A question about dinosaurs

with your comments I'm having problem here;

1. Dinos are never mentioned in the bible are they?. Have you seen one running around your area? if not, believing on it go against Gods word "multifly after their own kind". Wait there is one, the old serpent that became dragon, he evolves does he? I don't think its a dino.
2. Is our God not powerful? why he needs millions of years to create if He is powerful enough to create things with His word in an instant? Was Adam a liquid thing that became dust before he was formed as a MATURED man in ONE (a 24hrs) day? that inculdes the other creatures, are they created hatching eggs or matured animals?
this is the famous filipino question; which comes first, chiken or egg? hehe
3. Did God created another planet in Genesis or did He created Earth that has 24hrs a day? Can we may ask the writer of Genesis, if he knows the lenght of time in Mars, venus or saturn? or does he only knows our Earthly 24hr day?

Konyat said:

with your comments I'm having problem here;

1. Dinos are never mentioned in the bible are they?. Have you seen one running around your area? if not, believing on it go against Gods word "multifly after their own kind". Wait there is one, the old serpent that became dragon, he evolves does he? I don't think its a dino.

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By your reasoning, here is a small and incomplete list of things that can't exist because they

1) are not mentioned in the Bible
2) and thus go against God's word:

Atoms, Norway, Mars, Alpha Centauri Proxima, North America, computers, chocolate milk, cocoa powder, gravity, the United Nations, applesauce, pulled pork sandwiches, Baseball, Abraham Lincoln, the Protestant Reformation and finally the Bible.

2. Is our God not powerful? why he needs millions of years to create if He is powerful enough to create things with His word in an instant? Was Adam a liquid thing that became dust before he was formed as a MATURED man in ONE (a 24hrs) day? that inculdes the other creatures, are they created hatching eggs or matured animals?
this is the famous filipino question; which comes first, chiken or egg? hehe

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The same question can be asked, is God not powerful enough to create instantaneously, does He need six whole days to do it? Of course the answer is that God's power isn't put into jeopardy, it doesn't matter whether God created all things in a single moment, over the course of a seven day week, or over the course of billions of years.

3. Did God created another planet in Genesis or did He created Earth that has 24hrs a day? Can we may ask the writer of Genesis, if he knows the lenght of time in Mars, venus or saturn? or does he only knows our Earthly 24hr day?

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Ah, so you do seem to disbelieve in Mars. Unless I'm misunderstanding you.

So do you also agree that the existence of Norway, the lightbulb, and the Pacific Ocean are at the very least suspect?

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

By your reasoning, here is a small and incomplete list of things that can't exist because they

1) are not mentioned in the Bible
2) and thus go against God's word:

Atoms, Norway, Mars, Alpha Centauri Proxima, North America, computers, chocolate milk, cocoa powder, gravity, the United Nations, applesauce, pulled pork sandwiches, Baseball, Abraham Lincoln, the Protestant Reformation and finally the Bible.



The same question can be asked, is God not powerful enough to create instantaneously, does He need six whole days to do it? Of course the answer is that God's power isn't put into jeopardy, it doesn't matter whether God created all things in a single moment, over the course of a seven day week, or over the course of billions of years.



Ah, so you do seem to disbelieve in Mars. Unless I'm misunderstanding you.

So do you also agree that the existence of Norway, the lightbulb, and the Pacific Ocean are at the very least suspect?

-CryptoLutheran

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The question is, what kind of "day" the writer of Genesis has in his mind when he wrote the accounts of creation. If ever he had information in his time about the days in the other planets or even in heaven.


Are dinos multiplying today? I saw dogs are still multiplying. Oh maybe they stop multiplying because they disobeyed God's command to multiply after their kind.

Konyat said:

The question is, what kind of "day" the writer of Genesis has in his mind when he wrote the accounts of creation. If ever he had information in his time about the days in the other planets or even in heaven.

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I have no idea what a solar day on another planet has to do with anything.

There are theological reasons why Genesis 1 was written the way it was. The most important stuff in Genesis 1 isn't that in the course of a seven day week God produced everything and then literally rested; but rather to place creation into an orderly schema while simultaneously presenting a Temple narrative and a theological origin for the sanctity of the Sabbath.

Are dinos multiplying today? I saw dogs are still multiplying. Oh maybe they stop multiplying because they disobeyed God's command to multiply after their kind.

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Yes, dinosaurs actually are multiplying today. You and I usually call them birds. Non-avian dinosaurs died out about 65 million years ago.

Extinction puts a damper on reproduction, just ask these guys:





-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

I have no idea what a solar day on another planet has to do with anything.

There are theological reasons why Genesis 1 was written the way it was. The most important stuff in Genesis 1 isn't that in the course of a seven day week God produced everything and then literally rested; but rather to place creation into an orderly schema while simultaneously presenting a Temple narrative and a theological origin for the sanctity of the Sabbath.



Yes, dinosaurs actually are multiplying today. You and I usually call them birds. Non-avian dinosaurs died out about 65 million years ago.

Extinction puts a damper on reproduction, just ask these guys:

-CryptoLutheran

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Thanks for the explanation I really appreciate it, but to me the creation in Gen 1 is still a 6 days (24hr/day) event as it clearly stated in the bible.

Gen1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

The story of creation in Gen 1 is not only talking about how things are created, it also talks about how was things on the very FIRST DAY of this planet Earth.
Is it correct to explain that the first day of Earth was not a 24 hours but millions of years?

"And there was evening and there was morning, one day"- it was the first 24 hours day not first million years.

I can't get clear answer from the pictures, I thought dinos are huge? the creatures in the pictures are in normal sizes.

Konyat said:

Thanks for the explanation I really appreciate it, but to me the creation in Gen 1 is still a 6 days (24hr/day) event as it clearly stated in the bible.

Gen1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

The story of creation in Gen 1 is not only talking about how things are created, it also talks about how was things on the very FIRST DAY of this planet Earth.
Is it correct to explain that the first day of Earth was not a 24 hours but millions of years?

"And there was evening and there was morning, one day"- it was the first 24 hours day not first million years.

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I don't think the days in Genesis are millions of years. I just don't think the text is to be taken literally or historically. It is theological in nature.

I can't get clear answer from the pictures, I thought dinos are huge? the creatures in the pictures are in normal sizes.

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Not all non-avian dinosaurs were huge. Some were no bigger than a cat.

The animals I showed you weren't dinosaurs, but rather I put up pictures of three different animals which have gone extinct. The dodo, the thylacine and the aurochs. The dodo and the aurochs went extinct about 400 years ago, the thylacine went extinct about 80 years ago.

These animals aren't "multiplying after their own kind" any longer. They can't. They no longer exist. Just like billions of other organisms such as, you guessed it, the dinosaurs.

-CryptoLutheran

I read a book written by someone who compiled all these news reports from the middle ages describing dinosaurs that were being killed off by people. I understand that there were a lot of Loch Ness type creatures up there near Scotland during the Middle Ages. Seems that the dinosaurs died off slowly and not millions of years ago like your teachers would like you to believe.

I believe, after reading in Genesis, the conditions of the Earth were slightly different prior to the flood. We are told that man lived 800-900 years. It is interesting to note that after the flood mans lifespan seems to dip from that to about a hundred years or so. If that be the case it would not be a stretch to think that animals may have also lived longer than they currently do. So since most "dinosaurs" are considered reptiles maybe we can find an answer by looking into our current ones. Let's take a crocodile for example. They live to be about a hundred years old. At the end of its life it can be as big as 20 feet long. Since reptiles grow over the course of their entire lifespan what if it were to live for say just 400 years. Multiplying for its new age we would be looking at an animal that is 80 feet long, 8-10 feet high and about 20 feet wide....sounds like a dinosaur to me. Now, as I stated before, conditions were different prior to the flood. The earth had more of a greenhouse effect. Not to debate those that believe in millions of years age of the earth. But, if conditions are different then that means that the accuracy of any type of scientific dating method could be off. Again, just throwing that out there. I do not profess to have a scientific background or any schooling in such methods. Just my faith in God and what He has laid out for us in His word.
I also would like to point out that the Bible says that there came every "kind" of animal. Most people seem to understand that as species such as two tigers, two lions, two rhinos, etc. But what if "kind" mean genus. Like Feline, Pachyderm, etc. Then when it says that there were two pairs of felines (4 animals) it could mean 1 lion, 1 tiger, 1 panther, 1 bobcat. After the flood they then mate bringing forth those four species and various other species. I remember once listening to a speaker talk about rock pigeons. If 4 were taken on the ark and then mated after the flood. Something in their genes allows them to produce a multitude of various pigeon species. The speaker claimed that within a hundred breedings there could be a hundred different species when all was said and done. Could solve how all the different species of animals could have fit on the ark.

Anyways just a couple more thoughts to throw into the mix.

E.T.Elijah said:

I also would like to point out that the Bible says that there came every "kind" of animal. Most people seem to understand that as species such as two tigers, two lions, two rhinos, etc. But what if "kind" mean genus. Like Feline, Pachyderm, etc. Then when it says that there were two pairs of felines (4 animals) it could mean 1 lion, 1 tiger, 1 panther, 1 bobcat. After the flood they then mate bringing forth those four species and various other species. I remember once listening to a speaker talk about rock pigeons. If 4 were taken on the ark and then mated after the flood. Something in their genes allows them to produce a multitude of various pigeon species. The speaker claimed that within a hundred breedings there could be a hundred different species when all was said and done. Could solve how all the different species of animals could have fit on the ark.

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That's very interesting. Of course, who knows if that's how it happened. We'll probably have to wait to ask God in heaven. But I do think people too often project their own limited understanding onto the Bible and then conclude the story is impossible.

If we're going to believe in an infinite God, why is it so hard to think He would find a way to do these things?

Thanks for the info.

Resha Caner said:

That's very interesting. Of course, who knows if that's how it happened. We'll probably have to wait to ask God in heaven. But I do think people too often project their own limited understanding onto the Bible and then conclude the story is impossible.

If we're going to believe in an infinite God, why is it so hard to think He would find a way to do these things?

Thanks for the info.

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Because everything about the story and everything about screams "he didn't".
The story looks parabolic (or rather like two different parabolic accounts interwoven) and every scrap of evidence points towards no such literal event having happened.

The extreme number of things one has to invent God magically doing before, during and after that are not hinted at in the story, the larger than life nature of it, the dark humor, the theology it speaks that is independent of it being literal history,... all point to it being parabolic. L

E.T.Elijah said:

I believe, after reading in Genesis, the conditions of the Earth were slightly different prior to the flood.

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having to speculate stuff like that is not a good sign for a hypothesis.

We are told that man lived 800-900 years. It is interesting to note that after the flood mans lifespan seems to dip from that to about a hundred years or so.

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a good sign that we are moving from the realm of myth, legend and parable to something more like history at around that point.

If that be the case it would not be a stretch to think that animals may have also lived longer than they currently do. So since most "dinosaurs" are considered reptiles maybe we can find an answer by looking into our current ones. Let's take a crocodile for example. They live to be about a hundred years old. At the end of its life it can be as big as 20 feet long. Since reptiles grow over the course of their entire lifespan what if it were to live for say just 400 years. Multiplying for its new age we would be looking at an animal that is 80 feet long, 8-10 feet high and about 20 feet wide....sounds like a dinosaur to me.

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Dinosaurs are not necessarily large. Crocodiles are not dinosaurs. The budgies on the lines outside my house are dinosaurs.

Now, as I stated before, conditions were different prior to the flood. The earth had more of a greenhouse effect. Not to debate those that believe in millions of years age of the earth. But, if conditions are different then that means that the accuracy of any type of scientific dating method could be off.

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different sorts of dating would be off in different ways if at all. Because we have lots of different ways of dating we can check and calibrate them against each other.

Again, just throwing that out there. I do not profess to have a scientific background or any schooling in such methods.

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exactly.

Just my faith in God and what He has laid out for us in His word.
I also would like to point out that the Bible says that there came every "kind" of animal. Most people seem to understand that as species such as two tigers, two lions, two rhinos, etc. But what if "kind" mean genus.

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nobody has come up with a definition of "kind" that makes the Genesis stories work literally. If one read the texts at face value instead of trying to make them literally true then kind is clearly roughly species. Any other reading needs justifying by more than a "what if" that doesn't work.

Like Feline, Pachyderm, etc. Then when it says that there were two pairs of felines (4 animals) it could mean 1 lion, 1 tiger, 1 panther, 1 bobcat.

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then in most cases they could not/would not breed or would produce sterile offspring.


And the poor koalas still have to cross thousands of kilometers of land and one ocean before they get to their food.

Well, I believe, as I eluded to on another thread, that I hold unpopular believes dealing with creation. Why could God not have created the world with the fossil record in tact. Scripture tells us how God has provided evidence for the big lie we want to believe. I think that big illusion is science in historical earth or geology. God transcends time and space and I suppose could have created time and space after he created Adam and Eve. It's kind of bazaar, but when you begin to try to put the pieces together, it works for me and holds to my faith in that I believe in Adam and Eve as our first parents created by God.

Jack Bauer said:

Well, I believe, as I eluded to on another thread, that I hold unpopular believes dealing with creation. Why could God not have created the world with the fossil record in tact.

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he could have. He could have created the world last thursday will an illusory past.

Scripture tells us how God has provided evidence for the big lie we want to believe.

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I'll go with Paul. God speaks the truth through his creation, not lies.

ebia said:

Because everything about the story and everything about screams "he didn't".
The story looks parabolic (or rather like two different parabolic accounts interwoven) and every scrap of evidence points towards no such literal event having happened.

The extreme number of things one has to invent God magically doing before, during and after that are not hinted at in the story, the larger than life nature of it, the dark humor, the theology it speaks that is independent of it being literal history,... all point to it being parabolic. L

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This is a good example of hyperbole but not much else.

I mean, God forbid we should believe God has ever done anything "larger than life."

So, answer me 2 questions:
1) Do you believe any miracle mentioned in the Bible actually occurred?
2) Do you believe any person mentioned in the Bible actually lived?

Resha Caner said:

This is a good example of hyperbole but not much else.

I mean, God forbid we should believe God has ever done anything "larger than life."

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I didn't say God hadn't done anything larger than life.

So, answer me 2 questions:
1) Do you believe any miracle mentioned in the Bible actually occurred?
2) Do you believe any person mentioned in the Bible actually lived?

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yes and yes

ebia said:

yes and yes

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Could you give me an example of each?