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A conversation about unity.

The Liturgist

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That said I don’t think Christians who believe in the real presence should partake of the Eucharist in churches that deny it - the closest I would be prepared to get is in the case of churches like the Anglicans that lean towards a believe in the Real Presence without in most cases dogmatizing it.

Of course some Anglicans do dogmatize the Real Presence, for example Continuing Anglo Catholics and High Church Anglicans like the Anglican Province of Christ The King Sovereign Priest in the Western US. Those provinces are basically Old Catholics but with an Anglican liturgical patrimony. For this reason some of them have close relations with some conservative Lutheran denominations.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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You're not actually listening closely to anything I say and then you're feeding your misinterpretation into your report about what it is you "THINK" I've said. Just know that I don't accept your terminology as an accurate description of my position on Christian Theology.

Anyway, it's your thread. Enjoy it, bro!
 
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2PhiloVoid

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You're missing my point too, mainly because you think my point is the same as any other person's here. You probably also think that I think I'm Protestant. I never said I was or that I think any Protestant denomination is the "right way." The truth is, I'm a philosopher and I think that when Critical and Hermeneutical scrutiny are applied, inconsistencies and conflated claims can be found in every denomination out there.

Anyway, don't worry-------I shan't be showing up at your church demanding participation in the Eucharist. (As if I would have simply shown up....)

Moreover, I don't care what Martin Luther said other than as a part of a diachronic study. And your constant text walls aren't going to educate me any more than the 500 volumes of theology and history do that I already have.
 
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ARBITER01

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Everything that needed to be said has been already said. In short, it's a validation of the Reformation, and further evidence that we, as Protestants, need to keep believing GOD's words, not man's.

To be honest, I'm not sure why such a thread was made. The very people crying about unity don't actually want it without it being on their terms. It's a joke.
 
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Carl Emerson

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It has been a cause for some to go into schism for many many centuries. Why would it be otherwise now?

So much for the hope of unity...

When two or three are gathered in My Name, He is there.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Because they have no Eucharist, no real presence, that is why they could care less who attends.
 

2PhiloVoid

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Because they have no Eucharist, no real presence, that is why they could care less who attends.

And what are you saying by that comment? That they also don't have the Holy Spirit among them?
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Sidebar... LCMS is more stuck on "natural Science than LCC; but neither do we or they see this as a stumbling block to fellowship, since, as you know, we are in full fellowship with each other. We view this as Adiaphora.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Please, don't put words in my mouth.

I didn't put words in your mouth. I simply asked two qualified questions as any person can do.

All you'd have to say is, "no, I do think they have the Holy Spirit too," and keep it copacetic and affirmed with "brotherly fellowship."
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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You will need to tell me what you allege is misrepresenting something you've said, as far as I know I didn't represent anything in my post as a quote from you or as a summary of your stated positions.
 

Strong in Him

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I have, even though I usually have you ignored. It speaks to an astounding lack of even basic familiarity with the traditional Christian (and, I would add more specifically, the traditional Methodist) understanding of communion.
In what way?
And I am a UK Methodist, by the way, which may be different from the UMC.
Being a guest at another church entitles you to their sacraments no more than being a guest at a wedding entitles you to try on the rings.
Strange, I always thought it was the Lord's table with the Lord as the host.
If I'd realised the taking communion in a Catholic church meant receiving "their" sacraments and, maybe implicitly, signing up to "their" beliefs, I would have had no complaints about not receiving it.
I'll add that I find the idea of a "pulpit swap" frankly incomprehensible.
For the most part it worked well, although they did stop doing it after a few years.
All it means is that a preacher from one tradition goes to another church and preaches there.
But then again, that kind of ecumenist nonsense is part of why I didn't become Roman Catholic when I left Methodism.
If you find ecumenism - trying to work closer together with other Christians to foster understanding and unity - to be nonsense, there's nothing I can say.
 
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Strong in Him

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if such persons do not have an obsession with it then why do they write so many complaints about not receiving communion in a Catholic Church when they are Protestants who reject the core of Catholic teaching?
I don't know if you're referring to me but I have not been writing "so many complaints" about not receiving communion in a Catholic church.

I wrote only of two occasions when I was taking part in worship with Catholics. It would have been nice of, in the interests of Christian unity, I had been offered communion. My belief is that to receive communion is to receive Jesus. It does not imply acceptance of Catholic doctrines, nor is it a request for membership into that church. That being the case, it's sad that anyone would want to try to keep others from him.

To be honest, if there had been any in that church/on that retreat who believed - as you do - that if I rejected the catholic church I was rejecting Jesus, I wouldn't have even gone near the place.
 
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Servus

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if such persons do not have an obsession with it then why do they write so many complaints about not receiving communion in a Catholic Church when they are Protestants who reject the core of Catholic teaching?
Obsession is your take, but that's not what it is. It's a matter of principle. Since communion was established by Christ, there are Christians who feel that denying other Christians to partake in communion is a bad policy. It's a significant demonstration of division that defeats unity through Christ. It's where church and man-made church policy supersedes Christ and being a Christian. The only requirement in partaking in communion should be being a baptized believer in Christ.
 
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Strong in Him

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Servus

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Because they have no Eucharist, no real presence, that is why they could care less who attends.
It's amazing that man thinks he wields power over something that is of God. That his power, and not the power of almighty God, is what makes the Eucharist the Eucharist.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Obsession is your take, but that's not what it is.
It sure looks like it.
It's a matter of principle.
What principle would that be; when you visit another family's place of worship what makes you feel like you have a right to receive the sacraments that they tell you require adherence to Catholic doctrine?
Since communion was established by Christ, there are Christians who feel that denying other Christians to partake in communion is a bad policy.
It's honest policy.
It's a significant demonstration of division that defeats unity through Christ.
The division exists completely independent of the sacraments. People who deny the meaning of the sacraments and who deny essential Catholic doctrine cannot in good conscience receive the sacraments in a Catholic church because they are offered to those who share Catholic faith.
It's where church and man-made church policy supersedes Christ and being a Christian.
The gospels and the letters of the saints in the New Testament urge Christians to be of one mind and one purpose, but neither of those is present when at least one party disavows the beliefs of the other.
The only requirement in partaking in communion should be being a baptized believer in Christ.
That's not the truth, not only is baptism required but also a life of faith.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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It's amazing that man thinks he wields power over something that is of God.
What's more amazing is when people turn up at Church and make demands about partaking of the sacraments. People who will NOT subject themselves to the Church's discipline.
That his power, and not the power of almighty God, is what makes the Eucharist the Eucharist.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Indeed, Chist and the Holy Spirit make the Eucharist the Eucharist, not man.
If that were truly what you believe then no protestant should ever have mocked the real presence and the Holy Eucharist and all should confess with honesty that the host and the precious blood are truly the body and the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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