with the merchants in the temple. Given the History of the RCC he would be back destroying the Vatican.

I suppose I am interested in whether people have such a moral objection to the God of the Bible that they would reject him even if they knew for certain he existed, or if they would do what they had to do to save their own skin.

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I have a moral objection to churches. The RCC is one of the worse, in my opinion, in the Christian sector of religions.

As for a moral objection to god of the bible. Of course I have a moral objection to a god that so easily kills innocents. But as most of the stories are fiction, natural events or warlords claiming it's god's orders. It's hard to blame a god.

It is a similar thing to what someone asked of me, if tomorrow it was revealed Christianity was a lie and Islam was true, without a shadow of a doubt, I would have some issues with some of what he has commanded, I don't know if I could ever love him truly, but I would bend the knee because i certainly wouldn't want to be on his bad side.

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Why do you think the Christian god is so kind? Given the History and laws of the bible.

You're blaming Muslims for being cruel, yet forgiving Christians for the same crimes. The RCC is about to make a Pope, who sat in power over a time of covering up child abuse, a saint. That's an insult to all the abused children.

Holoman said:

Thanks for the replies. To clarify, I'm interested in responses from both people who believe there is no God and those who aren't convinced there's a God.

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I´m in the latter group.

I also, by Christianity, mean whatever you understand that currently to be or say Roman Catholic if you want a specific denomination, and that the revelation included the fact that the Bible is true (though not all literally) but the things attributed to God in it, along with the laws of Leviticus etc where all verified as divine commands.

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Ok.

I suppose I am interested in whether people have such a moral objection to the God of the Bible that they would reject him even if they knew for certain he existed,

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Not quite sure what you mean by "reject him" - I would certainly become a theist (i.e. believe that this God exists).
[/quote]or if they would do what they had to do to save their own skin.[/quote]
I.e. unconditionally follow what said God commands me to, in order to avoid fire and brimstone?
I like to think that I wouldn´t (integrity and all that) - then again I don´t know how much of a hero I actually am.

Holoman said:

I have a question for those that believe there is no god, just something I have been wondering about rather than a debate.

If tomorrow, the God of Christianity revealed himself to you in a way that was undeniable and left you with no doubt as to his existence and Christianity's truth, what would you do?

The reason I ask is many seem to have moral objections to the actions of the God of the Bible, so I'm interested if they would retain those objections and reject God, or if they would become Christian and worship him in order to get to heaven (or some other reason).

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I'm a non-believer because I'm a skeptic. I see no positive evidence that supports the claims of Christianity (or any other religions for that matter), therefore I cannot accept the claims.

My position is a necessarily tentative one though. It is open to new evidence and I'm open to having my mind changes, which is part of the reason why I particpate here.

If I was presented with direct, positive evidence that the God of Christianity did exist, then I'd believe in the existence Christian God. This DOES NOT mean that I would accept all the claims of the Bible, nor all the doctrinal claims of various Christian denominations (many of which are mutually exclusive anyway).

Evidence for the existence of the Christian deity is not necessarily evidence that the stories in the Bible are true. These are two separate things. Acceptance of one claim does not mean I then have to accept all subsequent claims. Its not a package deal. Claims such as the existence of heaven and hell, souls, unicorns, dragons, behemoths, original sin, human resurrection and the like are not immediately rendered valid by the existence of the God of Christianity.

Accepting "Christianity's truth" - whatever that actually means - for me would not mean adopting positions that cannot be logically supported or are in direct contravention of available evidence.

Unless I had direct evidence to the contrary, I would continue to believe that most of the bible is the product of failible men writing without divine inspiration.

The best available evidence suggests that most of the Old Testament biblical stories are either allegorical or metaphorical tales told by bronze age peoples ascribing agency to things about which they had little knowledge, are glorifications of their slanted takes on their own oral histories, retelling of far older myths or were morality tales not meant to be taken literally. The New Testament is on more solid historical footing, but I would need comprehensive evidence in order for me to accept all its claims at face value.

On top of this, there are actions by God in the Bible that I do find morally repugnant - from inherited sin and physical punishment of innocents all the way up to multiple acts of murder at direct divine command and world clearing genocide.

So, even if I accepted the existence of such a divine being and believed as such, I would not necessarily accept that I had to worship or praise it, or that it had any say in how I operate my life.