A question about Judas

[xNIHILISTx]

Didn't Judas suffer more than Jesus? I mean Jesus was supposed to die for humanity's sin, and him going through the crucifixion was supposed to atone for humanity's sin, which is God's plan. So Judas was needed for the atonement.

But if you think about it, Judas spends an eternity in hell in order to allow the rest of humanity to have redemption. Someone had to betray Jesus in order for there to be salvation right? So Jesus was crucified for a couple of hours, died and came back, and Judas spends the rest of eternity in hell.

Please correct me because I know I'm wrong somehow.

 

[Mr Dave]

This is one of those questions

Because of the necessity for Jesus to die and then rise again, does this mean that God sends Judas to Hell (whatever Hell is)? In all honesty I don't know, but it's up to God to judge him. The Bible doesn't say that he's in Hell, that's just some people's interpretation.
The Gospel of Matthew says that Judas felt remorse for what he had done, so he didn't die a murderer per se but someone who felt remorse for his sin, and presumably asked God for forgiveness in this.
It is the Christian belief that Jesus' death and resurrection is the atonement for all sin, so by Jesus' death, Judas could be forgiven, and isn't necessarily spending eternity in torment.

The thief on the cross recognised who Jesus was and Jesus says that he will be with him in paradise. Judas also recognised who Jesus was and had spent much time with him, so I have no reason to believe that the same couldn't be done for him.

That's how I view it anyway, I'm sure some people will disagree with me but hope that answers some of your queries.

 

[bling]

You missing some concepts. Jesus did not need Judas to betray Him. The Jews were after Jesus, but for them to capture Jesus, He would have to let them. Jesus provided a wonderful opportunity for Judas to see and feel how sinful he had become and turn to accept Jesus’ forgiveness. Jesus/God provides the best opportunities possible for those the will and wont repent. At this time Peter and Judas were both in a sinful state needing forgiveness, but were not seeking forgiveness. Christ helped both Peter and Judas to reach bottom in their sinful lives and Peter repented and Judas did not repent, so Jesus/God does for both those that do and those that do not. Remember Jesus/God are not trying to “stop” us from sinning, but allows us to sin to the point we seek forgiveness or just cannot live with the burden of our sins. The objective is for us to obtain Godly type Love through being forgiven much (…he that is forgiven much will Love much&#8230

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Didn't Judas suffer more than Jesus? I mean Jesus was supposed to die for humanity's sin, and him going through the crucifixion was supposed to atone for humanity's sin, which is God's plan. So Judas was needed for the atonement.

But if you think about it, Judas spends an eternity in hell in order to allow the rest of humanity to have redemption. Someone had to betray Jesus in order for there to be salvation right? So Jesus was crucified for a couple of hours, died and came back, and Judas spends the rest of eternity in hell.

Please correct me because I know I'm wrong somehow.

Jesus knew he was going to die from about age 12. How's that for suffering.Judas is in his grave awaiting the resurrection of judgement. What that will be God alone knows. If condemned to the second death Judas will die, permanently, not live forever in torment (that is reserved for Satan and the demons, as they cannot die anyway). As for the crucifixion I'm sure that the Father suffered much more than did Jesus, as He was responsible for putting his only begotten son to death. So the suffering and death of Christ on the cross was a physical display of the unseen agony of the Father. Horrible, but necessary to God's plan.

 

[Criada]

I don't think that we can know whether or not Judas repented, nor whether or not the 'second death' entails eternal torment, though I don't think that it does.
It is up to God... and since He is both just and merciful, I think we can trust Him to sort it out

 

[fm107]

Judas's sufferings were nothing compared to that of Christ’s.

Judas will suffer in Hell all eternity of his sins, true.

But Jesus had to take that suffering for every man, women and child who ever lived in the space of a few hours.

No one can even begin to imagine the suffering Jesus went through, only God could have suffered what he had to suffer.

In other words, Jesus took an eternity of suffering on that cross for ALL people, whilst Judas is just suffering for his own sins.

Hope this helps.

...................................................................................

By the way Judas did go to Hell:

Acts 1:25
which Judas left to go where he belongs."

He certainly did not belong in Heaven.

Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

Confirms it doesn't it?

...................................................................................

Judas had his own freewill, he chose to portray the Lord.

Jesus was so loving towards him, whilst he knew his entire life that this was the man who would betray him, he was still kind and loving towards him.

Judas had a greater opportunity than most people who would ever live to but his trust in the Lord, but he never.

Yes God did know he would one day portray him, but this is not God's fault, Judas had freewill.

 

[DwarfJuggler]

Jesus knew he was going to die from about age 12. How's that for suffering.Judas is in his grave awaiting the resurrection of judgement. What that will be God alone knows. If condemned to the second death Judas will die, permanently, not live forever in torment (that is reserved for Satan and the demons, as they cannot die anyway). As for the crucifixion I'm sure that the Father suffered much more than did Jesus, as He was responsible for putting his only begotten son to death. So the suffering and death of Christ on the cross was a physical display of the unseen agony of the Father. Horrible, but necessary to God's plan.

I think everyone on planet earth knows their going to die, some probably even before 12. And if he knew when and how he'd die then he had 20+ years (35 wasn't he? *shrug*) to accept his "destiny" and live life with no regrets. And providing he didn't know god would save him from the cross in the Muslim belief system then he'd be overjoyed by this gift that god has granted him. But that's just me.

As for an atheist viewpoint of death in the biblical view... It's not something that should be deemed bad or painful at all when you're going to heaven. So unless Judas went to heaven as well, which i haven't read enough of the book to figure out, then yes he did suffer more. More than I think any theist can possibly imagine, the idea of hell is a cruel and wicked thing and to accept people going to hell is equally barbaric in my mind.

 

[razeontherock]

yes He [Jesus] did suffer more. [than Judas]

You haven't considered the weight of bearing all the sin of the whole world, throughout all time. That's much more relevant than pretending to be able to decide Judas' fate.

 

[DwarfJuggler]

You haven't considered the weight of bearing all the sin of the whole world, throughout all time. That's much more relevant than pretending to be able to decide Judas' fate.

I don't think you fathom the cruelty and unjust punishment of hell. To say it's less painful than sins which cause no actual physical harm. I could murder a man tomorrow and not have the sin rip me apart. I could sleep with my neighbors wife and would actually feel satisfied for being able to get laid. (not that I would do it because I have these things called ethical morals.) So how exactly are sins accredited to great suffering? Furthermore if you try saying they do cause great suffering regardless of this lets go back to sodom. They weren't suffering while living. They just liked to be open sexually. Where was their pain from sinning? They didn't feel pain until god stepped in and "judged" them cruelly. And this is before Jesus took away their sins.

Or are you going to go into time paradoxes. Well Jesus took away all pain from sins for every man even prior to his existence. To which I'd ask how can you claim they even hurt to begin with then.

Now Jesus is apparently getting all these sins. Which we bear from birth apparently (hear theists say this a lot.) And these sins are not acts he does himself. So... in a sense wouldn't it be like me saying you're responsible for the holocaust? You don't feel any shame or guilt to it but it's tied to you now because I said it. You didn't do the act of murder, theft, adultery so why would you feel the guilt. So while Jesus is seeing first hand how much we sin, Judas is in hell getting tortured continuously for eternity. Hm... seems like a no brainer to me. Judas suffered more.

 

[razeontherock]

I don't think you fathom the cruelty of hell.

D00d, I've been there

 

[DwarfJuggler]

If that was suppose to be satirical at my expense I never claimed I have or even know first hand. But through out the bible it isn't described as a place where you're forced to lick a never ending lollipop for the rest of your afterlife.

So just the theists aspect of allowing their god to be so cruel eludes me. More so how they can love him so much and claim he's a being of love, when he's capable of allowing such cruelty *shrug*.

 

[razeontherock]

You're guessing about what you don't know. Some of us speak from what we do know.

 

[xNIHILISTx]

You're guessing about what you don't know. Some of us speak from what we do know.

You know exactly what hell is like??

Are you the...devil?

 

[razeontherock]

I've seen it, and been there briefly. No, that doesn't mean I know exactly what it's like, just one small part. It may all be like that, or there may be many different aspects.

 

[heron]

If you parallel Jesus' crucifixion with the sacrifice of a lamb, it wasn't about an amount of suffering. It was about giving up life for the purpose of atonement.

Both Kosher and Halal meat have high standards, that include quick death. If an animal suffers, the muscles tense and toxins build up in the blood stream. Sorry to get graphic. But in a kosher death, response only lasts a few seconds.

People teach that Jesus suffered and died for us, so I don't want to minimize that. But the intended symbolism, from what we understand, is more about the owner's sacrifice of the lamb that He loved and raised.

Life is given so that others may have life. Maybe someone else can add more to this.

There are many legal terms used when talking about redemption, atonement, and sacrifice. It is like acquittal, without doing the jail time. Someone else posting bail. Someone else taking on the sentence for us.

 

[heron]

It is the Christian belief that Jesus' death and resurrection is the atonement for all sin, so by Jesus' death, Judas could be forgiven, and isn't necessarily spending eternity in torment.

This is a great example of how choice determines the outcome. Judas had Jesus' favor even when Jesus knew what Judas was up to. Judas made the choice to betray, the choice to give in to despair.

There are a lot of people who suffered more than Jesus did. An aunt with rheumatoid arthritis. A child locked up in a cage in someone's basement. Street children, legless victims of militant groups, chronically ill, trafficked women, wounded soldiers.

If you tried to picture the most injured person, and have Jesus one-up them, he would have probably been nonfunctional in His ministry. Sitting on the ground wailing.

But that brings us to look at what it is He wanted to accomplish. He empowered people during their lives. He healed and restored. He set free from oppression.

 

[razeontherock]

Yes, and when He died, His Father had to give all that up. He could have had Jesus still with us today, in earthly physical form, fully human. In that case the church would no doubt be incredibly stronger, w/ a much more 'saintly' history. As the "owner of the sacrificial lamb," G-d the Father certainly made a HUGE sacrifice w/ Christ's death.

 

[december1990]

Well... both suffered but you have to see Jesus was Righteous and Judas was not. Judas betrayed Jesus. He was a thief, he conspired against Jesus and he ended up betraying Jesus with a kiss. But regardless Jesus died because He loved us and still...

Human minds can think things like "Oh, I bet crucifixtion wasn't painful." Well.. that's because you've never been hung on a cross with nails in your wrists or through your feet... it's pretty painful and not only that but Jesus was whipped...

I mean I'd like to see any of us go through that trial I bet we'd be crying through the whole thing.. Even a person with a stone cold heart would be literally afraid of crucifixtion so.. Jesus is pretty much strong emotionally, physically and spiritually to even go through any of that kind of torture or pain

And not to mention Jesus was further mocked.. Instead of people feeling sorry for him.. Soldiers got pride and joy just seeing Jesus suffer.. they liked to spit in his face, slap and mock him.. They even clothed Him in a beautiful purple robe and then ripped it off.. not only that but as Jesus hung on the Cross He was basically stripped off His clothes and soldiers were bargaining for it and casting lots for His clothes...

I mean thats not fair treatment... but yeah Jesus wasnt like "ITS NOT FAIR" He said "I love my People Im gonna die for them" so I think Jesus is pretty Mighty Strong to do that for us

Jesus aint a whimp

 

[singpeace]

News Flash! Judas Repented!

Matthew 27:3-4 (King James Version)
3. Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4. Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.


Matthew 27:3-4 (New Living Translation)
3. When Judas, who had betrayed him, realized that Jesus had been condemned to die, he was filled with remorse. So he took the thirty pieces of silver back to the leading priests and the elders.
4. “I have sinned,” he declared, “for I have betrayed an innocent man.”