A little rant

Sorry but I have to get this out. Today I got a letter in the mail from my parents who are Catholic. I haven't spoken to them in years when I left the church they basically disowned me and refuse to speak with me. Anyway I was a little excited at first cause I thought perhaps they were going to want to speak with me or accept me again. Ok so I opened the letter and there was a mass card inside... I was very upset at that point and I hadn't even started reading the letter yet. Apparently I don't know how but they found out I have been going to a messianic congregation and looking into torah observance. They expressed their concern with my soul saying God will not allow me into heaven if I associate or practice anything jewish, that God has forgotten the jews since they rejected him and they are praying for me (hence the mass card) to come back home to the catholic church and perhaps God will forgive me. It breaks my heart I don't know how to respond they make it sound like I am joining a cult or something!! I want more than anything to honor them but how?? I want to respond to their letter but I can't now I am too upset and will say something I regret..

Yeah, my husbands grandmother pretty much said similar - 'that he's lost'. It's very sad and very disturbing at the same time. And the attitude Catholics have towards Jews or anything similar is even more disturbing! I love my inlaws, so much and they are nice to us dispite the big differences. They refuse to talk about religion though for that very reason. I don't know which is worse. My husband just this past year (or maybe it was last year) sent in a letter to the local diocese where he grew up renouncing his baptism and confirmation.

I wish I knew what to tell you as far as the next step, know that I'll pray for you. If you like I can pass this on to my husband, he may have better wisdom on the subject since he too came from a staunch Catholic background. Let me know!

Catholics are pretty big on believing you must remain within the Catholic Church. You could respond back by telling them about your life, how things are going, what you are doing aside from religious pursuits. Just be chatty and tell them you love them. The ball will be in their court and you will have no done anything disrespectful.

I honestly have to disagree, it would be almost rude not to respond to their great concern. I don't think they are trying to be nit-picky but they are genuinely concerned for his soul so chit-chat just won't help at this point.

JRSut1000 said:

I honestly have to disagree, it would be almost rude not to respond to their great concern. I don't think they are trying to be nit-picky but they are genuinely concerned for his soul so chit-chat just won't help at this point.

Click to expand...

Well, I guess we're of two different opinions. I believe that I am a grown woman and I do not answer my my parents. If they were going to quit speaking to me then send me a letter all about how I am lost for all of eternity and Jews were abandoned by God I do not owe them any explanations. Actually the OP didn't say her parents wanted explanations. They were just voicing their concern (while probably trying to manipulate her). I don't see it as disrespectful to send them a friendly letter updating them on her life and expressing her love for them. She doesn't have to bare her religious and spiritual soul to anyone who brings it up. Including her parents.

Not nit picky? They quit speaking to her because she left the church. I was responding to the OP, not talking about your husband.

I know, we're both talking about the OP (embarrassingly enough, I said 'his' instead of 'her') Another late night oopsie!

Remember 5th commandment....honor your parents. Thank them for their concern,
that you know that they wish only the best for you. But that you have found a different
spiritual path. Perhaps you can discuss that path with them; perhaps they have unfounded fears on issues that you can help them over come. Let them know that
you are not becoming Jewish, nor are you practicing Judaism....and of course remind
them Jesus was a Jew

ChavaK said:

Let them know that
you are not becoming Jewish, nor are you practicing Judaism....and of course remind
them Jesus was a Jew

Click to expand...

That might settle them a little bit, but 'messianic jew' probably won't that much. Either way, even if she decided to become a baptist or mormon they would have also feared for her soul because it's not catholic.

First

I'm not sure where you live, or your age - but I did want to get this out.
Your parents are your parents. If you were raised in a religious household, it's only natural that the parents who taught you about spiritual matters, would be concerned for your soul even when you grow up and move out of the house - even if you're married with your own kids. With them being Catholic, it is quite natural for them to try and welcome you back into that fold.

That being said, only you can decide whether you want to continue in that path or not, and how tactfully you want to place your ball in their court. I must admit my parents and I were under very strained relations when I was attending a messianic congregation while living in their home (though over 18) and it did not get better until I moved out. We now see eye to eye on many things. It just took me moving and them reading and researching afterward for them to change their mind.

Anyhow... as Chava said, you do have to respect your parents. Doesn't mean you have to agree with them or go along with all their plans for your life, it means that you have to treat them justly and respectfully - even if they're the meanest people in the entire world (not that they are) because that is how we are to be to our parents.

I must say I am quite thankful for my inlaws, who are catholic. They are as much family to me as my own naturally born family, and my MIL treats me like her own daughter. They've actually been more understanding about our beliefs than my family who are mostly Baptist/Lutheran background.

While I do disagree with my extended family theologically on many points, I find ways to get out of theological discussions when I know they'll just go sour. There's lots more in our lives going on that can be discussed amicably. I love them to death, and wouldn't give them all away for anything. We actually agree on some things, though we disagree on others. Our theological discussions are less "lively" than those I have with my family back home, because the presupposition that someone must be wrong isn't there. There's an openness and honesty about their questions that I just don't get with some of my family who simply parrot off things they've been told. My MIL will actually investigate what we say, and what positions she holds before making her final decisions.

Try your best to think on the good times, and contact them and let them know your wishes, and try to get together again as a family, even if you are walking different theological walks. It's not good for a family to be so divided and divisive.

Yeshua said He would divide families.

My baptist "family" has disowned me because I'm Torah observant (that was the final straw in a long list of dysfunctional family symptoms including a narcissistic mother who always put me down and had the rest of the family put me down) I cut out all contact with them after my dad died two years ago.

I would have mixed feelings receiving such a letter. One, your family is concerned with your soul so possibly craft a tactful response showing them why you are Torah observant so they may be exposed to the truth. On the other hand, this is likely a tactic from the enemy to try and ensnare you back into the catholic church. My dad's family were all mormons and they tried this with him up until he died (my dad seemed to have accepted following Torah before he died and I think he may have been truly saved) --- and my aunt tried to ensnare me into the mormon church up until I cut off all family contact.

You should probably contact them so they at least get some exposure to truth although do not let yourself get ensnared back into any false beliefs. Use what the enemy has planned to trip you up to show your family the truth but do not expect anything to come of it (IE: family contact)

Would anyone be recommending OP contact their family if the family were neo-nazis to make peace with them? I thought not. Yeshua said He would divide families because of different beliefs.

Truthseeker84 said:

Sorry but I have to get this out. Today I got a letter in the mail from my parents who are Catholic. I haven't spoken to them in years when I left the church they basically disowned me and refuse to speak with me. Anyway I was a little excited at first cause I thought perhaps they were going to want to speak with me or accept me again. Ok so I opened the letter and there was a mass card inside... I was very upset at that point and I hadn't even started reading the letter yet. Apparently I don't know how but they found out I have been going to a messianic congregation and looking into torah observance. They expressed their concern with my soul saying God will not allow me into heaven if I associate or practice anything jewish, that God has forgotten the jews since they rejected him and they are praying for me (hence the mass card) to come back home to the catholic church and perhaps God will forgive me. It breaks my heart I don't know how to respond they make it sound like I am joining a cult or something!! I want more than anything to honor them but how?? I want to respond to their letter but I can't now I am too upset and will say something I regret..

Click to expand...

Really?

Apparently they aren't real Catholics then, because the Catholic Church is the softest on Judaism of any Christian denomination (see: Nostra Aetate and The correct way to present the Jews and Judaism
in preaching and catechesis in the Roman Catholic Church)

Are they SSPX or something like that? Knowledgeable Catholics would never write what your parents did because it goes against Catholic teaching. So, would we be right in suggesting that they are non-Vatican traditionalists or something?

ContraMundum said:

Really?

Apparently they aren't real Catholics then, because the Catholic Church is the softest on Judaism of any Christian denomination (see: Nostra Aetate and The correct way to present the Jews and Judaism
in preaching and catechesis in the Roman Catholic Church)

Are they SSPX or something like that? Knowledgeable Catholics would never write what your parents did because it goes against Catholic teaching. So, would we be right in suggesting that they are non-Vatican traditionalists or something?

Click to expand...

Indeed. In her situation, I think I would use the mass card (whatever that is) to contact the vicar and ask some questions about the Church's views on Jews. Find out what kind of Catholic church it is. I imagine that her parents are behaving in a manner inconsistent with the Church's views, and it might be possible to get the vicar to help her meet with her parents and soften their extremism with some explanations of allowances within their common faith - since the OP obviously still believes in Jesus and is still a Christian. Certainly modern Catholicism is ecumenical enough to include those who wish to pursue the MJ faith. I would look for help from the vicar.

That would be an interesting route to take.. with CM's info... and see if it is a personal understanding of the parents or is the church advocating such a stance.

ContraMundum said:

Really?

Apparently they aren't real Catholics then, because the Catholic Church is the softest on Judaism of any Christian denomination (see: Nostra Aetate and The correct way to present the Jews and Judaism
in preaching and catechesis in the Roman Catholic Church)

Are they SSPX or something like that? Knowledgeable Catholics would never write what your parents did because it goes against Catholic teaching. So, would we be right in suggesting that they are non-Vatican traditionalists or something?

Click to expand...

I just read through "The correct way..." that you presented above. Very interesting.


With this background, I think it would be more than expected that the vicar would be a good contact to make in order to attempt to relieve the worries of the parents in this situation.

Truthseeker84 said:

Sorry but I have to get this out. Today I got a letter in the mail from my parents who are Catholic. I haven't spoken to them in years when I left the church they basically disowned me and refuse to speak with me. Anyway I was a little excited at first cause I thought perhaps they were going to want to speak with me or accept me again. Ok so I opened the letter and there was a mass card inside... I was very upset at that point and I hadn't even started reading the letter yet. Apparently I don't know how but they found out I have been going to a messianic congregation and looking into torah observance. They expressed their concern with my soul saying God will not allow me into heaven if I associate or practice anything jewish, that God has forgotten the jews since they rejected him and they are praying for me (hence the mass card) to come back home to the catholic church and perhaps God will forgive me. It breaks my heart I don't know how to respond they make it sound like I am joining a cult or something!! I want more than anything to honor them but how?? I want to respond to their letter but I can't now I am too upset and will say something I regret..

Click to expand...

Sadden to hear of your experience and praying that things would turn out for the best for ya. But in regards to what you noted, I think that perhaps it'd be best to discuss/study up on the issue of how many Messianic Jews are actively involved in Catholic Circles---and many Catholic churches have LONG been in support of Messianics for ages. This is something that often is seen best whenever it comes to groups known as Hebrew Catholics (or Byzantine Catholics/Eastern Catholics who are Jewish). For one group of Catholics to dogmatically claim that all others not apart of their own fellowship are lost is odd when seeing how the sheer level of diversity within Catholicism doesn't allow for such views.


On the issue of Hebrew Catholics, some of this was discussed before in #4 /#33. Additionally, for some good resources on the issue of how Hebrew Catholics have been bridging the gaps between Messianic Fellowships and Catholics, one can go to the following:

• More on Catholic Messianic Judaism |Rosh Pina Project
• Catholics for Israel - Messianic and Catholic: Mark Neugebauer
• Syriac Catholics and Messianic Jews - Catholic Answers Forums
• Reborn Jewish Christianity: Messianic Jews and Hebrew Catholics ...
• Are Jewish Converts Still Jewish - Association of Hebrew Catholics

And for more, here's something that was noted by one of the Hebrew Catholic Jews whom the Rabbi at my fellowship corresponded with for some time. In their words:

yonah_mishael said:

I just read through "The correct way..." that you presented above. Very interesting.

Religious teaching, catechesis and preaching should be a preparation not only for objectivity, justice, tolerance but also for understanding and dialogue. Our two traditions [that is, Christianity and Judaism] are so related that they cannot ignore each other. Mutual knowledge must be encouraged at every level. There is evident in particular a painful ignorance of the history and traditions of Judaism, of which only negative aspects and often caricature seem to form part of the stock ideas of many Christians.
​

With this background, I think it would be more than expected that the vicar would be a good contact to make in order to attempt to relieve the worries of the parents in this situation.

Click to expand...

I agree. The RCC made great strides in the last half century or so toward tolerance and understanding of Jews and Judaism.

The Catholic Church and its official stance is totally different than a Catholic.

The point is, that is what her parents believe, the RCC has nothing to do with it. This is what she has to deal with. Trying to make them see the light about Jews and then about her spiritual path is taking on a big task.

The only good advise I see here is that to gently tell them that Jesus is a Jew. Also you can look up the various prophecies where G-d promises his faithfulness to them.

See this is where the writings of so-and-so produce this kind of mindset.

This is not the truth, but it is taught as such.

The Jewish branches were not 'broken off' .


For thou hast confirmed to thyself thy people Israel to be a people unto thee for ever: and thou, Lord, art become their God. 2 Samuel 7:24


For the Lord hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure. Psalm 135:4

Truthseeker, it's very sad to hear your parents are steeped in replacement theology, I can tell you not all Catholics are, most of the Catholics I know do not subscribe to that at all. I've recently left a Pentecostal fellowship partly due to their apathy toward Israel/replacement theology and blatant RT statements during services, so it's found everywhere.

I must again make it clear that many Catholics DO NOT believe in replacement theology - and yes, I know it started there but things DO and are changing. I have read encouraging statements by Pope Benedict regarding this too and many users on this forum seem to tar the entire RCC with one huge brush which is a big mistake.

If you have the strength, contact your parents a little at a time, each time sharing something you have learned about replacement theology and it's falseness starting with the obvious one someone else already said which is Jesus and the disciples were Jewish.

I also suggest leaving the ball in their court and here's why...

I have recently in the last three months begun communicating with my biological father after 11 years of silence which he broke around my birthday. Since he was the one to reach out I wrote back, but I wrote back saying that I am still a Christian and if wants to know me, he needs to respect it even if he doesn't believe it.

He lives abroad so I'm not expecting a reply immediately, but I'm hoping the news that my wife is pregnant will kick his bum into gear! If not, it is entirely his loss.

I don't know how old your parents are, but they've been misled by a very old falsehood and you should pray for them, in this way, you will be "Honouring your mother and father" and the rest is up to them.

The Psalms make it clear that God's covenant with Israel and Jacob was and is EVERLASTING (and other passages). Ask them if they think Everlasting means finite.