A Question About Death

rjc34 · Jun 9, 2011

Martingale said:
the process of death, whether its fast or takes months, is ugly and ultimately robs the dying of all personal dignity.

If one were suffering from terminal cancer, and in a state of intense pain at all times, would the most dignified way to go be to end your own life quickly and painlessly, on your own time?

hollyda · Jun 9, 2011

The thing I fear is the knowledge that forever is a long time, longer than anyone here can grasp. Granted, the idea of living forever frightens me almost as much -- but not as much as the thought of a vast nothingness.

The process of dying scares me, too; I watched my grandmother wither away from cancer when I was little, and since she was the first person close to me to die, it really hit me hard. I fear the possibility of that -- of becoming a prisoner inside your body and watching as those you love try to keep on a brave face. I also fear losing people I love dearest before I go; I don't handle loss well.

When I do muse about death, I do wish I could believe in some afterlife to abate the fear. As it is, I am ultimately left with the understanding of how precious this life is, and how important it is to live it good, honest, and to the best of my ability.

Cute Tink · Jun 9, 2011

vermin06 said:
Interesting! It's not weird, but it is inconsistent. I think what's happening is you're not connecting end of life with end of consciousness. Indeed, according to Dr. Elizabeth Kubler Ross, the subconscious mind can't perceive it's own natural death. However, why you consciously seem to feel that way is a mystery to me.

I can't explain it, even to myself, rationally. Instead, I deal with it by planning on being cremated. For some other, undefinable reason, I don't fear the same loneliness anticipating becoming a pile of ashes and being dispersed somewhere.

Perhaps I will look into some writings about it some day.

bricklayer · Jun 9, 2011

vermin06 said:
So, I have a question concerning personal views on death and dying. I'm an atheist, so I'm assuming my views on it will be different than the majority here

What I want to know is, what are some of your personal fears involving death? Mine are the amount of pain and suffering I would have to endure physically before hand, I fear it coming suddenly, and I worry for those I'll leave behind (possible financial burdens and the like).

What do you fear about death?

I sat blank until the screen went black. I couldn't think of a thing.
Not until now did I even give it any thought at all, and now that I have I can say that I don't fear a thing about death.
That in life that gives me pause would take another thread.

vermin06 · Jun 9, 2011

Cute Tink said:
I can't explain it, even to myself, rationally. Instead, I deal with it by planning on being cremated. For some other, undefinable reason, I don't fear the same loneliness anticipating becoming a pile of ashes and being dispersed somewhere.

Perhaps I will look into some writings about it some day.

Hmm, maybe, when you're cremated, you view the end of your physical being that you associate as you. Whereas when you're buried, your intact body (IE you) are still existent. I'm just guessing, but does that feel like it could be right?

vermin06 · Jun 9, 2011

bricklayer said:
I sat blank until the screen went black. I couldn't think of a thing.
Not until now did I even give it any thought at all, and now that I have I can say that I don't fear a thing about death.
That in life that gives me pause would take another thread.

What do you think gives you that fearlessness towards death?

bricklayer · Jun 9, 2011

vermin06 said:
What do you think gives you that fearlessness towards death?

I have found favor with God.

ThePilgrim101 · Jun 9, 2011

Hey, do you remember that time before you were born?

Neither do I.

It's the same thing. There's nothing to fear with after being dead. It's a scary though - to consider non-existence - but that's okay because you have a life to live - now - a mark to leave - now - and you have plenty of time to live and make that mark. You may not remember but others will, beyond your own existence.

That's comforting to me. I may not exist, but I die so that others may. My atoms - the starlight I am composed of - goes on to continue the cycle. It's hippy, almost disney in a sense, but we really are one. My energy will go on - even without a "mind" - and even that, is comfortable to me.

In some strange way, I've actually existed since the dawn of time. I'm not really going anywhere, just changing a little bit.

If you don't think that's cool, then you're missing out.

Davian · Jun 10, 2011

rjc34 said:
If one were suffering from terminal cancer, and in a state of intense pain at all times, would the most dignified way to go be to end your own life quickly and painlessly, on your own time?

Yes please.

We had a great aunt, 80, living in the nursing home, bent over (could not hold her head up in the wheelchair), still lucid, but barely able to breathe/speak (I could just barely hear her).

Fell out of bed one day, broke her hip. Later, laying in the hospital bed, with tubes in her mouth, she did manage to scrawl out a message to us.

Let me die.

She died before any decision had to be made.

Feroc · Jun 10, 2011

I am only afraid of the way I may die. I just hope, that it won't hurt too much.

But I am somehow relaxed about death itself. Just nothing for the rest of time. Everything will happen, while I won't know anything about it.

Eudaimonist · Jun 10, 2011

vermin06 said:
What I want to know is, what are some of your personal fears involving death? Mine are the amount of pain and suffering I would have to endure physically before hand, I fear it coming suddenly, and I worry for those I'll leave behind (possible financial burdens and the like).

That's pretty much it for me.

I don't fear death itself. It's not something I want to rush, because I love life, but there is nothing in death that is scary. It's not like I will exist while I'm dead.

eudaimonia,

Mark

kutailg8 · Jun 10, 2011

Why do you post here?

Received · Jun 10, 2011

Davian said:
If consciousness is just something the brain does, then it disappears with the death of the brain. You won't be 'unconscious'.

Right, you won't be here. But, again, not being here means no subjectivity, and all I know is limited to subjectivity. Therefore, nonsense term.

I don't mean "nonsense" in the self-contradictory sense. I mean it in the sense that there is no way whatsoever for me to understand the meaning of the term when applied to myself, because I only understand it with reference to other objects.

I can't seem to think of myself as sufficiently important enough to expect that, should the universe be cyclical (or 'restarted'), that the deterministic nature of the universe would have everything happen just so I could exist again. Gotta be some quantum randomness that would make things at least a little (or a lot) different.

Nietzsche would disagree. Of course, I don't think this is egocentric at all. Quantum mechanics or not, it's purely possible from a philosophical standing that his "eternal recurrence" is true: that every atom relates to itself in an infinite number of ways across an infinite length of time (yes, we're making some leaps with apparent physical theories regarding the universe), meaning that my existence as I've known it will repeat an infinite number of times -- and (what Nietzsche and his scholars don't seem to hit on) that (if materialism is true) I'll also experience every possible different angle of this life as I know it given the infinite number of combinations of atoms involved.

Again, not egocentric. Philosophically possible, but very much a stretch (Miguel de Unamuno rightly said that the doctrine of the eternal recurrence was Nietzsche's way of gaining eternal life), surely. The point is that it solves the anxiety-arousing nonsense involved with subjective nonexistence.

Cute Tink · Jun 10, 2011

vermin06 said:
Hmm, maybe, when you're cremated, you view the end of your physical being that you associate as you. Whereas when you're buried, your intact body (IE you) are still existent. I'm just guessing, but does that feel like it could be right?

That could very well be. At least it's as good an explanation as any.

Martingale · Jun 10, 2011

rjc34 said:
If one were suffering from terminal cancer, and in a state of intense pain at all times, would the most dignified way to go be to end your own life quickly and painlessly, on your own time?

I can't peer into anyone's conscience and wouldn't want to on such an intensely personal matter. So, the answer is, "probably for some'.

Personally, I'd like to think I'd do otherwise since taking my own life would be a grave offense in my faith so I might on reconsideration, define dignity in a different way. Pain killing medication is appropriate, but not with the purpose of ending life (yes, I know it happens that way).

I had a relative who ended a cancer ridden life in that manner, except he was assisted, since it was obvious that he didn't have the strength to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] the .38 revolver. this was in a small Louisiana town, and the police turned a blind eye.

Davian · Jun 10, 2011

Received said:
Right, you won't be here. But, again, not being here means no subjectivity, and all I know is limited to subjectivity. Therefore, nonsense term.

I don't mean "nonsense" in the self-contradictory sense. I mean it in the sense that there is no way whatsoever for me to understand the meaning of the term when applied to myself, because I only understand it with reference to other objects.

Nietzsche would disagree. Of course, I don't think this is egocentric at all. Quantum mechanics or not, it's purely possible from a philosophical standing that his "eternal recurrence" is true: that every atom relates to itself in an infinite number of ways across an infinite length of time (yes, we're making some leaps with apparent physical theories regarding the universe), meaning that my existence as I've known it will repeat an infinite number of times -- and (what Nietzsche and his scholars don't seem to hit on) that (if materialism is true) I'll also experience every possible different angle of this life as I know it given the infinite number of combinations of atoms involved.

Again, not egocentric. Philosophically possible, but very much a stretch (Miguel de Unamuno rightly said that the doctrine of the eternal recurrence was Nietzsche's way of gaining eternal life), surely. The point is that it solves the anxiety-arousing nonsense involved with subjective nonexistence.

Philosophically possible, but I was thinking along the lines of Thomas Metzinger in his book Being No One. But that is OT and needs it own thread.

Eudaimonist · Jun 10, 2011

kutailg8 said:
Why do you post here?

Are you asking that of me? I post because no man is an island, and it's a small world after all.

eudaimonia,

Mark

A Question About Death

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