A discussion on the morality of polygamy

Motus · Aug 22, 2004

You don't necessarially have to marry someone to get the benefits of a marriage. The saying "Why buy the cow when the milk is free" comes to mind. To most people, it's just a way to possess or control someone else, which would be the reason more than one partner would be unacceptable to them.

If we were supposed to have more than one wife, we would have more than one member. Then again, medical breakthroughs are made all the time...

stray bullet · Aug 22, 2004

Motus said:
You don't necessarially have to marry someone to get the benefits of a marriage. The saying "Why buy the cow when the milk is free" comes to mind. To most people, it's just a way to possess or control someone else, which would be the reason more than one partner would be unacceptable to them.

Well, the issue isn't marriage exactly, but relationships that involve more than two people. If one doesn't believe in marriage, they can discuss the issue from a relationship standpoint.

If we were supposed to have more than one wife, we would have more than one member. Then again, medical breakthroughs are made all the time...

Uh... people whose spouses have died can end up with more than one wife. You don't need to be intimate with both of them at the same time.

stray bullet · Aug 22, 2004

Rae said:
Because of course we aren't talking about letting children get married to lecherous old people, but consenting adults. Right?

I figured adult was assumed, because I don't believe children can give the same level of consent as adult. But you are right, this is about consenting adults.

rahma · Aug 22, 2004

I come from a religious tradition that allows polygany and know a few polyganious families. Most are a disaster, because the man is selfish and does not take his first wife's feeling into account before he takes a second wife. There is one I know that works well because all the partners communicate and are open and honest.

Polygany has several benefits when done for the right reasons. There are 2 basic reasons for polygany that I have seen: because the man is not satisfied with his current wife and takes another, or to take in a woman who is being lost in the system, a divorcee, widow, who is sick or poor.

Marriages for the first reason almost always implode, because the first wife detests the second wife and feels abandoned.

Marriages for the second reason have more of a chance of working. It serves as a grassroots social welfare network, and allows a man who has enough resources to use them to support those in need.

I was almost in a polyganous marriage. My husband's best friend died at age 27, leaving behind his wife. My husband and I discussed it, but decided against it, taking into account our strained finance and my tendancy to be a jealous woman. Also, Islamically, a man with multiple spouses is obligated to treat them as equally as humanly possible, or face God's wrath. My husband always says he can never love someone as much as he loves me, so he'd rather not be punished for it

goodoldboy · Aug 22, 2004

rahma said:
I come from a religious tradition that allows polygany and know a few polyganious families. Most are a disaster, because the man is selfish and does not take his first wife's feeling into account before he takes a second wife. There is one I know that works well because all the partners communicate and are open and honest.

Polygany has several benefits when done for the right reasons. There are 2 basic reasons for polygany that I have seen: because the man is not satisfied with his current wife and takes another, or to take in a woman who is being lost in the system, a divorcee, widow, who is sick or poor.

Marriages for the first reason almost always implode, because the first wife detests the second wife and feels abandoned.

Marriages for the second reason have more of a chance of working. It serves as a grassroots social welfare network, and allows a man who has enough resources to use them to support those in need.

Oh, well now look what you did, you spoiled my life's plan. I would want to be polygynous for the first of your basic reasons, not the second.

Evee · Aug 22, 2004

goodoldboy said:
Here is what I am afraid of: going to bed with the same woman day after day for years. Eventually, perhaps not after long, she gets fat. She gets biatchy. She gets old. All you guys who are married know what I am talking about.

That is enough to persuade me to remain single for the rest of my life. But then I am missing out on children. Children need at least two parents. If I never get married, I'll never have a Xerox copy of myself to successfully raise and make up for all my personal shortcomings.

Polygamy solves both problems. After my first wife gets fat/old/biatchy/whatever, I can stop hitting her and start hitting a sweet young one instead. Maybe my wives would even keep themselves desirable to compete for my attention.

I could do this only when I am rich. If I ever get rich, that is what I plan to do.

That is a funny post it really did make me smile...However you are growing one day older every day just as she is.
You probably will build a shed over your tools your hair may become thin and gray..... what you have left.
You probably become grouchy more than she ever could.
Do you want to hear more..lol

stray bullet · Aug 22, 2004

Rahma- I'm curious, do polygamous marriages made in the Middle-East transfer over to western nations? If your husband married another woman in Egypt, would the US have to recognize it? Any clue?

Freedom From Ignorance · Aug 22, 2004

Dude, you guys need to read the wheel of time series by Robert Jordan. The culture of people called the Aiel have a pretty good polygamy honor and law system lol.

but seriously, if all the adults are consenting and ready to face a family like that I see nothing wrong with it. I can see where it would pose problems for the people involved but that should be of no concern to anyone else. I wouldn't mind having wives for the obvious reasons, but then again I see many other reasons why twice as much may not be so good...

goodoldboy · Aug 22, 2004

stray bullet said:
Rahma- I'm curious, do polygamous marriages made in the Middle-East transfer over to western nations? If your husband married another woman in Egypt, would the US have to recognize it? Any clue?

Good thinking, stray bullet.

seebs · Aug 22, 2004

I think the problem here is that polygamy is an institution which is prone to abuse... So, even if it's not "inherently wrong", it tends to end up being abused. I'm not sure why.

My wife's first husband and I overlapped by something over a year, and we thought it worked out pretty well; we ended up having problems, but I think they were "too young to be married" problems more than they had anything to do with polygamy per se.

I don't have moral objections to polygamy in the abstract. Many specific instances appear to be, as noted, very strongly rooted in problematic notions of gender relations, or abusive, or whatever... But I have met people who were in polygamous relationships that struck me as probably a good idea and a reasonable response to their life circumstances.

Would I do it again? Maybe. I would need clear understanding of what all of the parties involved were getting from the relationship, and why this seemed to be their best choice... But I'm not gonna rule out the possibility that it would be the best choice for some sets of people.

One thing that I think is important to curtail possible abuses is that all the parties to a marriage should have veto power over any proposed changes. It's clearly immoral for a man to be able to tell his wife "I don't care what you think, I'm sleeping with this other woman too".

I think a lot of people, when they think about polygamy, think about some horny guy trying to get more and prettier women to sleep with. I would agree that this strikes me as immoral, and to be avoided.

Hmm. I will say... Just about every polygamous relationship I know of includes at least one person who is probably at least marginally mentally ill. It may be a coping mechanism... But if so, I have no problem with it. We build wheelchair ramps; accomodating people with special needs is a social good, and I endorse it. I might welcome help in dealing with a bipolar spouse.

seebs · Aug 22, 2004

Western Deity said:
Would it be very practical? I doubt it. Besides, you'd need a really big bed .

You can sleep three people in a king-size bed, as long as they're reasonably friendly. Heck, you could probably fit three in a queen, if they're very friendly.

Er, I should clarify. I learned this on a road trip, where we had three or four people in a king size bed in nearly every hotel we stayed in, because we didn't have the money for multiple rooms. No sex; I mean, even if we were into that, who's got the energy after a 14-hour drive?

seebs · Aug 22, 2004

stray bullet said:
I figured adult was assumed, because I don't believe children can give the same level of consent as adult. But you are right, this is about consenting adults.

That presumption seems important. I think a lot of the abuses go away when you take away the cultural norm of under-educated women.

Rahma's point is well taken; one of the advantages, for women, of a polygynous culture is that they have a better chance of getting at least some access to a good man.

rahma · Aug 22, 2004

stray bullet said:
Rahma- I'm curious, do polygamous marriages made in the Middle-East transfer over to western nations? If your husband married another woman in Egypt, would the US have to recognize it? Any clue?

Nope, they don't, at least not in the US. If we had done the polyganous marriage, we would have to live in Egypt. I know a few (scummy type) men who had wives back home and have married american women as well. If the government finds out, then the man and woman get in trouble for marriage fraud or something.

This has recently been a big issue in the Midwest, where the last wave of Hmong refugees from Thai camps have recently arrived. Polygany is a part of the Hmong culture, and men had to choose which wife they wanted to be married to in the US. All the others were dropped.

seebs · Aug 22, 2004

This strikes me as deeply offensive, in many ways. This is another argument about separating church and state concepts of marriage... I don't like the idea that people who have exchanged vows should be told they must break some of them to live here.

LibertyChic · Aug 22, 2004

Annabel Lee said:
Keep in mind the definiton of polygamy.

polygamy... marriage in which a spouse of either sex may have more than one mate at the same time

polyandry...the state or practice of having more than one husband or male mate at one time

polygyny....the state or practice of having more than one wife or female mate at a time

What culture accepts a woman having more than one husband? Anyone? I've never heard of polygamy being defined in any other way than a man having multiple wives.

stray bullet · Aug 22, 2004

LibertyChic said:
What culture accepts a woman having more than one husband? Anyone? I've never heard of polygamy being defined in any other way than a man having multiple wives.

It is done in Tibet. All the males in the family marry one woman, which keeps the property from being divided up.

LibertyChic · Aug 22, 2004

stray bullet said:
It is done in Tibet. All the males in the family marry one woman, which keeps the property from being divided up.

Interesting. Does that make the woman the "head of the household?"

seebs · Aug 22, 2004

LibertyChic said:
What culture accepts a woman having more than one husband? Anyone? I've never heard of polygamy being defined in any other way than a man having multiple wives.

It happens occasionally in the US. It's not entirely culturally accepted, but it happens.

stray bullet · Aug 22, 2004

seebs said:
One thing that I think is important to curtail possible abuses is that all the parties to a marriage should have veto power over any proposed changes. It's clearly immoral for a man to be able to tell his wife "I don't care what you think, I'm sleeping with this other woman too".

I think a lot of people, when they think about polygamy, think about some horny guy trying to get more and prettier women to sleep with. I would agree that this strikes me as immoral, and to be avoided.

Hmm. I will say... Just about every polygamous relationship I know of includes at least one person who is probably at least marginally mentally ill. It may be a coping mechanism... But if so, I have no problem with it. We build wheelchair ramps; accomodating people with special needs is a social good, and I endorse it. I might welcome help in dealing with a bipolar spouse.

If it is simply about sex, I can totally understand anyone being against it. If it is about three people who all get along trying to make something work, that is something I can't see anything wrong with from a secular viewpoint.

stray bullet · Aug 22, 2004

goodoldboy said:
Good thinking, stray bullet.

Well, I wasn't going to put it into use

The two wives things might not be fun from the sexual perspective after their cycles sync up.
Men, however, are able to go anytime...

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