A question about St. Augustine

[marvmax]

I have always thought that St. Augustine was accepted as a Saint by both the Eastern and Western Catholic Churches. However, from reading posts and links that I've found here it seems that St. Augustine is not held in very high esteem by the EOC. If fact some of the comments were so strong that I thought I had been incorrect in my assumption so I actually did some research to see what was up. (OK so all I did was look at the Wikipedia.). It looks like the EOC does accept St. Augustine.

My questions then are why when I was reading EOC posts and links did I suddenly question if you guys accepted St. Augustine as a Saint? Is this a situation where the official stance is different from how the rank and file feel?

I'm sorry I can't document where I read this. It is something that caught my attention and I've been wondering about it ever since.

 

[fuerein]

This link gives a thorough explanation of the Orthodox view of St. Augustine's writing/sainthood.

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article8153.asp

 

[RobNJ]

And from the OCA site

ANSWER:

While the Orthodox Church does accord Augustine of Hippo the title "saint" and recognizes the vast number of theological works he produced, Augustine was not as well known in the Christian East. His works were not translated into Greek until the 14th century; as such, he had little or no influence on mainstream Orthodox thought until 17th century Ukraine and 18th century Russia, primarily through the influence of western clergy and the establishment of theological schools which relied on Latin models with respect to curricula, text books, etc.



http://www.oca.org/QA.asp?ID=4&SID=3



QUESTION:

Can you comment on this: "Blessed Augustine is respected in the Orthodox Church as a teacher, because of his wonderful defense of the Church's teachings against the various heresies of his time, but because of his errors in his teachings about predestination in the salvation of man, he was never considered a saint."


ANSWER:

Concerning whether or not the Orthodox Church regards Augustine as a saint, I offer three points for your consideration:

In "Historical Dictionary of the Orthodox Church" by the most eminent Orthodox theologians Father Michael Prokurat and Priestmonk Alexander Golitzin, it clearly states that Augustine of Hippo is a "bishop, theologian, Saint." [See page 48.]

It is quite well known that his feast day is celebrated on June 15 [New Calendar]/ June 28 [Old Calendar], albeit he is listed as the final saint for the day, following several others. To be sure of this I checked several Orthodox calendars and listings of saints, including the "Pravoslavnyj Tserkovnyj Kalendar' 1998" ["Orthodox Church Calendar"] published by the Patriarchate of Moscow [which indeed is very Orthodox!], in which he is not only clearly listed as "the Blessed Augustine" on the calendar for June 15/28 but also in the "Alfabitnyj spisok imen svjatykh" ["Alphabetical list of saints' names"], from which baptismal names are derived. You will note that he bears the title "the Blessed." Perhaps the person who categorically stated that Augustine is not venerated as a saint is based on the fact that within the Roman Catholic Church a person who has been "beatified" but not yet "canonized" is always referred to as "the Blessed." In Orthodoxy there is no such preliminary state of "beatification" as a step on the way to canonization. In fact, one of the most recently glorified saints of the Orthodox Church, Xenia of St. Petersburg, is always referred to as "the Blessed Xenia." As I said, this should not be confused with the term "Blessed" as defined in Roman Catholicism. I might also add that Augustine of Hippo is the only individual with this name which appears on the Church calendar. Further, it is not uncommon to find monastics which bear the name Augustine, such as the present Archbishop Augustine of Lviv, Ukraine, in whose office there is an icon of the Blessed Augustine.

It should be noted that, in terms of a formal "canonization" or "glorification" of Augustine by the Orthodox Church there is of course no record; on the other hand, the glorification of saints in Orthodoxy involves a radically different "process" than it does within Roman Catholicism.

In the old chapel of the Three Hierarchs at Saint Vladimir's Seminary, Crestwood, New York, there was an icon of Saint Augustine.

http://www.oca.org/QA.asp?ID=5&SID=3

 

[paleodoxy]

St. Augustine, for all of the good things he did and said, published speculations during his lifetime that laid the groundwork for the filioque and enabled a significant departure from the Church's understanding of original sin.

To his credit, his writings on the double procession of the Spirit were written before the third and fourth ecumenical councils placed permanent barriers against altering the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed. Nevertheless, his writings in this area did constitute a departure from what the Church had passed down.

Augustine redeemed himself towards the end of his life in a book called Retractions in which he admitted some errors, and apologized in advance for anything he may have said that turned out to oppose the universal mind of the Church.

 

[marvmax]

This link gives a thorough explanation of the Orthodox view of St. Augustine's writing/sainthood.

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article8153.asp

That's a good article. Sounds like the writer considers him a saint.

 

[marvmax]

And from the OCA site

ANSWER:

While the Orthodox Church does accord Augustine of Hippo the title "saint" and recognizes the vast number of theological works he produced, Augustine was not as well known in the Christian East. His works were not translated into Greek until the 14th century; as such, he had little or no influence on mainstream Orthodox thought until 17th century Ukraine and 18th century Russia, primarily through the influence of western clergy and the establishment of theological schools which relied on Latin models with respect to curricula, text books, etc.



http://www.oca.org/QA.asp?ID=4&SID=3

The language differences is one of the things that led to the split between Eastern and Western. If you can't even talk to each other it's not surprising that you will arrive at different conclusions. Well the language barrier and the sacking of Constantinople.

Thanks for the links. Someone on another thread suggested oca.com. Obviously that didn't work and I didn't think to try using .org. Now I've got more EOC stuff to read.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

We have a fairly new convert in our parish who took the name "Austin", an anglicized version of Augustine.

Mary

 

[authiodionitist]

The language differences is one of the things that led to the split between Eastern and Western. If you can't even talk to each other it's not surprising that you will arrive at different conclusions. Well the language barrier and the sacking of Constantinople.

Thanks for the links. Someone on another thread suggested oca.com. Obviously that didn't work and I didn't think to try using .org. Now I've got more EOC stuff to read.

Language barrier is a funny topic. The Roman Empire's headquarter's was in Byzantium after the fall of the Western Empire to the Germanic tribes, and they used Latin in some of their inscriptions, tax codes, and law. I don't want to throw any more out there at wit, but I stand behind my opinion that there was no significant language barrier at the time.

Also, Hippo is near Carthage, which was really far from the Roman (Byzantine) Empire. He also wrote just before its sacking by the German tribes.

 

[marvmax]

Language barrier is a funny topic. The Roman Empire's headquarter's was in Byzantium after the fall of the Western Empire to the Germanic tribes, and they used Latin in some of their inscriptions, tax codes, and law. I don't want to throw any more out there at wit, but I stand behind my opinion that there was no significant language barrier at the time.

Also, Hippo is near Carthage, which was really far from the Roman (Byzantine) Empire. He also wrote just before its sacking by the German tribes.

I don't think the language barrier was a problem until later after the fall of the Rome, probably much later as learning/literacy in the West started to decline. I don't know for sure but the impression I always get was that as the learning in the West declined those in the East didn't feel a need to follow theological developments in the West.

It has always been my impression that the Patristic Fathers were all conversant in Latin and Greek.

 

[ma2000]

http://www.oca.org/QA.asp?ID=4
http://www.oca.org/QAPrintable.asp?ID=5

Although some of his writings have lead to heresies, it is not Saint Augustine's fault.
Because of the circumstances of his conversion and his intellectual background, Saint Augustine considered the relation with God from a more "psichological" point of view, different from the previous tradition. He gave his work a more personal view. As long as those works which present his views were seen as theologumena (personal theological oppinons), his place among the saints was never questioned.
He is honored as a saint less because of his theological work and more because of his qualities as a shepherd, because of his personal holiness.

 

[buzuxi02]

Basically to sum up what most have said, Augustune is considered a saint in Orthodoxy but his theology in many areas are in error.
In those specific areas where there is false teaching, his writings take a back seat, and the more eminent Fathers fill the void.

 

[SpyridonOCA]

This link gives a thorough explanation of the Orthodox view of St. Augustine's writing/sainthood.

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article8153.asp

This article should be required reading for those who doubt his sainthood.