A plug for father Noah

[Coady]

After reading another thread on Noah and his son Ham I wanted to mention something about Noah that doesn't really pertain to that thread and thought I'd post here if possible. (Moderator: If it shouldn't be in the kitchen sink please feel to free to move it or run it down the garbage disposal!)
I have this extra-biblical theory that what happened to Noah was that after the flood he planted a vineyard but now he was in an entirely different environment than existed before the flood because we are told that in Adam's day the mist from the ground watered the earth. I also think such an environment contributed to the longer life spans mentioned in the pre flood era. So, with that in mind, I think that Noah wasn't prepared for the effects of fermentation and instead of a mild grape juice he unwittingly got hit with the effects of alcohol. I say this even though Jesus did say that in Noah's day they ate, they drank and married...until the flood came. To me that actually makes it even more unlikely that Noah would have knowingly got drunk since he was a preacher of righteousness to that same generation.

 

[ewq1938]

So, with that in mind, I think that Noah wasn't prepared for the effects of fermentation and instead of a mild grape juice he unwittingly got hit with the effects of alcohol.

I disagree. Noah knew what he was doing and knew how to make wine and did that as one of his priorities in his new home.

 

[zephcom]

After reading another thread on Noah and his son Ham I wanted to mention something about Noah that doesn't really pertain to that thread and thought I'd post here if possible. (Moderator: If it shouldn't be in the kitchen sink please feel to free to move it or run it down the garbage disposal!)
I have this extra-biblical theory that what happened to Noah was that after the flood he planted a vineyard but now he was in an entirely different environment than existed before the flood because we are told that in Adam's day the mist from the ground watered the earth. I also think such an environment contributed to the longer life spans mentioned in the pre flood era. So, with that in mind, I think that Noah wasn't prepared for the effects of fermentation and instead of a mild grape juice he unwittingly got hit with the effects of alcohol. I say this even though Jesus did say that in Noah's day they ate, they drank and married...until the flood came. To me that actually makes it even more unlikely that Noah would have knowingly got drunk since he was a preacher of righteousness to that same generation.

I think people should grasp one important thing from the Bible, when they talk about wine they mean alcohol. Grapes are the only fruit which will make drinkable alcohol without adding anything to the mix. the yeast grows naturally on the grape. The moisture content is correct. The balance of sugars is correct.

If you mash grapes, put them in a container and wait, you WILL have alcohol. It is unavoidable. They did this on purpose because sanitation wasn't all that good in those days. Cities upstream from you dumped their poop in the river you got your drinking water from. Alcohol kills germs. People who drank alcohol didn't get sick like people who didn't.

Lots of people in those days were tipsy all the time. Fortunately they didn't have cars to drive then.

The alcohol content may not been what wine has today, but it was alcohol. And one could get drunk on it.

 

[Jonaitis]

After reading another thread on Noah and his son Ham I wanted to mention something about Noah that doesn't really pertain to that thread and thought I'd post here if possible. (Moderator: If it shouldn't be in the kitchen sink please feel to free to move it or run it down the garbage disposal!)
I have this extra-biblical theory that what happened to Noah was that after the flood he planted a vineyard but now he was in an entirely different environment than existed before the flood because we are told that in Adam's day the mist from the ground watered the earth. I also think such an environment contributed to the longer life spans mentioned in the pre flood era. So, with that in mind, I think that Noah wasn't prepared for the effects of fermentation and instead of a mild grape juice he unwittingly got hit with the effects of alcohol. I say this even though Jesus did say that in Noah's day they ate, they drank and married...until the flood came. To me that actually makes it even more unlikely that Noah would have knowingly got drunk since he was a preacher of righteousness to that same generation.

If he planted a vineyard, and he made a beverage from the fruit of his labor, then wine-making was already a thing. Where did he store the wine? He must have made something ceramic to hold it, which is possibly older than him. I mean, fire was already known by the time of Cain and Abel, how else did they burn the fat of the animals as a burnt offering to God? We don't give as much credit to the ancients as we should for their innovation and "wits."

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

The only argument I can make in favor of the OP involves the Book of Enoch and its mention of a much colder climate before the Flood than what we normally think of as Middle Eastern. If the climate was much colder, then it might have been possible to make and use grape juice without excessive fermentation. Apart from that, I don't know.

 

[ewq1938]

The only argument I can make in favor of the OP involves the Book of Enoch and its mention of a much colder climate before the Flood than what we normally think of as Middle Eastern. If the climate was much colder, then it might have been possible to make and use grape juice without excessive fermentation. Apart from that, I don't know.

It would have to be Arctic conditions to keep it from fermenting into wine.

I think the real question is it even a sin to get drunk occasionally. Doesn't seem to have been described as having been sinful for either Noah or Job when being drunk did happen.

 

[Cement]

One thing I always fascinated me about Noahs days before the deluge was apparently the Garden of Eden was still intact, guarded but there. Could all of those people who wanted to see an Angel simply walk past its gates and see the Cherubim?

 

[Jonaitis]

The only argument I can make in favor of the OP involves the Book of Enoch and its mention of a much colder climate before the Flood than what we normally think of as Middle Eastern. If the climate was much colder, then it might have been possible to make and use grape juice without excessive fermentation. Apart from that, I don't know.

Well, the process of fermentation doesn't get very far in a couple of days, it takes at least several weeks. Noah must have known what he was doing to allow it to reach to the appropriate alcohol level, or if it was lighter he drank more than he should have knowingly. As ewq1938 said, the only way it would not ferment is if the conditions were extremely cold enough to prevent the process.

 

[ewq1938]

One thing I always fascinated me about Noahs days before the deluge was apparently the Garden of Eden was still intact, guarded but there. Could all of those people who wanted to see an Angel simply walk past its gates and see the Cherubim?

I doubt it was like that for too long. I believe the tree of life was removed so the garden didn't need guarding anymore.

 

[ewq1938]

Well, the process of fermentation doesn't get very far in a couple of days, it takes at least several weeks.

I have wine grapes on my property and have made wine. It actually only takes a week or less for drinkable alcoholic wine...longer makes the wine stronger but it can be done much quicker than 3 weeks

 

[Jonaitis]

I have wine grapes on my property and have made wine. It actually only takes a week or less for drinkable alcoholic wine...longer makes the wine stronger but it can be done much quicker than 3 weeks

It depends on the kind of yeast you use too. I have been using baker's yeast and it does good for one week (not as strong). My last batch was done in a week, my current batch I'm going to leave for another. I haven't been able to use airlocks for mine (which I am hoping doesn't go bad).

What I mean though is for regular fermentation, which back in the day took at least two weeks (or so I read somewhere long time ago). I could be wrong.

 

[Coady]

Original poster back again ... I think I'm going to have to find a meme of a world war II plane going down in smoke ...By the way, I didn't intend to imply that the bible speaks against drinking - it actually doesn't. As to whether the one man that God saw as righteous in his generation intentionally got drunk - I still don't think so.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

It would have to be Arctic conditions to keep it from fermenting into wine.

I'm not necessarily endorsing the Book of Enoch, but it makes the weather sound downright frigid, like an ice age. I've never had the juice in my refrigerator turn to wine.

What I mean though is for regular fermentation, which back in the day took at least two weeks (or so I read somewhere long time ago). I could be wrong.

Depends on whether they reused the same vessels, because that has an effect on the phase of the yeast's life cycle (very complex, if you look into it).

 

[Dave-W]

I have this extra-biblical theory that what happened to Noah was that after the flood he planted a vineyard but now he was in an entirely different environment than existed before the flood because we are told that in Adam's day the mist from the ground watered the earth. I also think such an environment contributed to the longer life spans mentioned in the pre flood era. So, with that in mind, I think that Noah wasn't prepared for the effects of fermentation

I have heard that theory before, first proposed (I think) by Donald Wesley Patten in his 1980 book "The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch."

 

[Sketcher]

After reading another thread on Noah and his son Ham I wanted to mention something about Noah that doesn't really pertain to that thread and thought I'd post here if possible. (Moderator: If it shouldn't be in the kitchen sink please feel to free to move it or run it down the garbage disposal!)
I have this extra-biblical theory that what happened to Noah was that after the flood he planted a vineyard but now he was in an entirely different environment than existed before the flood because we are told that in Adam's day the mist from the ground watered the earth. I also think such an environment contributed to the longer life spans mentioned in the pre flood era. So, with that in mind, I think that Noah wasn't prepared for the effects of fermentation and instead of a mild grape juice he unwittingly got hit with the effects of alcohol. I say this even though Jesus did say that in Noah's day they ate, they drank and married...until the flood came. To me that actually makes it even more unlikely that Noah would have knowingly got drunk since he was a preacher of righteousness to that same generation.

It's a lot easier to say that he misjudged how much he could drink. People do it all the time. They're not as young as they used to be, the drink turned out stronger than they were expecting, perhaps they sustained a concussion or other medical condition that lowered their limit, etc.

 

[Coady]

Right Sketcher, I can see that. There was a post on another thread that kind of put shade on Noah but it's ok - God sees the heart.

"Son of man, if a land sins against Me by acting unfaithfully, and I stretch out My hand against it to cut off its supply of bread, to send famine upon it, and to cut off from it both man and beast, 14 then even if these three men— Noah, Daniel, and Job— were in it, their righteousness could deliver only themselves, declares the Lord GOD.

 

[Coady]

I have heard that theory before, first proposed (I think) by Donald Wesley Patten in his 1980 book "The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch."

Thanks Dave-W. That makes two! Reminding me about the clock that's right twice each day!

 

[Nithavela]

Original poster back again ... I think I'm going to have to find a meme of a world war II plane going down in smoke ...By the way, I didn't intend to imply that the bible speaks against drinking - it actually doesn't. As to whether the one man that God saw as righteous in his generation intentionally got drunk - I still don't think so.

Do you think that Jesus would have supported drinking alcohol?

 

[ewq1938]

Do you think that Jesus would have supported drinking alcohol?

Of course. He drank wine himself and made it at least once.

 

[Nithavela]

Of course. He drank wine himself and made it at least once.

Spoilsport.