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Heber

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The Messianic Movement, as a whole, does not have a creed to which everyone who takes the title 'Messianic' should adhere, although there are a few groups who have an in-house version.

If we were writing a definitive Creed (in the style of the Apostles' or Nicene Creeds), for the Movement, what would be, for you, a key part of such a Creed, and why?
 
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aniello

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To what good purpose would, or could, such creed be?
 
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visionary

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To what good purpose would, or could, such creed be?
once a description is defined, then the insiders have to bow down to the decrees to remain within the group. Those outside these definitions called creeds will be classified as heretics. Just as it has been for all the other movements God has called, chosen, and moved to listen to His voice and obey. It is the sad case of outside and inside, doors closed, and invitation to join because they think they can capture God. My God is infinite, and while narrow is His Way, finite minds are just getting a feel for how He is.

This discussion board reveals just much there is to know God. Those who have been captivated, captured within one setting are the most difficult to even think of considers outside the traditional box. Rather than always being humble enough to realize that God has a lot more to reveal to us if we would just let Him guide us away from the worlds understanding and more into His understanding.

Prophecies are a case in point. They reveal that there is more to come. We know that the mystery of God is not finished yet. We know that we have not been given the hidden manna, new names, and eaten the scroll so that we can go out and prophecy again.


What would happen if the two witnesses do not jive with the creed, would we disqualify them based on the creed? Or would we open up our hearts, scripture, and minds to God to reveal if they are the ones sent from God with the last message for earth before He returns.
 
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Heber

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Oh dear, you really have some serious problems that need dealing with!
 
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Heber

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With such diverse beliefs and views, I was wondering if it's even possible?

That is just the point of the exercise. It is NOT asking anyone to create a Creed, but to debate the essentials that would be taken as a 'given' by the posters here. Given all the debates we have on here, all flavoured by our own particular beliefs, ideologies and other 'baggage', what are the essential commonalities shared by all as a basis for faith and belief for Messianics, whether seen through the eyes of Jews or Gentiles, Messianic or not?

For example - I would have thought one key belief should be that a Messianic should believe in Yeshua as Messiah - but perhaps not. It seems that the usual paranoia kicks in, instead; perhaps that is a key prerequisite for all Messianics. It certainly seems so on these fora!



It might have been easier to take my research out onto the street to the non-believers!
 
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ChavaK

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For example - I would have thought one easy belief should be that a Messianic should believe in Yeshua as Messiah - but perhaps not.
Well, I would assume that would be a necessity, otherwise why would it
be "Messianic"?
 
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aniello

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Originally Posted by aniello
To what good purpose would, or could, such creed be?
With such diverse beliefs and views, I was wondering if it's even possible?

Good point, me too.

Probably it would result in shrieking, spitting, hissing and cat fights that would provide many "closed" threads as previously demonstrated, already yet, particularly were it attempted here.

BUT, I was merely asking Heber, basically, if such a creed existed, where would we/they/whoever go with it? I meant it as a simple question not as an invitation to a fight or, for some, a voyage into outer space or something or something or something. Gee WHIZZZZZZZZZZZ!

Looking forward this afternoon to an arraignment hearing on a fairly serious violent crime. The judge is behind a bullet-proof bench, my staff and I wear Kevlar vests and such. It will be a comparatively peaceful time and everyone, in one administering or another, is under oath to tell the truth, etcetra. Sometimes I wonder what a thorough enema and the administration of the oath might do here.

aniello
 
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ContraMundum

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Well, usually Creeds are borne out of the issues of the day, with some re-affirmation of orthodox beliefs. I guess it would take a lot of discussion about what those issues are (not to mention if a new creed is necessary at all etc.) and then it would go from there.

It might have been easier to take my research out onto the street to the non-believers!

Good point.
 
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Heber

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see.. such a comment as this is a prime example of the inside outside creed abuse.

Not at all - I wish it were that easy, then one could cope with it. Your stock in trade answer is that which I have highlighted. I wonder if you are aware how many times you give that same response, or slight variations of it, to a whole variety of posts by various people? The fact that you have done it again supports my point.
 
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Heber

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Possibly not - the simple point of the OP is to invite people to say what they feel are the key things a Messianic ought to believe in order to come under the title 'Messianic'; in other words it would be a bit like Bebbington's quadrilateral. These key points can certainly be debated, as they deserve to be, and really ought to be, and would provide much meat for those who are serious on here, but there was not, and never has been, any attempt at imposing a creed to divide us, or any others, or even wanting to (there would be no point, as has already be noted, and as can be seen, even in this short thread)!
 
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visionary

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The same I can say for you also.
 
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yonah_mishael

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But, I just came to find out that there isn't even a consistent view among MJs regarding the function of Torah in the lives of believers in Yeshua/Jesus. I wasn't aware that there was "One Law" and "Two House" and other such. I also have to wonder what points could be raised in the formation of a creed which would include all of the various expressions of Messianic Judaism, including those which are non-Trinitarian, etc. What a difficult job!!

One thing's for certain - the SoF here on the forum certainly doesn't represent all MJs.
 
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anisavta

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This comes from Congregation Etz Chaim in Illinois.
 
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yonah_mishael

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Come to think of it, I can't imagine any single creed that Reform or Conservative Judaism would acknowledge completely. There are the historic Reform platforms, but those would pretty much be rejected by today's Reform Jews, who have returned to a more centrist approach and have begun to incorporate far more ritual in their lives than in the past.

Do you think that all Messianics would agree with what you've posted here from that one congregation?
 
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