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Only in a very technical sense.Ok, so we agree, the Bible as a whole, the Bible we have today was not officially compiled until the late fourth century, right? Meaning, the first century Christians did not have the Bible that we have today, right?
That Being?
So, you are not a sola scripturist, that being a believer in the bible alone is sufficient as a sole rule of faith? Interesting, if you do not rely on the bible alone, what other authority do you rely on?
The church's seal of approval applied only within the Roman Empire. Christianity had over the 300 years spread a lot further and was not under their State religion jurisdiction. That took many more centuries of manoeuvring and outright warfare to bring many under one roof of an institution that had outgrown and outlived the Roman Empire. Think of it as today's Corporatism movement.Almost everything that was gathered together and given the church's seal of approval in the fourth century had, by that time, long since been acknowledged by the churches as being the inspired word of God.
No, it hadn't spread much further. And being "under the State religion" or not under the State religion wouldn't have anything to do with it.The church's seal of approval on within the Roman Empire. Christianity had over the 300 years spread a lot further and was not under their State religion jurisdiction.
That's right, but it's called the era of the Undivided Church because the other major divisions of the Church hadn't "come into existence" at that time
Well I guess I could ask how you know that it wasn't only what was later included? I'm sure they were not reading anything that wasn't from an actual apostle. For example, they were not reading the gnostic writings. I'm sure they read from the Torah also. Paul uses it extensively in his writings. Jesus himself used it to explain how it spoke of him. I'm not really sure what point you are trying to get to.Okay, since the official Canon of the Bible was not ratified until the late forth century, would you agree some of the "written words of the apostles" you speak of, that they heard could have been some of the written words that were excluded from the official Canon of the Bible that was agreed upon in the late forth century, right? If you do not agree, how do you know?
I rely on the Holy Spirits authority. Not any particular church affiliation. There's the true church, that is, true believers of every stripe, and there's tares in every denomination also.So, you are not a sola scripturist, that being a believer in the bible alone is sufficient as a sole rule of faith? Interesting, if you do not rely on the bible alone, what other authority do you rely on?
I doubt the complaint is over the teachings of Jesus but more a case of asking why some refuse to bow to the authourity of a man made religious institution in the same way we do with secular governments.Why do you question mine?
It's just a question I always have when I see protestents separated from the fray.I doubt the complaint is over the teachings of Jesus but more a case of asking why some refuse to bow to the authourity of a man made religious institution in the same way we do with secular governments.
Complete and utter nonsense. There is no creed that all Protestants share and recite every SundayWell, hundreds of millions of them for sure, but how many exactly I couldn't say offhand
What "collection of men" decided which writings "made it" and which were "left" out? Try providing some facts instead of just childish guesses.As I said a collection of men with differing motives, some to keep the words of Jesus pure, some seeking literature that would fit in with the new kingdom they were building. A likely reason why epistles of Paul on church building made it in while any writings he may have most likely made on the Gospel of the Kingdom (being his primary mission) which he too taught and which would contradict religious empire building, might have been left out.
That tells me nothing. What "whole Church"? Who? When? Where? Provide some facts instead of vacuous guesses.The principle you are referring to held that the whole church was the responsible party you're asking about.
The collection of men building their gentile empire using God as their justification to do so, who apart from the authority of the Emperor, were self proclaimed authourity as hundreds of years of infighting and incorporation lead them to the top of the heap. That's how governments and corporations work. It was supposed to be a people's church but just like governments today the people had no say.. Who decided that content and what authority did they have to make those decisions?
You are clueless. It's a waste of time trying to have a rational conversation with you. You have nothing intelligent to say and your posts are vacuous.The collection of men building their gentile empire using God as their justification to do so, who apart from the authority of the Emperor, were self proclaimed authourity as hundreds of years of infighting and incorporation lead them to the top of the heap. That's how governments and corporations work. It was supposed to be a people's church but just like governments today the people had no say.
You entitled to see it the way you want. But I repeat, man's kingdoms are not of God.You are clueless. It's a waste of time trying to have an rational conversation with you. You have nothing intelligent to say and your posts are completely vacuous.
Your fantasy about the Church being an unstructured, leaderless "movement" is patently contradicted by both Scripture and history. .The collection of men building their gentile empire using God as their justification to do so, who apart from the authority of the Emperor, were self proclaimed authourity as hundreds of years of infighting and incorporation lead them to the top of the heap. That's how governments and corporations work. It was supposed to be a people's church but just like governments today the people had no say.
Yes, but Ephesians 1:21-22 says the Church is the "body" and "fullness" of Christ. Is your church the "fullness" of Christ?"Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life ... This was pretty much the answer to that.
This is an interesting inversion of what the Bible actually says. 1Tim 3:15 says the CHURCH is the "pillar and foundation of the truth" and Eph 4:11-16 says the CHURCH is our guide:The bible, the words of Jesus, is the pillar of our truth and faith. It's how we live and how we're guided.
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