A few questions.

[Greter]

Hello there my spirit-filled friends,
I have been looking around for a church recently and generally have been ruling out any sort of charismatic movement but honestly after reading around here for a few days it seems that most charismatics have genuine experiences (that sound absolutely amazing!) which is alot different to the typical things I have heard about and seen on videos.

So I have a few questions.

I know that the Bible mentions that tongues etc will cease but does the Bible tell us when? I am sorry if this question is asked alot but I did a forum search and found nothing.

I had heard that the meaning of "tongues" was actually the gift of foreign language and not any sort of divine angel derived language, is there anything in the Bible to discredit that?

I've not looked at this subject indepth so I am sorry if this comes across as lazy, demanding parts of the Bible to be given to me

 

[ByTheSpirit]

The Bible in 1 Cor 13 teaches that tongues prophecy, and knowledge will end when the perfect comes. Some think that means the complete canon of scripture, completed when Revelation was penned. I think its more realistic that "the perfect" is refering to the coming age. Paul says the perfect is when we will have perfect knowledge, seeing face to face, not in a glass dimly. John says in 1 John 3:2 that when Jesus returns we will see Him as He is and will be made like Him at that point. I think these scriptures are linked in message.

So I believe that tongues, prophecies, and knowledge will continue until the day the Lord comes. Good to see you here in our forum. God bless

 

[Biblicist]

I know that the Bible mentions that tongues etc will cease but does the Bible tell us when? I am sorry if this question is asked alot but I did a forum search and found nothing.

Even though many traditionalists tended to hold to this now dated viewpoint, by about the mid 80’s a number of fine academics such as D.A. Carson had essentially dismounted this opinion from its once lofty heights.

When you read the more serious and respected commentaries, by both Full Gospel commentators and by those who acknowledge that they are still in the Evangelical camp; even the Evangelical commentators will (in most part) acknowledge that the idea that the Holy Spirit stopped functioning through the believers in the 9 Manifestations of the Spirit (1 Co 12:7-11) sometime after the death of the last Apostle, that this viewpoint cannot be substantiated from within the Scriptures. Most diehard cesssationists tend to rely on a more philosophical approach but this certainly displays a sense of desperation on their part.

I had heard that the meaning of "tongues" was actually the gift of foreign language and not any sort of divine angel derived language, is there anything in the Bible to discredit that?

Even though we find on the Day of Pentecost that the Spirit enable the believers to speak in numerous known human languages, this speech was still directed toward the Father and the nearby Jews could not make any sense out of the whole event. If Peter had not given his evangelistic message then undoubtedly the Jews would have probably all left the area in total bewilderment. Paul explains in 1 Cor 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. In verse 5 he states that the only way that a word given in a tongue can benefit anyone is when there is someone present who could provide a translation (under inspiration of the Spirit) of what the Spirit was saying through the believer to the Father.

If we could use tongues to speak to an unreached people group, or even to those unsaved visitors who enter our church meetings, then undoubtedly Paul would have spent some time explaining this in his writings – instead, we find that Paul says in verse 2 that “no one understands” what is being said in the Spirit.

 

[Yahu]

I know that the Bible mentions that tongues etc will cease but does the Bible tell us when? I am sorry if this question is asked alot but I did a forum search and found nothing.

They will end when there is no more need of them. 'When that which is perfect has come' and when we KNOW as we are KNOWN.

The cessationalist twist this passage to mean when the canon, the bible, came we didn't need tongues any longer when in actuality it is talking about when the physical kingdom with Yeshua ruling on the earth has come during the millennial kingdom. That is when we will have that level of knowledge.

Tongues is just a tool that still has its uses. There are diverse kinds of tongues. One form is as your prayer language in your prayer closet to allow the Holy Spirit to pray through you without your own mind screwing it up. That form of it certainly has uses today. It also trains you to hear the Holy Spirit within you. His sheep know His voice. Tongues train you to hear that voice.

 

[Scottmcc1]

There is one example that I would like to share.

The apostle John was the last to die. So it is thought that when he died the use of the Holy Spirit in the gifts of the spirit such as tongues and healing ended.

Consider John at his death bed. There is a line of people out the door and down the block as far as the eye can see. Why are they there?

It is because the ability to heal the body will end with John's death. So all these people have come for this is their last hope. Each one comes and tell's the apostle John of his need for healing. And John puts his hand of them and tells them they are healed by the power of the name of Jesus. Then the next comes for healing. And again the apostle comes and says something similar.

One of John's assistants goes out along the crowd of people waiting and tells them to be calm, they will get their turn. But then John dies and goes to glory while many people with sick children are disappointed for missing their chance for healing.

I think this changing of the way God deals with people does not make any sense and is not explained in Scripture. Also there is not writing about this event. If there was an event of this sort much would have been written about it.

Why would God give the apostles more power to do the work of the ministry then the rest of us? Didn't God know the dark ages were coming and people needed His power more than ever?

Why would Paul ask us to follow his example in 1 Cor 11:1 if we aren't given the same things that Paul was given?

Why would Peter say in 2 Peter 1:1 that we have the same faith as they had? If our ability to work with the Holy Spirit has changed. Sure we have the same faith for Salvation but not to minister to others.

I have found many reject tongues not for what the Bible says but the influence of the people they are around. Matthew says that if you ask God for some food he will not give you a snake. We can trust God that if we are looking to Him He will give to us the things that are for us and are good for us, just as our earthly fathers would give to their children.

 

[Biblicist]

I have found many reject tongues not for what the Bible says but the influence of the people they are around. Matthew says that if you ask God for some food he will not give you a snake. We can trust God that if we are looking to Him He will give to us the things that are for us and are good for us, just as our earthly fathers would give to their children.

Even though there is certainly some truth to this (sadly), I think that for many church goers, even though they are more than happy to acknowledge Jesus, that this tacit recognition may at times only go as far as he is a “good man” who teachings should be followed. When it comes to the Manifestations of the Spirit and particularly with that of tongues, this is simply too confronting for many which is why some seem to be resisting Him at every turn.