A Pondering of the Peculiar

PsychoSarah said:

Actually, the bible never explicitly states that the serpent is satan or any other demon. That is something the church endorses though.

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Revelation 12:9 ESV

And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

1. God is self-existent Exod. 3:13–14
2. God is self-sufficient Psa. 50:10–12
3. God is eternal Deut. 33:27; Psa. 90:2
4. God is infinite 1 Kings 8:22–27; Jer. 23:24
5. God is omnipresent Psa. 139:7–12
6. God is omnipotent Gen. 18:14;Rev. 19:6
7. God is omniscient Psa. 139:2–6; Isa. 40:13–14
8. God is wise Prov. 3:19; 1 Tim. 1:17
9. God is immutable Heb. 1:10–12; 13:8
10. God is sovereign Isa. 46:9–11
11. God is incomprehensible Job 11:7–19; Rom. 11:33
12. God is holy Lev. 19:2; 1 Pet. 1:15
13. God is righteous and just Psa. 119:137
14. God is true. John 17:3; Titus 1:1–2
15. God is faithful Deut. 7:9; Psa. 89:1–2
16. God is light James 1:17; 1 John 1:5
17. God is good Psa. 107:8
18. God is merciful Psa. 103:8–17
19. God is gracious Psa. 111:4; 1 Pet. 5:10
20. God is love John 3:16; Rom. 5:8
21. God is spirit John 4:24
22. God is one Deut. 6:4–5; Isa. 44:6–8
23. God is a Trinity Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14

1. Lucifer (Isaiah 14:12). This is Satan’s name prior to his fall, it means “star of the morning” and “shining one”.

2. Satan (Mark 4:15). This name simply means adversary. An adversary is an opponent, rival, or enemy.3

3. The devil (Matthew 4:1-11). This name means slanderer. A slanderer is someone who makes a false, malicious statement, especially one which is injurious to one’s reputation.4

4. The prince of the power of the air (Ephesians 2:2). This refers to Satan as he dominates his worldly human subjects.5

5. The god of this age (2 Corinthians 4:4). This is simply a reference to Satan, revealing his rule over the present darkness of this world.

6. The king of death (Hebrews 2:14). This means that Satan has the power of death.

7. The prince of this world (John 12:31). This means that Satan is the ruler of this world.

8. The ruler of darkness (Ephesians 6:12). This name reveals Satan’s rule, authority, and cosmic power over the present darkness of this world.6

9. Leviathan (Isaiah 27:1). This name is a description of a powerful dragon-like creature.7

10. The dragon (Revelation 12:7). This is another name used for Satan, the accuser.

11. The deceiver (Revelation 20:10). This name reveals Satan as one who lies to trick or mislead.

12. Apollyon (Revelation 9:11). This name means a destroyer. A destroyer is someone who causes damage beyond use or repair.8

13. Beelzebub (Matthew 12:24). This name for Satan means “the lord of flies,” or “the lord of dung,” or “the dung god.”

14. Belial (2 Corinthians 6:15). This name is the personification of all that is evil.

15. The wicked one (Matthew 13:38). This name reveals that Satan is evil or mischievous by nature.

16. The tempter (1Thessalonians 3:5). This name reveals that Satan does provoke to cause people to do wrong.

17. The accuser of the brethren (Revelation 12:10). This means Satan charges or places blame or fault on a follower of Christ.

18. An angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14-15). This name reveals Satan as a deceiver.

19. A liar (John 8:44, Genesis 3:4-5). This name reveals that Satan intentionally gives false information.

20. A murderer (John 8:44). This name reveals that Satan deliberately kills.

21. The enemy (Matthew 13:39). This name reveals that Satan is hostile towards, feels hatred towards, opposes the interests of, and intends to hurt God Himself.

22. A roaring lion (1 Peter 5:8). This name describes Satan’s destructive threat.

Study God: THE CHARACTERISTICS OF SATAN By David Buck (May 7, 2010)

1. accuser Revelation 12:10
2. deceiver 2 Corinthians 4:4
3. imitator 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
4. liar, Father of lies John 8:44
5. murderer John 8:44
6. sinner 1 John 3:8
7. father of death Hebrews 2:14
8. tempter Matthew 4
9. oppressor 1 Peter 5:8

•Advocate - 1 John 2:1

•Almighty - Revelation 1:8

• Alpha - Revelation 1:8

•Amen - Revelation 3:14

•Angel of the Lord - Genesis 16:7

•Anointed One - Psalm 2:2

•Apostle - Hebrews 3:1

•Author and Perfecter of our Faith - Hebrews 12:2

•Beginning - Revelation 21:6

•Bishop of Souls - 1 Peter 2:25

•Branch - Zechariah 3:8

• Bread of Life - John 6:35,48

•Bridegroom - Matthew 9:15

•Carpenter - Mark 6:3

•Chief Shepherd - 1 Peter 5:4

•The Christ - Matthew 1:16

•Comforter - Jeremiah 8:18

•Consolation of Israel - Luke 2:25

•Cornerstone - Ephesians 2:20

•Dayspring - Luke 1:78

•Day Star - 2 Peter 1:19

•Deliverer - Romans 11:26

•Desire of Nations - Haggai 2:7

•Emmanuel - Matthew 1:23

•End - Revelation 21:6

•Everlasting Father - Isaiah 9:6

•Faithful and True Witness - Revelation 3:14

•First Fruits - 1 Corinthians 15:23

•Foundation - Isaiah 28:16

•Fountain - Zechariah 13:1

•Friend of Sinners - Matthew 11:19

•Gate for the Sheep - John 10:7

•Gift of God - 2 Corinthians 9:15

•God - John 1:1

•Glory of God - Isaiah 60:1

•Good Shepherd - John 10:11

•Governor - Matthew 2:6

•Great Shepherd - Hebrews 13:20

•Guide - Psalm 48:14

•Head of the Church - Colossians 1:18

•High Priest - Hebrews 3:1

•Holy One of Israel - Isaiah 41:14

•Horn of Salvation - Luke 1:69

•I Am - Exodus 3:14

•Jehovah - Psalm 83:18

•Jesus - Matthew 1:21

•King of Israel - Matthew 27:42

•King of Kings - 1 Timothy 6:15; Revelation 19:16

• Lamb of God - John 1:29

• Last Adam - 1 Corinthians 15:45

•Life - John 11:25

• Light of the World - John 8:12; John 9:5

•Lion of the Tribe of Judah - Revelation 5:5

•Lord of Lords - 1 Timothy 6:15; Revelation 19:16

•Master - Matthew 23:8

•Mediator - 1 Timothy 2:5

•Messiah - John 1:41

•Mighty God - Isaiah 9:6

• Morning Star - Revelation 22:16

•Nazarene - Matthew 2:23

• Omega - Revelation 1:8

• Passover Lamb - 1 Corinthians 5:7

•Physician - Matthew 9:12

•Potentate - 1 Timothy 6:15

•Priest - Hebrews 4:15

•Prince of Peace - Isaiah 9:6

•Prophet - Acts 3:22

•Propitiation - I John 2:2

•Purifier - Malachi 3:3

•Rabbi - John 1:49

•Ransom - 1 Timothy 2:6

•Redeemer - Isaiah 41:14

•Refiner - Malachi 3:2

•Refuge - Isaiah 25:4

• Resurrection - John 11:25

•Righteousness - Jeremiah 23:6

•Rock - Deuteronomy 32:4

•Root of David - Revelation 22:16

•Rose of Sharon - Song of Solomon 2:1

•Ruler of God's Creation - Revelation 3:14

•Sacrifice - Ephesians 5:2

•Savior - 2 Samuel 22:47; Luke 1:47

•Second Adam - 1 Corinthians 15:47

•Seed of Abraham - Galatians 3:16

•Seed of David - 2 Timothy 2:8

•Seed of the Woman - Genesis 3:15

•Servant - Isaiah 42:1

•Shepherd - 1 Peter 2:25

•Shiloh - Genesis 49:10

•Son of David - Matthew 15:22

•Son of God - Luke 1:35

•Son of Man - Matthew 18:11

•Son of Mary - Mark 6:3

•Son of the Most High - Luke 1:32

•Stone - Isaiah 28:16

•Sun of Righteousness - Malachi 4:2

•Teacher - Matthew 26:18

•Truth - John 14:6

•Way - John 14:6

•Wonderful Counselor - Isaiah 9:6

•Word - John 1:1

•Vine - John 15:1

juvenissun said:

Don't argue like a little girl.

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I've always found little girls to be quite astute. But I imagine in real life if one were vexed rather than amused by being bested by a little girl then the peculiar comparison might spring readily to one's mind, if such an occurrence had happened recently that is.

anyathesword said:

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about Fred. Your knowledge and logic about the Bible makes no sense.

And first and foremost don't tell me that I make things up. Just because you don't understand the Bible or the Christian faith, doesn't mean any of it doesn't exist or isn't true.

Why don't you do the excercise I posted above before you keep talking nonsense? We have to start with the basics before we can understand the complicated questions.

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Anya,

For someone who believes the authors of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were those of the same name and were not anonymous as the vast majority of scholars agree on, has obviously not taken any time to investigate the book you rely on so heavily. Your understanding of the book is based on dogma, not objective analysis.

I fully understand why many christians stay away from an objective analysis of the book, because of the realities they would have to face, or come up with a rational to ignore, as they do with certain scientific findings that contradict the bible.

anyathesword said:

If you had just a little knowledge about this book, you would know that is not even logically possible, doesn't make any sense, it would just be a disaster.

If you had a little knowledge about the qualities of God and Satan you could see that it isn't possible for satan to even begin writing what is in the Bible.

That's the reason for the excercise above.

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And how are you familiar with the properties of God and Satan? The bible, right?

It's not possible for Satan to begin writing the bible according to whom or what?

It's impossible for Satan to have written the bible!

According to what?

The bible.

I see.

juvenissun said:

If so, there is base to do any argument. (Either definition 1 or definition 2 but not both.)
In this case, your argument does not hold either. There will be no such thing who is omnipotent, and can not do (*).
Contradiction at definition level makes the whole argument invalid.

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That is my point! There IS NO such thing as something who is both omnipotent AND CANNOT DO *.

THAT is where the logical contradiction is.

Just like, there can be nobody born in both 1950 and 1970.

You can't just assume two contradictory definitions, and ignore that they contradict. That's the whole point of logic exercises; to point out that which contradicts.

Your definitions contradict. They are illogical.

anyathesword said:

If you had just a little knowledge about this book, you would know that is not even logically possible, doesn't make any sense, it would just be a disaster.

If you had a little knowledge about the qualities of God and Satan you could see that it isn't possible for satan to even begin writing what is in the Bible.

That's the reason for the excercise above.

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If satan wrote the Bible, how would YOU even know the qualities of God? Everything written about God in the Bible could be a lie.

That is the point of the exercise. The only reason you think you know the qualities of God and Satan, is because you assume the Bible is true. If Satan wrote the Bible, you couldn't trust the Bible to speak the truth about God, so how would you know anything about him?

ExistenceUnknown said:

I've often wondered - If the Devil is "The Deceiver" and as I've so often heard "God is evident in his creation"...

How are we to know that the Devil didn't write the Bible by whispering in the ears of the inspired?

With this in mind, would it not make more sense to believe in what the Nature of God's creation tells us?

Just a question that often strikes me when people so vehemently defend the literal word.

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The problem isn't the Bible, but man's translation of it into other languages, and in that process interpreting meanings to words based upon their own personal beliefs. Jut because the original in the original languages was inspired by God, does not mean that translators were likewise inspired by God.

It is quite possible the Devil has caused misconceptions to creep into the Bible, which is why the Bible tells you to search diligently. It warns us that he will come to deceive, and he does not come to deceive non-believers, but those who follow the word.

And yes, we are definitely to look to nature to help us understand.

Romans 1:20 "For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse."

Energy, the invisible thing that all things are made of is clearly evident if one studies nature, so that there is no excuse in not comprehending that God is a being of pure energy. Pure mind if you will. Energy can become matter and matter can become energy, and He is in all things and works through all things.

Energy, totally beyond the comprehension of man, even in our modern age.

Justatruthseeker said:

The problem isn't the Bible, but man's translation of it into other languages, and in that process interpreting meanings to words based upon their own personal beliefs. Jut because the original in the original languages was inspired by God, does not mean that translators were likewise inspired by God.

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Bad news for you, then, since we don't have ANY of the originals.

46AND2 said:

Bad news for you, then, since we don't have ANY of the originals.

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Maybe satan destroyed all the originals to cover his tracks.

46AND2 said:

Bad news for you, then, since we don't have ANY of the originals.

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Yep, if the book was so crucial, you would think if God could perform the miracle of divinely inspiring a book, he would also make sure the originals were preserved.

Well, no such luck.

46AND2 said:

That is my point! There IS NO such thing as something who is both omnipotent AND CANNOT DO *.

THAT is where the logical contradiction is.

Just like, there can be nobody born in both 1950 and 1970.

You can't just assume two contradictory definitions, and ignore that they contradict. That's the whole point of logic exercises; to point out that which contradicts.

Your definitions contradict. They are illogical.

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So the conclusion is that there is no God, but not a God who lied, or can lie.

This is not an useful conclusion.

Of course, there is a much better way to define God, which gives the properties of the Christian God and is logically perfect. That is one of the real beauty of Christianity.

juvenissun said:

So the conclusion is that there is no God, but not a God who lied, or can lie.

This is not an useful conclusion.

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It's difficult to say if it is useful or not as it is so incoherent.

But it's sort of funny that because some unsuspecting writer 2 or 3 thousand years ago chose to use the word 'omnipotent' to describe his god, christians have been tying themselves up in knots ever since trying to find a way to wriggle out of the paradox.

I wonder if the same chap was responsible for all the problems arising from the use of the word 'omniscient'.

juvenissun said:

So the conclusion is that there is no God, but not a God who lied, or can lie.

This is not an useful conclusion.

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No, a god who can lie is not excluded, because he only has to fit Definition 1, God is omnipotent.

Of course, there is a much better way to define God, which gives the properties of the Christian God and is logically perfect. That is one of the real beauty of Christianity.

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No there isn't. If you want to believe in the Christian God, you have to DEFY logic.

Your "better way to define God" is to ignore the logical contradictions about how he is defined.

In other words, you'll define God as loving, and caring, and just, and completely ignore the parts that are contradictory:

Like how can Jesus be both 100% man, and 100% god at the same time?

Or, how can God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit be only ONE god?

Or, how can Jesus, an eternal being, sacrifice his life? He's eternal.

juvenissun said:

Of course, there is a much better way to define God, which gives the properties of the Christian God and is logically perfect. That is one of the real beauty of Christianity.

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Or the Christian God is a vicious, jealous, temperamental killer who loves the smell of burning blood.