a new found worship

[jehovahjira]

last sunday a message was givin to me through my preacher it was titled "worship" and i've never heard the story of abraham and isaac like this before!!!! it was overwhelming because the message became a very powerful message and it went something like this

"open your bibles to genesis 22 chapter verse 3-13
3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.
5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ok now to show you something that i think 95% of evangelist,preachers,prophets and leaders miss this.
First is the 5th verse 5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
notice abraham said WE WILL COME BACK i use the niv version but this is the kjv, anyway the point is ABRAHAM KNEW HIM AND HIS SON WERE COMING BACK!!!!! abraham and isaac both saw JESUS. JESUS CONFIRMS THIS"will discuss this later" heres the verse "7" a lamb for the offering but was it not a ram caught in the thicket. third point abraham said we will worship, every time abraham got out of worship he messed up, only in worship did he complete the trials and things GOD had him do, worship is not raising your hands or shouting or singing its letting your spirit bow before GOD almighty and empting yourself and to expect , now to prove JESUS confimes my statement turn to john chapter 8: 55-56 55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it , and was glad.

abraham & isaac saw JESUS ,now my pastor and I believe this, GOD may have been testing abraham's faith but we believe that the TRUE message was that GOD was revealing to abraham that THE LAMB OF GOD WAS COMING TO be SACRAFISED, some of you may not believe this but john the baptise was JESUS'S FIRST COUSIN now try to Imagin if these two had met as kids or as teenagers only once did john call JESUS the LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKEN AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD i believe THE SPIRIT REVEALED TO john WHO JESUS WAS right then right there anyway WORSHIP ISN'T A SUNDAY THING ITS A SPIRIT THING AN ANNOUNCEMENT TO GOD THAT YOUR HERE BEFORE HIM PRAISING HIM WITH THAT I LEAVE YOU WITH THIS THOUGHT EVERY OLD AND NEW PROPHET WHO LEFT WORSHIP WAT DID THEY GAIN? WHEN THEY DID WORSHIP WHAT DID THEY DO?

by the way i'm back lol

 

[Evie1980]

Welcome back Jehovajira. Interesting reflection on this passage. It's very important that we put faith in our faith. Abraham believed his faith to be true. He didn't have a back up plan for the 'just in case'. I wonder what he must of been thinking when he loaded up the donkey. I imagine if it were me I would be thinking - well I know that God told me to do this but what if it ...?

We learn a lot from Abraham. For sure he made his own measure of mistakes a long the way but he alsways turned back to God and was richly rewarded for his faith. That is the great hope for us all - we can always turn back to God and He will accept us with His love and mercy. We also learn tohave faith in our faith. Abraham had to trust his faith in God was right. That is still hard for us sometimes. We may not be asked to sacrifice our son but we are asked to sacrifice many things in our lives, things that are important to us. For example I was asked to sacrifice my dream of marrying the man that I wanted to and live a blissful life in Australia. I am now standing at the altar still wanting to go home and fulfil this. The choice is mine - will I sacrifice it? Or will I keep it and ignore God's will? If I sacrifice will God provide for me? Do I really have faith in my faith?

Thanks for that wonderful insight. You have halped me to open my eyes to God. May God bless, Evie

 

[jehovahjira]

dear beloved Evie1980 faith is important but we have stumbled on something far FAR FAR!!!!!! more important see when you have a severe disease you fall before GOD and beg HIM pray to HIM and even SING to HIM and HE answers now my question is this to all of you when you've done this whats it called? it's not begging its not faith it's not hoping it's called worship and in worship our flesh leaves us because only in worship do we really really REALLY come face to face with GOD

 

[Blank123]

I'm not sure how much I can agree in putting our faith in faith itself. The Bible only tells us to put our faith in the Lord and really.. if my faith is in God alone, what more do I need?

I can trust God will be the one to guide and take care of me even if I can't feel His presence or if I am afraid but if my faith is in my faith thats going to be one shaky foundation that is going to crash pretty quickly, heh. My faith has no strength or power on its own, its my faith in God and God working through me that sustains me

 

[jehovahjira]

little_tigress though you make a good point

I'm not sure how much I can agree in putting our faith in faith itself. The Bible only tells us to put our faith in the Lord and really.. if my faith is in God alone, what more do I need?

but i must say abraham walked the mountain in faith but something else took place he bowed down he gave GOD praise he WORSHIPED HIM who can have faith in GOD but only in worship the MISSING link is no longer missing your hearing GOD your feeling GOD your kissing GOD'S FACE faith is important but in my new found belief and facts i find worship more important than faith

 

[intricatic]

little_tigress though you make a good point but i must say abraham walked the mountain in faith but something else took place he bowed down he gave GOD praise he WORSHIPED HIM who can have faith in GOD but only in worship the MISSING link is no longer missing your hearing GOD your feeling GOD your kissing GOD'S FACE faith is important but in my new found belief and facts i find worship more important than faith

Um, faith is more important than all else when it comes to worship. Faith is what worship comes from. Not faith in a tree, or faith in a rock, or a bull, or a goat, but faith in Christ.

 

[Blank123]

little_tigress though you make a good point but i must say abraham walked the mountain in faith but something else took place he bowed down he gave GOD praise he WORSHIPED HIM who can have faith in GOD but only in worship the MISSING link is no longer missing your hearing GOD your feeling GOD your kissing GOD'S FACE faith is important but in my new found belief and facts i find worship more important than faith

worship is more important than faith?

6And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. - Hebrews 11:6

unless you have faith there's no point in worshipping and those feelings you're talking about become pointless because they're based upon nothing

 

[2LivIsChrist]

When we have faith in God, we are worshiping him. Worship isn't just an act of singing, its an act of glorifing God through our faith in him. We can't worship, unless we have faith. We should worship in spirit and in truth through the faith that we have in Christ.

 

[jehovahjira]

intricatic your half way right see we have been taught without faith we have nothing!!!!! not SO!!! lemme repeat that for you!!!! NOT SO lemme give you 1 example moses it took 400 years to bring out the israelites out of egypt now they prayed they sang and was thankful now they put their faith in GOD and HE delivered them using moses had they just worshiped him day and night it would have not taken 400 YEARS they would have heard HIM though i dunno if they would have left cause they gave moses fits but heres something to look at JESUS in the garden where HE prayed GOD had spoken to JESUS see JESUS knew wat worship was and knew how important it was as does the devil after all he was an angel of worship even satan tried it Matthew 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
worship is more than faith its more than just singing its laying down titles denomination self and other things if you trully worship you begin to see things and feel things diffrently

 

[intricatic]

No; faith and understanding is all there is. Worship comes as a result of faith, not the other way around.

Hosea 4
6 my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.
"Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also reject you as my priests;
because you have ignored the law of your God,
I also will ignore your children.

 

[Blank123]

we need to bring some Bible passages into this thread - we can talk until we're all blue in the face about what we belive on this matter but it won't matter one way or the other unless we can go to the Bible and see what it has to say on this subject



1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.


8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.


13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” 19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones.

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s command.
24 By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25 choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, 26 esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt; for he looked to the reward.
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, lest he who destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned.

30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they were encircled for seven days. 31 By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.
32 And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again.
Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
(faith, faith, faith... I'm noticing a trend in this chapter... )


and then we can pop over to James to see that is is because of our faith that we worship God with the way we live our lives

14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. - James 2:14-26

but notice it can't go the other way... if you have no faith - God takes no pleasure in any of your acts even the ones that outwardly worship God.


21 "I hate, I despise your religious feasts;
I cannot stand your assemblies.
22 Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
I will not accept them.
Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,
I will have no regard for them.
23 Away with the noise of your songs!
I will not listen to the music of your harps. 24 But let justice roll on like a river,
righteousness like a never-failing stream! - Amos 5:21-24

6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice,
and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings. - Hosea 6:6

10 Hear the word of the LORD,
You rulers of Sodom;
Give ear to the law of our God,
You people of Gomorrah:
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?
Says the LORD.

I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
And the fat of fed cattle.
I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
Or of lambs or goats.
12 When you come to appear before Me,
Who has required this from your hand,
To trample My courts?
13 Bring no more futile sacrifices;
Incense is an abomination to Me.
The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies
I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting.
14 Your New Moons and your appointed feasts
My soul hates;
They are a trouble to Me,
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands,
I will hide My eyes from you;
Even though you make many prayers,
I will not hear.
Your hands are full of blood. - Isaiah 10:10-15

 

[Evie1980]

I'm not sure how much I can agree in putting our faith in faith itself. The Bible only tells us to put our faith in the Lord and really.. if my faith is in God alone, what more do I need?

I can trust God will be the one to guide and take care of me even if I can't feel His presence or if I am afraid but if my faith is in my faith thats going to be one shaky foundation that is going to crash pretty quickly, heh. My faith has no strength or power on its own, its my faith in God and God working through me that sustains me

little_tigress thank you so much for your reply. It has brought into light a couple pf points that I will think on later. Please don't think that I am not aware of the importance of faith in God and Him alone. I was merely talking out loud for myself thus I am very sorry that you felt that I was implying something that I was not. I am not going to try and explain it all now as this thread is going in a total different direction now.

May God bless and keep you, Evie

 

[jehovahjira]

dear lil tigress first i never said if you worship you can't or won't or don't have faith.faith is belief as you have proof in what you type now you quoted faith over and over total the word faith appears 231 times in the kjv starting from Deuteronomy to Revelation now worship starts from Genesis to Revelation and is only mentioned 100 times i believe in my GOD i believe in JESUS and the HOLY SPIRIT i also believe JESUS was a priest too it's written in the bible an example of faith is elijah and the watered down burn't offering in front of 820 people i believe it was 820 not sure but the point is
Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
i perfer the new testiment because the new is better than the old wineskin although i go back to the laws of the old testiment but i like to keep in mind that if they had no bible to go by and nothing but the voice of GOD then they were and are far better off than we are they didn't have nothing but the voice of JESUS and GOD but anyway worship and faith are two diffrent things lets see what JESUS has to say about faith
Matthew 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Matthew 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.
Matthew 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

Matthew 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth [his] hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
Matthew 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
now lets see what HE says about worship
Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

the woman at the well
that sums most of what i have to say she stirred something in JESUS i believe it was worship because HE said to the apostles when they came back i have meat to eat that ye know not of.
this IS the meat of which i want to know of i want some of that meat i want to be full when you see JESUS you see 2 diffrent things when HE speaks of faith and worship and i want the type of worship thats fills you physically and spiritually