A question about Paul

[Qvashti]

Why did he choose to know just only Christ and Him crufified? Why not Christ in ascention? Does this mean that he did teach elementary things?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Why did he choose to know just only Christ and Him crufified? Why not Christ in ascention? Does this mean that he did teach elementary things?

Because unity is that important. Starting from the beginning, with a simple doctrine allowed him to get to know everyone instead of "telling them like it is" causing a chasm between hearts.

 

[Qvashti]

Because unity is that important. Starting from the beginning, with a simple doctrine allowed him to get to know everyone instead of "telling them like it is" causing a chasm between hearts.

Can you please answer all 3 questions individualyy with scripture if you can because philosophy doesn't ring a bell with me. Thank you.

 

[drjean]

I would caution a reader of God's Word about stripping out to change the core gospel. Even John 3:16 says nothing specifically about the resurrection. (For God so loved the world that He GAVE..)

One needs to read the whole letter from Paul and then some to realize that he is writing to the church at Corinth and that many were twisting what Paul had said and he is in part defending himself. That church had huge issues with new believers dragging in their former pagan ways which began to taint the core message of the gospel.

 

[com7fy8]

Why did he choose to know just only Christ and Him crufified?

Well, Paul does say,

"For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified." (1 Corinthians 2:2)

Because Jesus is the only way for us to be, in our new inner Person.

"My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you," (Galatians 4:19)

There is no other way to be, so we are pleasing to our Father. Only Jesus is fully pleasing to our Father, and if we are being changed to be like Jesus we are becoming personally pleasing to our Heavenly Father, the way Jesus is.

And our Apostle Paul does command this >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

Jesus was pleasing to our Father, even while He was going through such a hard and painful time. So, God does want us to become like how Jesus was sweetly pleasing even in any hard and painful time.

So, Paul might have been saying to the Corinthians and to us, I want you to be pleasing and loving like Jesus, when things are hard and painful and not only while things are nice and going your way.

Our Father commands this; so He expects us to become sweetly pleasing . . . sweet-smelling to Him . . . like His Son Jesus is, and Jesus in us shares this with us, more and more as we grow in Christ > 2 Corinthians 2:14-15. So, this is about all which God is able to do in us . . . now.

So, Paul is not interested in excuse-making and procrastination and how ones can criticize themselves but not get real correction.

Also, we are told to love like Jesus on the cross has loved us (Ephesians 5:2). Jesus is the only way to be and to relate in love, then. And our Apostle Paul says how to relate >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

I note how it says with "lowliness" and with "gentleness" we are to love. And Jesus says He is "gentle and lowly in heart", in Matthew 11:28-30. So, only in Jesus can we relate in gentle and lowly love.

 

[paul1149]

It's a good question. You can contrast 1Cor 2, which is all about the cross, with Eph 1, which talks about our being seated at the right hand of God and blessed with all blessings in the heavenlies. The difference is in the audience. The Spirit will bring forth the message that needs to be heard at various times. Corinth was a very worldly church in a very major city known throughout the Roman empire for its worldliness. As you read the rest of 1Cor you see all manner of disorder - immorality, division, factions, lawsuits, arguments about mosaic law, drunkenness even at church, and in general, lovelessness. This is what Paul needed to counter, and the only way was to deal with sin and soulishness. This is probably why Paul was trembling when he advanced the Gospel there. He had to break through the deep carnality with the power of the Cross.

Ephesus was a different ballgame. Paul had spent three years there, setting up a full-time school to teach the Gospel. It wasn't that the cross was omitted, for he spends a lot of time telling them they need to put off the old man and put on the new. But the enemies of the church there were more on the spiritual side rather than carnal. The church had undergone persecution from those involved with the city's massive temple trade, and there was a lot of strong demonic activity in the region (acts 19). The church was in need of the radical post-ascension, identity-in-Christ reality, so it is given a glimpse into the heavenly realm, and then told to put on the full armor of God to fight the lesser supernatural powers.

 

[com7fy8]

Why not Christ in ascention?

"For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified." (1 Corinthians 2:2)

Jesus on the cross is the same Jesus ascended and the same Jesus who is on the throne as Lord of all. But, like I say, Jesus on the cross was not a good times only one who loves and tries to God only when things were going good. So, Paul could be emphasizing that the Corinthians and we become like Christ by becoming how He was while He was crucified.

And Jesus obedient and pleasing on the cross was the way which resulted in His ascension and now being at the right hand of our Heavenly Father > Philippians 2:5-11. The one brings the other. You can't separate Jesus on the cross from Jesus on the throne.

No cross, no throne, ones say

Also, we might note how the wording is not "Jesus crucified", but "Jesus Christ and Him crucified." "Jesus Christ" means Jesus before there was this earth (John 17:5), while He was on this earth, Him crucified, and Jesus ascended and now on the throne as Lord of all, plus Jesus our Judge and our Groom. But Paul, I now see, was emphasizing the need to bring in Jesus "crucified", in order to bring out how we need to be pleasing God and all-loving not only in the good times, but all the time, no matter what we go through.

And Paul went through, I would say, some deep and heavy correction in dealing with that "thorn in the flesh" thing > 2 Corinthians 12:7-15.

My personal take is that Paul could at times do things in his ego, somehow, and then was when that thorn "messenger of Satan" could get the better of Paul. But, at first, did Paul simply submit to God, for God to correct Paul? No . . . Paul tried to use prayer to make the thorn thing go away. But Jesus was not going to give Paul a miracle of convenience. Paul needed to learn to do only what God's grace had him doing, so that he could not fail in God's almighty grace. And then was when Paul even could take "pleasure" in hard things, because the grace of God is the action and result of Heaven's own love with Heavenly pleasantness but with almighty power to have Paul succeed in doing whatsoever God had Him doing . . . in love.

And this is how Jesus walked; so Paul is saying be like Jesus so we can succeed in us (1 John 4:17, Philippians 4:6-7) and in whatever we do, against whatever evil brings against us.

 

[com7fy8]

Does this mean that he did teach elementary things?

Yes.

The basic is we need Jesus and how Jesus in us has us becoming and loving.

But ones do get into a lot of theoretical stuff, with lots of paying money for books, and on we go. And it gets quite complicated, and ones might become very expert at each one's way of playing word chess.

But all the revelation of God has His love meaning . . . how Jesus in us has us becoming in our new character, and how Jesus in us makes us pleasing to our Father, and how Jesus in us has us relating daringly and tenderly with any person, whether they are loving with us or not. And this brings us to share with our Jesus family people who are capable of tenderly sharing with us > Ephesians 4:31-32.

The basic, then, is Jesus. And then with this come other basics of our calling as God's children >

Colossians 3:15

Ephesians 4:1-3

And you might note what the disciples were called to > not only to serve Jesus, but "that they might be with Him" > Mark 3:14.

So, our love calling is basic.

 

[Qvashti]

Thank you all for your very informative answers. Gb

 

[ViaCrucis]

Why did he choose to know just only Christ and Him crufified? Why not Christ in ascention? Does this mean that he did teach elementary things?

Obviously St. Paul preached the entire message of Christ and His Gospel, not just that Jesus died--but that the Lord lived, died, was buried, and rose, ascended, is seated at the right hand of the Father from whence He shall come again--all these things are found in St. Paul's writings.

What the Apostle means is the message of the cross, its revolutionary scandal and "foolishness" to the world. It is precisely as he said earlier in the same letter, "For we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the Greek" and that "Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?" and also that Christ is "the power of God and the wisdom of God. For God’s foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and God’s weakness is stronger than human strength."

Paul did not come as a philosopher or rhetorician, he came as a preacher of the cross, proclaiming Jesus who died and who rose, he came as a "fool" for Christ because in the "foolishness" of the Gospel is the power and wisdom of God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[lettuce]

Why did he choose to know just only Christ and Him crufified? Why not Christ in ascention? Does this mean that he did teach elementary things?

Yes, Christ and Him crucified and in Paul's Epistles there is a resurrected Jesus over and over again and that Jesus wasn't just a man, He was raised from the dead and raised so you are justified and He is alive in you. Jesus is the Messiah. His death, your death; God was at your funeral, you are dead to the old man. His resurrection, your resurrection; you are a new creation, being transformed into the image of His Son. People thought Paul was crazy preaching this stuff and some still do. Many churches today preach Jesus still in the tomb and with that, faith is empty and that's why many are sin obsessed and not Savior obsessed.

Christ in you the hope of glory! Colossians 1:27.

Christ is alive in you! Romans 8:10

Justified through faith! Romans 5:1

Crucified with Him!

Romans 6:6, For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin--

Being transformed! 2 Corinthians 3:18

You are a new creation! 2 Corinthians 5:17

1 Corinthians 15:14, And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Why did he choose to know just only Christ and Him crufified? Why not Christ in ascention? Does this mean that he did teach elementary things?

Can you please answer all 3 questions individualyy with scripture if you can because philosophy doesn't ring a bell with me. Thank you.

Oh now I get it. Meditating on scripture doesn't help. First two questions were related to the culture of the disciples at the time after the crucifixion. I recall in Hebrews he spoke about the elementary teachings he taught and in that passage he desired to move on to more advanced things if at all possible. So yes. he taught elementary teachings.

 

[Qvashti]

Oh now I get it. Meditating on scripture doesn't help. First two questions were related to the culture of the disciples at the time after the crucifixion. I recall in Hebrews he spoke about the elementary teachings he taught and in that passage he desired to move on to more advanced things if at all possible. So yes. he taught elementary teachings.

Some things are milk and some are meat is established there. Thanks

Paul said that as a master builder he had laid the foundation that Christians are to build on.

10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise master builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

24 “Anyone who listens to my teaching and follows it is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. 25 Though the rain comes in torrents and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house, it won’t collapse because it is built on bedrock. 26 But anyone who hears my teaching and doesn’t obey it is foolish, like a person who builds a house on sand. 27 When the rains and floods come and the winds beat against that house, it will collapse with a mighty crash.”

 

[Qvashti]

Thanks for all the other replies. Most point to love being the fulfillment of maturity. God's banner over His people is love. Somehow because of that it allows us to walk in forgiveness.

 

[Qvashti]

From a pm about 1 Corinthians 1:18-2:16 details the foolishness of relying on flesh and also Paul's reliance on the Spirit. Thank you @St_Worm2

 

[Wordkeeper]

Why did he choose to know just only Christ and Him crufified?

Different teaching for different people. The church at Corinthians was immature so they were only going to deal with milk food, basic teachings in their studies with Paul.

Why not Christ in ascention?

It seems like those who baptised the believers in Corinth were hasty in laying on of hands. They received the sign gifts and were using them in a power play. So Paul concentrated on the picking up the Cross phase of the Christian life, exposing ourselves to the attack of those we witness to, because it should be God who should deliver us (resurrect us) from those attacks.

Does this mean that he did teach elementary things?

Yes, to the immature. Among the mature, he taught wisdom, meat food, maybe how our treasure will be seeing our loved ones, our crowns, with us in glory, saved because we lay down our lives for them. Literally and figuratively.

 

[com7fy8]

Does this mean that he did teach elementary things?

the foundation that Christians are to build on.

At the very beginning of His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus talks about how to be. Of all the things He could have said, He says we need to be "poor in spirit".

And four of our Beatitudes are about how to be > poor in spirit, merciful, meek, pure in heart < this all means how we in our character need to become in God's love.

And Paul's writings fit with how we need to be, in order to obey what the Holy Spirit means. We need the character of love. This is the character of Jesus who is being formed in us > Galatians 4:19.

Most point to love being the fulfillment of maturity. God's banner over His people is love. Somehow because of that it allows us to walk in forgiveness.

His love effects our nature, making us perfected in His love > 1 John 4:17 < so that "as He is, so are we in this world." This is the basic effect of God's grace in us . . . correcting and transforming us into having this character of God's own love in us.

And so, yes, we need to walk in forgiveness, by walking in God's love >

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

So, we do not only make gestures of forgiving, but we forgive in kind and tender relating. Forgiveness of God brings people to become adopted as His children. Our Father forgave us lovingly, including by adopting us into His family (Romans 8:15). So, if we forgive "even as God", this means we forgive in His lovingly adoptive way.

So, real forgiveness brings family intimacy and sharing . . . if the forgiver and the forgiven both are capable of so benefitting from the forgiveness. But in us we have forgiveness always ready, in God's love, even if someone else is not ready to change and benefit with us.

So, Christian forgiveness is not only a legal thing, of being let off the hook about wrong things. It is like cheerful giving; God loves a cheerful forgiver.

 

[Qvashti]

Different teaching for different people. The church at Corinthians was immature so they were only going to deal with milk food, basic teachings in their studies with Paul.


It seems like those who baptised the believers in Corinth were hasty in laying on of hands. They received the sign gifts and were using them in a power play. So Paul concentrated on the picking up the Cross phase of the Christian life, exposing ourselves to the attack of those we witness to, because it should be God who should deliver us (resurrect us) from those attacks.


Yes, to the immature. Among the mature, he taught wisdom, meat food, maybe how our treasure will be seeing our loved ones, our crowns, with us in glory, saved because we lay down our lives for them. Literally and figuratively.

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men

Agruments over elementary things so that not even the milk was edifying to them. They weren't recieving God's strength because of it. Yes, thank you

 

[Qvashti]

Yes, Christ and Him crucified and in Paul's Epistles there is a resurrected Jesus over and over again and that Jesus wasn't just a man, He was raised from the dead and raised so you are justified and He is alive in you. Jesus is the Messiah. His death, your death; God was at your funeral, you are dead to the old man. His resurrection, your resurrection; you are a new creation, being transformed into the image of His Son. People thought Paul was crazy preaching this stuff and some still do. Many churches today preach Jesus still in the tomb and with that, faith is empty and that's why many are sin obsessed and not Savior obsessed.

Christ in you the hope of glory! Colossians 1:27.

Christ is alive in you! Romans 8:10

Justified through faith! Romans 5:1

Crucified with Him!

Romans 6:6, For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin--

Being transformed! 2 Corinthians 3:18

You are a new creation! 2 Corinthians 5:17

1 Corinthians 15:14, And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.

1 Corinthians 15:14, And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.

Thank you. I think this one verse describes maturity, the meat of the word. Where Paul left off is where we need to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.