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A Question about Jesus Christ

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Achilles6129

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He made wine for a wedding....also, it's not his fault if folks choose to get intoxicated from it or not. The water into wine is symbolic also, just like the bitter water into sweet is symbolic in Ex. 15:22-25. It's symbolic of the before condition of an unsaved person and the condition after they are saved.
 
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davidoffinland

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There are studies out there that the wine in the bible was more like our grape juice of today. One good study was made by a Seventh Day Adventist with a Italian last name who studied this subject. If I remember right, the alcohol percentage content was very low. It was the deep red, long aging wine that produced the higher alcohol content. This wine was usually saved till the end as the cheaper wine was drunk at first..this wine drunk was like grape juice.

The content of the verses given in I Corinth 6:8-10 has to do with the wicked, the sexually immoral, idolators, adulterers, male prostitutes, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers. It really has to do with righteous or unrighteous living not just one sin.

Shalom, davidoffinland.
 
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jgonz

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The 1 Cor. passage is talking about drunkards... People who Habitually drink to intoxication.

Jesus can not be compared to satan, as satan was/is a fallen angel and Jesus is G-d. G-d does not tempt us, and He is not a man that he would lie.

There are many other Scriptures (Paul's verse springs to mind "take a little wine with dinner for your stomach") that make it clear that "drinking" is not wrong~ it's the habitual drinking associated with alcoholism that's referenced here.
 
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Phatbowser

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Remember this, the wine that Christ created was pure, there was no fermentation of any kind. The wine He speaks of, is the wine that has been brought to the level of a toxicant, the sin of man allowing fermentation to set in. Wine in Jesus' day, that was not allowed to ferment, was no different than our modern day grape juice. Grape juice in fact is what wine is supposed to be, PURE.
 
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WAB

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Phatbowser said:
Remember this, the wine that Christ created was pure, there was no fermentation of any kind. The wine He speaks of, is the wine that has been brought to the level of a toxicant, the sin of man allowing fermentation to set in. Wine in Jesus' day, that was not allowed to ferment, was no different than our modern day grape juice. Grape juice in fact is what wine is supposed to be, PURE.

DEFINITIONS: In Hebrew, there are at least eight different words that are translated into the English word "wine".
The most common is the word "ya'yin" which means: "to effervesce; wine as fermented; by implication intoxication." (from Strong's dictionary of Hebrew Words).

All
of the Hebrew words translated into the English word "wine" mean either specifically an intoxicant, such as: "shekar" (shay-kawr'), or imply intoxication.
The word "ya'yin" is used in Genesis 9:20, where (of Noah) it is said: "And he drank wine, and was drunken..."

The same word is used in Gen.19:32-35 where the daughters of Lot enticed him to drink wine and then committed incest with him. Obviously, Lot was in a drunken stupor considering the last part of verse 33 which says: "...and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose." (referring to Lot's firstborn).

In Leviticus 10:9, God forbids Aaron to "...drink wine or strong drink.. ." when Aaron was to go into the tabernacle. The obvious implication being that either one is a mind-altering substance, and Aaron was to be clear-headed.

Unger's Bible Dictionary has the following: "Wine. 1. Bible Terms. The product of the wine press was described in Hebrew by a variety of terms, indicative either of the quality or the use of the liquid. (1) Heb. ya'yin (effervescing) is rendered invariably in the A.V. "wine," excepting Judges 13:14, "vine"; Canticles 2:4, "banqueting." This term corresponds to the Gr. oinos, and our wine. In most of the passages in the Bible where yayin is used (eighty-three out of one hundred and thirty eight), it certainly means fermented grape juice, and in the remainder it may fairly be presumed to do so. In four only (Isa. 16:10; Jer.40:10-12; Lam. 2:12) is it really doubtful. "In no passage can it be positively shown to have any other meaning. The intoxicating character of yayin in general is plain from Scripture. To it are attributed the "darkly flashing eye" (Gen. 49:12; A.V. "red"), the unbridled tongue (Prov. 20:1; Isa. 28:7), the excitement of the spirit (Prov. 31:6; Isa. 5:11; Zech. 9:15; 10:7), the enchained affections of its votaries (Hos.4:11), the perverted judgement (Prov.31:5; Isa.28:7), the indecent exposure (Hab.2:15,16), and the sickness resulting from the heat (hemah, A.V. "bottles") of wine (Hos. 7:5)."

In Greek, there are four words (three of which are from the same root) translated into the English word "wine."
1. "gleu'kos: sweet wine; fresh, but used of the more saccharine (and therefore highly inebriating) fermented wine." (from Strong's) This is the word used in Acts 2:13, where some of those who heard the disciples speak in languages they had received from the Holy Spirit declared that the disciples were "...full of new wine..." but Peter told them: "...these are not drunken as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day."
Obviously Peter, as well as those who had heard, associated "new wine" with inebriation.

2. "oi'nos: a primitive word; or perhaps of Hebrew origin [yayin] ; wine." (again, from Strong's) This is the most common Greek word translated into the English "wine" and is used by our Lord in the Gospels. In the analogy of putting "new wine" into old wineskins, if it were mere grapejuice.... no problem. But as the definition of these words "new wine" also utilizes the word gleu'kos with it's attendant meaning, and since this wine is still in the process of fermentation (effervescing), no wonder the wineskins (KJV "bottles") could not contain it.

3. "oinophlugi'a : an overflow (or surplus) of wine, i.e. vinolency (drunkeness): excess of wine." (Strong's). This word is used in 1 Peter 4:3 as "... excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries."

4. "par'oinos: staying near wine; tippling; given to wine." (Strong's). This word is used in the description/qualifications of the man who aspires to the "...office of a bishop..." (or overseer), in 1 Timothy 3:3: "Not given to wine..." and in vs. 8: "Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine..." (The NASB has: "not addicted to wine..." in vs.3, and.... "not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine..." in verse 8).

Kenneth Wuest, in his Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, has this to say regarding Ephesians 5:18... "'Be drunk' is methusko, 'to get drunk, become intoxicated.'

Wycliffe translates, "be filled."

Vincent says: ‘A curious use of the word occurs in Homer, where he is describing the stretching of a bull's hide, which in order to make it more elastic is soaked (methusko) with fat.’ The word, therefore, refers to the condition of a person in which he is soaked with wine."

See also Luke 7:33,34, where the English word winebibber is used, the Greek word for which is oinopot'es, the definition of which is: "a tippler" (again taken from Strong's).

Webster's defines "tippler" as "One who habitually indulges in the excessive use of spiritous liquors; a drunkard; a sot. It however signifies often a person who habitually drinks strong liquors, without absolute drunkenness."

Webster further defines.... "Bibber: n. A tippler, a man given to drinking; chiefly used in composition, as winebibber."

None of the above would make any sense whatsoever if we substitute "grapejuice" (as is the case with many KJV Only folks), for what the Word of God so plainly says by using the word "wine".
W.A.B.​
 
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WAB

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WAB said:
DEFINITIONS: In Hebrew, there are at least eight different words that are translated into the English word "wine".
The most common is the word "ya'yin" which means: "to effervesce; wine as fermented; by implication intoxication." (from Strong's dictionary of Hebrew Words).

All
of the Hebrew words translated into the English word "wine" mean either specifically an intoxicant, such as: "shekar" (shay-kawr'), or imply intoxication.
The word "ya'yin" is used in Genesis 9:20, where (of Noah) it is said: "And he drank wine, and was drunken..."

The same word is used in Gen.19:32-35 where the daughters of Lot enticed him to drink wine and then committed incest with him. Obviously, Lot was in a drunken stupor considering the last part of verse 33 which says: "...and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose." (referring to Lot's firstborn).

In Leviticus 10:9, God forbids Aaron to "...drink wine or strong drink.. ." when Aaron was to go into the tabernacle. The obvious implication being that either one is a mind-altering substance, and Aaron was to be clear-headed.

Unger's Bible Dictionary has the following: "Wine. 1. Bible Terms. The product of the wine press was described in Hebrew by a variety of terms, indicative either of the quality or the use of the liquid. (1) Heb. ya'yin (effervescing) is rendered invariably in the A.V. "wine," excepting Judges 13:14, "vine"; Canticles 2:4, "banqueting." This term corresponds to the Gr. oinos, and our wine. In most of the passages in the Bible where yayin is used (eighty-three out of one hundred and thirty eight), it certainly means fermented grape juice, and in the remainder it may fairly be presumed to do so. In four only (Isa. 16:10; Jer.40:10-12; Lam. 2:12) is it really doubtful. "In no passage can it be positively shown to have any other meaning. The intoxicating character of yayin in general is plain from Scripture. To it are attributed the "darkly flashing eye" (Gen. 49:12; A.V. "red"), the unbridled tongue (Prov. 20:1; Isa. 28:7), the excitement of the spirit (Prov. 31:6; Isa. 5:11; Zech. 9:15; 10:7), the enchained affections of its votaries (Hos.4:11), the perverted judgement (Prov.31:5; Isa.28:7), the indecent exposure (Hab.2:15,16), and the sickness resulting from the heat (hemah, A.V. "bottles") of wine (Hos. 7:5)."

In Greek, there are four words (three of which are from the same root) translated into the English word "wine."
1. "gleu'kos: sweet wine; fresh, but used of the more saccharine (and therefore highly inebriating) fermented wine." (from Strong's) This is the word used in Acts 2:13, where some of those who heard the disciples speak in languages they had received from the Holy Spirit declared that the disciples were "...full of new wine..." but Peter told them: "...these are not drunken as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day."
Obviously Peter, as well as those who had heard, associated "new wine" with inebriation.

2. "oi'nos: a primitive word; or perhaps of Hebrew origin [yayin] ; wine." (again, from Strong's) This is the most common Greek word translated into the English "wine" and is used by our Lord in the Gospels. In the analogy of putting "new wine" into old wineskins, if it were mere grapejuice.... no problem. But as the definition of these words "new wine" also utilizes the word gleu'kos with it's attendant meaning, and since this wine is still in the process of fermentation (effervescing), no wonder the wineskins (KJV "bottles") could not contain it.

3. "oinophlugi'a : an overflow (or surplus) of wine, i.e. vinolency (drunkeness): excess of wine." (Strong's). This word is used in 1 Peter 4:3 as "... excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries."

4. "par'oinos: staying near wine; tippling; given to wine." (Strong's). This word is used in the description/qualifications of the man who aspires to the "...office of a bishop..." (or overseer), in 1 Timothy 3:3: "Not given to wine..." and in vs. 8: "Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine..." (The NASB has: "not addicted to wine..." in vs.3, and.... "not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine..." in verse 8).

Kenneth Wuest, in his Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, has this to say regarding Ephesians 5:18... "'Be drunk' is methusko, 'to get drunk, become intoxicated.'

Wycliffe translates, "be filled."

Vincent says: ‘A curious use of the word occurs in Homer, where he is describing the stretching of a bull's hide, which in order to make it more elastic is soaked (methusko) with fat.’ The word, therefore, refers to the condition of a person in which he is soaked with wine."

See also Luke 7:33,34, where the English word winebibber is used, the Greek word for which is oinopot'es, the definition of which is: "a tippler" (again taken from Strong's).

Webster's defines "tippler" as "One who habitually indulges in the excessive use of spiritous liquors; a drunkard; a sot. It however signifies often a person who habitually drinks strong liquors, without absolute drunkenness."

Webster further defines.... "Bibber: n. A tippler, a man given to drinking; chiefly used in composition, as winebibber."

None of the above would make any sense whatsoever if we substitute "grapejuice" (as is the case with many KJV Only folks), for what the Word of God so plainly says by using the word "wine".
W.A.B.​
I hasten to say that nowhere in Scripture are Believers encouraged to drink wine to excess. Quite the contrary.
 
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WAB

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jgonz said:
I completely agree WAB~ wine is Wine, and it's fermented. But we are to be mature enough to not drink to intoxication. :)

In addition, here is a Scripture that I believe is really important. "It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak." (Romans 14:21). (Won't hurt to include verse 20).

We should be willing and able to abstain from wholly legitimate occupations for our brother's/sister's sake.

See also 1Cor.8:13 for support of the concept.

We know of a group of genuine Christians who pretty much keep to themselves while drinking wine, while at the same time castigating those who might take offense. But some believers may have been alcoholics prior to coming to Christ, or perhaps have family members with a drinking problem. Should we offend them by our behaviour? I think not.

Shalom.... WAB
 
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notanordinarygirl

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I don't think there is anything wrong with a little bit of alcohol. Jesus didn't say, "Here's wine! Drink a LOT and get drunk! [insert evil laughter here]", just helped out at a party. When people gave parties back then they were usually accompanied by wine. That doesn't mean they got drunk.

You can't get intoxicated with only a little bit of alcohol (especially when you're eating, and I bet they were eating at that party). It takes more than just a couple of cups of wine to get drunk. Jesus and the apostles drank wine, but that doesn't mean they got drunk. ;)
 
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hithesh

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From Finland.

There are studies out there that the wine in the bible was more like our grape juice of today. One good study was made by a Seventh Day Adventist with a Italian last name who studied this subject. If I remember right, the alcohol percentage content was very low. It was the deep red, long aging wine that produced the higher alcohol content. This wine was usually saved till the end as the cheaper wine was drunk at first..this wine drunk was like grape juice.


lol, grape juice?? come on. Jesus wasn't called a drunkard for drinking grape juice.

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they said, 'He is possessed by a demon.'
The Son of Man came eating and drinking and they said, 'Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' "

Christ was an easy going guy-god, or god-guy, who boozed it every once in a while. If Jesus was around now, i bet you, he wouldn't be hanging around church people all day, he'd be at a pub, taking jello-shots, rememinding people to buckle up, and telling a parable about the good samiratan, who drove a drunk jew home.

"Jesus was an asectic frat god-boy.", why deny him the glory in this?
 
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5stringJeff

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I don't think so, because you can call anything symbolic if it will mold the story in a way you would prefer it to be. I think Jesus is just like the snake who tempted Eve, because the people knew not to drink whine, and Jesus knew it would forbid entry into heaven, but he gave it to them anyway. Was that not wrong?
You are incorrect in stating that Jesus knew it was a sin to drink wine. It is not a sin to drink wine; even Jesus drank it (see post #15, above). It was not a sin for Jesus to create wine at the wedding any more than it was an evil act for God to create alcohol in the first place.
 
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