A Futile Effort

Uphill Battle · Aug 12, 2008

do you think that we spend far to much time engaged in a completely futile effort?

you may think I'm talking about debating online, but that isn't it.

I'm talking about knowing God's nature.

We know from scripture, that God's ways are infinitely higher than our ways, and his thoughts, infinitely higher than our thoughts. Do we waste much time trying to fathom the unfathomable?

Giver · Aug 12, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
do you think that we spend far to much time engaged in a completely futile effort?

you may think I'm talking about debating online, but that isn't it.

I'm talking about knowing God's nature.

We know from scripture, that God's ways are infinitely higher than our ways, and his thoughts, infinitely higher than our thoughts. Do we waste much time trying to fathom the unfathomable?

Let me share something that may be a big help to you. Jesus once told me audibly. He said to me: Bob! Quit trying to figure me out and just follow me.

Uphill Battle · Aug 12, 2008

ah... but then you'll have some who will argue how can you follow what you don't understand...

Giver · Aug 12, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
ah... but then you'll have some who will argue how can you follow what you don't understand...

(1 Corinthians 1:19-21) As scripture says: I shall destroy the wisdom of the wise and bring to nothing all the learning of the learned. Where are the philosophers now? Where are the scribes? Where are any of our thinkers today? Do you see now how God has shown up the foolishness of human wisdom? If it was Gods wisdom that human wisdom should not know God, it was because God wanted to save those who have faith through the foolishness of the message that we preach.

(1 Corinthians 2:13-14) Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. An unspiritual person is one who does not accept anything of the Spirit of God he sees it all as nonsense; it is beyond his understanding because it can only be understood by means of the Spirit.

squint · Aug 12, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
do you think that we spend far to much time engaged in a completely futile effort?

you may think I'm talking about debating online, but that isn't it.

I'm talking about knowing God's nature.

We know from scripture, that God's ways are infinitely higher than our ways, and his thoughts, infinitely higher than our thoughts. Do we waste much time trying to fathom the unfathomable?

Not at all. It is in the contemplation of The Eternal One that our own minds and hearts find our eternal rest and peace.

Uphill Battle · Aug 12, 2008

perhaps there is a difference. Contemplation of what God has revealed is well and good, it's what he has deigned to show us of himself. I'm talking more about the continued pursuit of trying to "know" God, as in figure him out.

is it all too possible that we just want God to fit in a neat box so that we can label it and put it on display?

squint · Aug 12, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
perhaps there is a difference. Contemplation of what God has revealed is well and good, it's what he has deigned to show us of himself. I'm talking more about the continued pursuit of trying to "know" God, as in figure him out.

is it all too possible that we just want God to fit in a neat box so that we can label it and put it on display?

You are right of course. There is no freedom in that. We simply confront our own shortsightedness when that transpires.

chestertonrules · Aug 12, 2008

Giver said:
(1 Corinthians 1:19-21) As scripture says: I shall destroy the wisdom of the wise and bring to nothing all the learning of the learned. Where are the philosophers now? Where are the scribes? Where are any of our thinkers today? Do you see now how God has shown up the foolishness of human wisdom? If it was Gods wisdom that human wisdom should not know God, it was because God wanted to save those who have faith through the foolishness of the message that we preach.

(1 Corinthians 2:13-14) Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. An unspiritual person is one who does not accept anything of the Spirit of God he sees it all as nonsense; it is beyond his understanding because it can only be understood by means of the Spirit.

Very true, but also...

15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

PujolsNonRoidHomerHitter · Aug 12, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
do you think that we spend far to much time engaged in a completely futile effort?

you may think I'm talking about debating online, but that isn't it.

I'm talking about knowing God's nature.

We know from scripture, that God's ways are infinitely higher than our ways, and his thoughts, infinitely higher than our thoughts. Do we waste much time trying to fathom the unfathomable?

I don't think it's a waste of time . . . living in relationship with God is what we were destined to do. That only happens as we come to know Him. Will we know Him completely? Not in this life nor in the one to come. I get tickled at people who think all there is to know about God is revealed in the Bible.

Go Cards!

plmarquette · Aug 12, 2008

Dt 29.29 "the magical mystery tour"' .............."a need to know basis, and right now, you don't need to know"

Rick Otto · Aug 13, 2008

Most people are too lazy to:
Aim high, "dream the impossible dream', etc.
or to ignorant to realize:
"the unexamined life isn't worth living"
so I think it isn't necessarily a futile endeavor, but motive & method could affect how much time might be wasted in attempting.

itisdeliciouscake · Aug 13, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
perhaps there is a difference. Contemplation of what God has revealed is well and good, it's what he has deigned to show us of himself. I'm talking more about the continued pursuit of trying to "know" God, as in figure him out.

is it all too possible that we just want God to fit in a neat box so that we can label it and put it on display?

see that's the great thing about it all. We should pursue to know God's nature more and more. true knowledge of God leads to a sense of wonder.

one idea i've heard about what it means to 'be like a child' (and there's like million explanations for this verse, but this one i thot was cool)

'when you're a child you think your mom and dad can do anything, they can solve any problem, and they are always on your side, looking out for your best interests. But as you grow older you begin doubt whether they can actually do EVERYTHING, they sometimes don't always seem on your side, and sometimes they seem to ignore your best interests. Then when your even older you believe they are rarely competent, they're always against you, and it's always their own best interests they care about.'

That's why God wants us to be like a child, that sense of wonder, true understanding of God doesn't put him in this 'neat little box'. true pursuit of understanding God blows our minds, and reminds us what we're actually pursuing.

Lady Bug · Aug 13, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
do you think that we spend far to much time engaged in a completely futile effort?

you may think I'm talking about debating online, but that isn't it.

I'm talking about knowing God's nature.

We know from scripture, that God's ways are infinitely higher than our ways, and his thoughts, infinitely higher than our thoughts. Do we waste much time trying to fathom the unfathomable?

Nah - I don't think it's a waste of time - although you could spend your entire lifetime trying to find out how God works and you never will because our brains are equipped to know a finite number of things (it seems) and God knows absolutely everything (why does it not feel that way sometimes though)

On a lighter note - back in the days of the Prophets there was no internet or computer haha - so what could these people have done all day? It could get pretty boring! So they got to think about something and God was one of them lol.

ticker · Aug 14, 2008

A Futile Effort

...yes. But not a futile practice (we can participate in).

ticker · Aug 14, 2008

double

ticker · Aug 14, 2008

What the...???

Mary of Bethany · Aug 14, 2008

An Orthodox point of view:

from Fr. Stephen Freeman's blog "Glory to God for All Things":

God matters and what matters to God matters. I know that sounds very redundant, but I’m not sure how else I want to say it. There are many things that do not matter - because they do not matter to God. Knowing the difference between the two - what matters to God and what does not requires that we know God.

And this is theology - to know God. If I have a commitment in theology, it is to insist that we never forget that it is to know God. Many of the arguments (unending) and debates (interminable) are not about what we know, but about what we think.

Thinking is not bad, nor is it wrong, but thinking is not the same thing as theology. It is, of course, possible to think about theology, but this is not to be confused with theology itself.

Knowing God is not in itself an intellectual activity for God is not an idea, nor a thought. God may be known because He is person. Indeed, He is only made known to us as person (we do not know His essence). We cannot know God objectively - that is He is not the object of our knowledge. He is known as we know a person. This is always a free gift, given to us in love. Thus knowledge of God is always a revelation, always a matter of grace, never a matter of achievement or attainment.
It matters that we know God because knowledge of God is life itself. “This is eternal life,” Jesus said, “to know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.”

The Orthodox way of life is only about knowing God. Everything we do, whether it is prayer, communion, confession, forgiveness, fasting - all of it is about knowing God. If it is about something else, then it is delusion and a distraction from our life’s only purpose.

Knowing God is not a distraction from knowing other persons, nor is knowing other persons a distraction from knowing God. But, like God, knowing other persons is not the same thing as thinking about them, much less is it objectifying them.

Knowing others is so far from being a distraction from knowing God, that it is actually essential to knowing God. We cannot say we love God, whom we have not seen, and hate our brother whom we do see, St. John tells us. We only know God to the extent that we love our enemies (1 John 4:7-8).

And this matters.

Kvikklunsj · Aug 14, 2008

Here's a quote by Eugene Joly:

A mystery is not a wall against which you run your head, but an ocean into which you plunge. A mystery is not night, it is the sun, so brilliant that we cannot gaze at it, but so luminous that everything is illuminated by it.

Myqyl · Aug 14, 2008

I figured out a long time ago that a two year old had a better chances of truly understanding quantum physics than I have of understanding the Nature of God... 15 minutes of contemplative prayer on the Trinity should make that one clear.

I've decided to wait till Judgement Day and ask about it then...

A Futile Effort

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