• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

A fundamentalist interpretation of Genesis 1-11

shernren

you are not reading this.
Feb 17, 2005
8,463
515
38
Shah Alam, Selangor
Visit site
✟33,881.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
In Relationship
I must now say a few words on the scientific and historical aspects of these narratives. Science is invoked to prove that the narratives of creation in Genesis 1, the story of man's origin and fall in chapters 2 and 3, the account of patriarchal longevity in chapters 5 and 11, the story of the deluge, and other matters, must all be rejected because in patent contradiction to the facts of modern knowledge. I would ask you, however, to suspend judgment until we have looked at the relation in which these two things, science and the Bible, stand to each other. When science is said to contradict the Bible, I should like to ask first, What is meant by contradiction here? The Bible was never given us in order to anticipate or forestall the discoveries of modern twentieth century science. The Bible, as every sensible interpreter of Scripture has always held, takes the world as it is, not as it is seen through the eyes of twentieth century specialists, but as it lies spread out before the eyes of original men, and uses the popular every-day language appropriate to this standpoint. As Calvin in his commentary on Genesis 1 says: "Moses wrote in the popular style, which, without instruction, all ordinary persons endowed with common sense are able to understand. ... He does not call us up to heaven; he only proposes things that lie open before our eyes."

It does not follow that because the Bible. does not teach modern science, we are justified in saying that it contradicts it. What I see in these narratives of Genesis is that, so true is the standpoint of the author, so divine the illumination with which he is endowed, so unerring his insight into the order of nature, there is little in his description that even yet, with our advanced knowledge, we need to change. You say there is the "six days" and the question whether those days are meant to be measured by the twenty-four hours of the sun's revolution around the earth — I speak of these things popularly. It is difficult to see how they should be so measured when the sun that is to measure them is not introduced until the fourth day. Do not think that this larger reading of the days is a new speculation. You find Augustine in early times declaring that it is hard or altogether impossible to say of what fashion these days are, and Thomas Aquinas, in the middle ages, leaves the matter an open question. To my mind these narratives in Genesis stand out as a marvel, not for its discordance with science, but for its agreement with it.

- James Orr, "The Early Narratives of Genesis"
Who was this James Orr, and what was he writing for? Surely he was a god-hating liberal theistic evolutionist out to compromise the truth of the Bible, right?

It turns out that "The Early Narratives of Genesis" was published in Volume Six of The Fundamentals. That's right, James Orr was one of the "Fundamentalists", and he believed in what we today would call "progressive creationism".

So figurative accommodationist interpretations of Genesis 1-11 were never just for stuffy Alexandrian patriarchs falsely maligned with self-castration rumors. You can be a fundy and be a theistic evolutionist, too!
 

Verticordious

Newbie
Sep 4, 2010
896
42
Columbus, Ohio
✟23,768.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I guess I agree with he's saying. I always laugh when people try to argue along the lines of "if you don't believe what the Bible says then you're not a Christian" because what they really mean is "if you don't accept my interpretation of the Bible then you're not a Christian". The whole concept of Bible vs. Science is a false dilemma. There's only one God, and there only one truth. The same God who created the universe is the same God who inspired the writings of the Bible. There is never going to be a situation where the Bible says one thing, and science says the opposite, and both are true, and we have to choose which truth is true truth. Thus both are equally authoritative.

Which one trumps the other in a given situation simply depends on which one you are more confident that you are interpreting correctly. I see no reason to suggest that Genesis is overtly concerned with the physical origins of man, as it goes on to talk about man's relationship to women and man's relationship with God. Had Genesis gone on to talk about the physical structure of man in subsequent chapters, then I might be inclined to believe that God was intending to give us details about the physical origin of man in chapter 1, but since he did not I am inclined to believe that chapter 1 is meant to establish spiritual implications of God being the creator. Science, on the other hand, is very unwavering in it's declaration that the Earth is very old. Therefore when it comes to the physical origins of man science trumps the YEC interpretation of the Bible.

That being said, I don't believe in common decent. Just throwing that out there.
 
Upvote 0

shernren

you are not reading this.
Feb 17, 2005
8,463
515
38
Shah Alam, Selangor
Visit site
✟33,881.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
In Relationship
Firstly, he is speaking specifically of Genesis 1-11, which doesn't run to hundreds of pages in any Bible I know.

Secondly, he is not saying they are wrong. The quote you have chosen, "must all be rejected ... ", is where he is describing the position of the Modernists, not his own: you will note that he immediately continues "I would ask you, however, to suspend judgment until ... " which shows that he is quoting a viewpoint which he disagrees with, and which he is about to present evidence and argument against.

He says of Genesis 1 for example that "so true is the standpoint of the author, so divine the illumination with which he is endowed, so unerring his insight into the order of nature, there is little in his description that even yet, with our advanced knowledge, we need to change." He acknowledges that the description is popular, but that we should not draw the conclusion that it is erroneous or useless - such as when we say that the Earth is spherical, when in reality it is slightly prolate due to its rotation.

Thirdly, The Fundamentals were a set of essays after which fundamentalism was named. If they are not fundamentalist, then what on earth is?
 
Upvote 0

Greg1234

In the beginning was El
May 14, 2010
3,745
38
✟19,292.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Those events are repeated as historical fact throughout other parts of the Old Testament, but even more so in the New Testament. The apostles, and Jesus thought they were actually literal historic events, not allegory. How they happened is open for interpetation, but the writers of the New Testament thought it was all factual history.



Christian fundamentalists believe in Biblical literalism. The guy you quoted clearly didn't. A literal reading of scripture is basically the main basis of Christian fundamentalism. There are a lot of christians on this forum who say there are ''two'' books - the Bible and secondly the physical world itself and they stress more on the latter (and so they believe in Darwin's theory of evolution, or other theories not compatible with strict Biblical literalism).

It's a secondary aspect delving into the philosophy.

Intelligent design proponents have refuted Darwinism and they are explaining the remaining adherence as a conviction to a philosophically charged ideology (naturalism).

Darwinists think they've refuted Creationism and they are explaining the adherence with an appeal to supernatural philosophy (namely the literal).

What's going on here is a materialistic attempt to embed their philosophy and we've left science in the dust a long time ago. The only position which can legitimately highlight a philosophical adherence is the one with the data while the other's appeals actually aid their opposition.

No one is going to watch the data, see creationism, and denounce their position because materialists say that texts don't mean what we actually see. At best it will strengthen the Creationist's position and using the interpretation card to support Darwinism (which is at variance with reality), damages interpretative analysis in the short term and the long term.
 
Upvote 0