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A Fundamental Philosophical Error within Theories of Evolution.

dmmesdale

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That is called explaing away actual evidence. i mean, if they were depicting what they actually saw then your whole evo theory wounld be falsified. In the trash where it belongs. Atheists are skeptics, what a joke! It is simply coincidence their mythical beasts look so much like the real thing!
 
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Jimmy D

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TagliatelliMonster

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The context of your argument was disease, and now you are switching up.

Nope.
Here's what I said:
You mean the one that ignores that in the past 200 years, we have trippled general life expectancy while also bringing infant mortality to an all-time low?

I by no means limited the cause of the trippling of life expectancy and lowering infant mortality it to just "disease" or "medicine".

Because I understand that it's about much more then that. It's about advances in ALL area's.
It's even about silly things like understanding that it's a good idea to not keep fecies around in open area's or in the proximity of food, to wash ones hands after taking a dump. It's about technological progress which yields better crops, easier transport, central heat, powered homes, ease of communication, better clothing, etc etc etc.

There is no "single" thing you can point to as "THE FACTOR" in higher survivability of humans the past couple centuries as opposed to the millenia before that. Except if you bundle them all and just call it "progress".

All those other things were already well on their way in society when medical science started to really make big jumps.



It is, most of all, a complete misrepresentation.
First, it assumes quite ridiculous things, like the flood.
Second, it assumes that you can take a population size X millenia ago, compare it to the size today and then pretend as if you can conclude from those 2 numbers a "steady growth rate".

That is the kind of nonsense that is completely out of touch with reality.


To show how unreasonable it is to assume humans have been around for 200 K years.

The only unreasonable thing here, is the ridiculous conclusion drawn from the extremely false premises and assumptions.


The real problem is an undying commitment to myths that ignore actual evidence.

Says the guy who just made an argument that used as a premise that the flood actually happened and that there were only 8 humans in existance a couple thousand years ago.

Good grief.....

Also ignoring arguments.

Arguments that use demonstrably false premises only deserve being ignored.


Why is it silly?

Because it is not in line with the evidence.

Darwin assumed change in his present meant change in the deep past,

For good reason. An he turned out to be smack in the face correct.

so again, why can't we use current population trends to extrapolate back to deep time?

Because population growth is determined by external factors, like availability of food and other environmental things.

Whereas reproduction with variation is simply the mechanism of reproduction and it is not dependend on any environmental factors. It's just how reproduction works.


By the by i am still waiting for your positive case and empirical evidence for humans being here for 200 K years since it does not jibe with current population trends.

I linked you a paper.
I can also link you a bunch of homo sapiens fossils.

But most importantly: your claim that it "does not jib with current population trends" is demonstrable nonsense.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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And "if hindu's are correct, then your whole christian belief system goes into the trash where it belongs".

I can play the "what if?" game too, you know...
 
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driewerf

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Not, that's callled weighing the evidence. And it turns out to be feather light.
There is no reason the believe that the ancient cultures saw a Minotaur, a centaur, a basilisk, a gorgon, and all the other magnificent beasts they depicted. So why should I believe that the picturing of what looks vaguely a dinosaur has based on more than fantasy alone?
 
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Subduction Zone

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But they really don't. An educated eye can see that most of those pictures are merely distortions of existing creatures or chimeras. None of them are actual drawings of dinosaurs.
 
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dmmesdale

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Not, that's callled weighing the evidence.
Against what?
And it turns out to be feather light.
Don't believe your own eyes?
There is no reason the believe that the ancient cultures saw a Minotaur, a centaur, a basilisk, a gorgon, and all the other magnificent beasts they depicted.
Why not? They made depictions of them.
So why should I believe that the picturing of what looks vaguely a dinosaur has based on more than fantasy alone?
Its called actual evidence and yours is called denial and excuse making.
 
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dmmesdale

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But they really don't. An educated eye can see that most of those pictures are merely distortions of existing creatures or chimeras. None of them are actual drawings of dinosaurs.
Educated eye they are artist renditions not meant to be exact. More excuse making. Educated eye somehow now equals blind eye.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Educated eye they are artist renditions not meant to be exact. More excuse making. Educated eye somehow now equals blind eye.


Hardly. Those Mesoptomanian figures that you found are though to be stylized lions. All you looked at was the long neck. You ignored the body and head and even tail:

File:Cylinder seal lions Louvre MNB1167.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

You are seeing patterns that are just not there. Have you heard of paredolia?

Perhaps you should learn what is and what is not evidence. A subject that creationists hate almost as much as science. In a scientific debate we should be using scientific evidence, don't you agree?

Pareidolia - Wikipedia
 
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Astrophile

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Since the Flood, after which the world population was eight, the world population has doubled every 155 years, or grown at an average of 0.45% per year.

If the flood occurred in 2345 BC, the total population of the world was 3355½ in 1000 BC, and about 300,000 at the time of Jesus.
 
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Gene2memE

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Good grief, how ignorant was the person that wrote this argument? It's like they possess a superpower, which allows them to selectively ignore most of world history.

I love the claim that world population doubled every 155 or 156 years. If you use this figure and the current global population 7.516 billion as a base line, and then work backwards, you get a global population of ~915,500 in 2 AD.

2 AD is a nice convenient date - as it just happens the year of a major census conducted by the Chinese Han Dynasty. That census gives a figure of 57.67 million people, across 12.7 million households, in the Han Kingdom. So, either the official Han census is lying, or Don Batten of creation.com is wrong.

If you're suspicious of the Han Chinese' census data and figures, how about the Romans?

The Augustinian census of 14 AD gives the Roman Empire population of just over 4.9 million adult males citizens eligible to vote. If you include women, children under 15, slaves, freedmen and non-citizens living in the boundaries of the Empire (less than 1 in 20 males in the Roman colonies were citizens), this translate into a total population of somewhere around 35 million at the low end and 45 million at the upper end.

Then there's the tens of millions that lived in the other major empires that existed at the time (Parthian, Kush, Sarmatian, Mayan, Nazca, Satavahana). And also the thousands of major tribal groups (Germanic, Celtic, Turkic, Slavic, Saami, Malay, Thai, Indian ect, ect) that existed.

Yet somehow, Dr Batten expects his readers to believe that the global population around this time was around a million.

Yeesh!
 
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Allandavid

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Here's my evolutionary prediction for giraffes...

They will remain ungulates, mammals, vertebrates, animals and eukaryotes....

Good enough?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Why not? They made depictions of them.

So by that logic, since we've made depictions of walking chickens that talk with a Southern accent, then Foghorn Leghorn must exist.
 
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Jimmy D

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Against what?

An engraving of something that looks a bit dinosaurish, found amongst carvings of many mythical beasts against the accumulated scientific knowledge (geology, biology, paleontology, archaelogy etc) of the last hundred years or so.

You forgot to tell us how, if we miraculously discovered such beasts were alive and well in Mesopotamia at that time, it would falsify evolution.

I blame sites like AIG for this sort of nonsense, in the cold light of day such claims are so obviously wrong it's laughable. The very existence of these sites make such ideas seem normal....
 
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lesliedellow

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they are artist renditions not meant to be exact.

You said it. So to my eyes they could either be depictions of giraffes, or elephants with unbelievably long trunks.
 
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dmmesdale

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Good grief, how ignorant was the person that wrote this argument? It's like they possess a superpower, which allows them to selectively ignore most of world history.
What world history? Most is made up if humans have been around for 200 K years. You have perhaps 190 K years of undocumented historical silence.

I love the claim that world population doubled every 155 or 156 years.
Overall, not constant.
If you use this figure and the current global population 7.516 billion as a base line, and then work backwards, you get a global population of ~915,500 in 2 AD.
Even if you are right it would assume constant, not overall. He references 300 mil at the time of Christ! Did you see that? There is nothing wrong with his math and you need to redo yours. The population was 6 bil around 1999-2000. Divide that number by 2 for approx 30-31 times and you are down to the approx number for Noah. 6 people. That works out to a overall doubling every 150 yrs which is growth at .46% assuming 4500 yrs ago. Batton is right in the ballpark for two different groups.

The article lists the population at around 300 mil at the time of Christ resurrection. ''If there were 300 million people in the world at the time of Christ’s Resurrection,2'' His footnote is to the Encyclopedia Britannica. You ignored that.

He references an overall growth at around .46 and the numbers work out and now you produce empirical evidence based on anything from the present to justify a population of 7.5+ bil people given humans have been around 200 K years with a 10 K seed population. You can quibble about the numbers during the 1st century but you cannot about the math. From 1600 to 2020 you have an expontential doubling 4 times from 500 mil to 8 bil. You cannot extrapolate them numbers back 200 K years. You get far better results 4500 years.
 
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Subduction Zone

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So he changes the rate as needed but claims an "average rate". You really can't do both. If the rates change that much then his "average rate" claim is worthless.

By the way, we do have records that go back past 200,000 years. We just do not have written records.
 
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