shernren
you are not reading this.
- Feb 17, 2005
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We nip around the edges at best in giving credit to God in view of these long odds. Creationists make this mistake. But, many evolutionists seem phobic in this particular area and they get very annoyed when the creationist chorus sings any type of Allelujah whatsoever. It seems to matter greatly that the Allelujah's are voiced by folks who are happy to see man tracks and dino tracks in the same rocks in Paluxy. It should matter more that there is an Allelujah at all.
Indeed, we are always thankful that creationists are Christians; however, we cannot allow creationists to represent Christians. If all who said Allelujah were indeed folks who are happy to see man tracks and dino tracks in the same rocks in Paluxy (the example that you have chosen, not me), who would want to say Allelujah any more?
We don't give thanks to God merely for long odds - as if God should somehow be thanked any less if the odds are shorter. God be praised at all times in all ways for all things, whether we understand or we don't understand, whether the chances are one in a million or really one in one. The creationist chorus would tell us evolutionists that if what we believe is true then there should be no Allelujahs at all. They would have us sing only on their terms; why should we acquiesce?
However, lets try to imagine what is really happening in TE world:
"Imagine" being the keyword ...
1. There is rejoicing at God's ability to pull off a vastly complicated exercise known in secular science as "self-organizing" (whatever the heckfire that is) Putting on their T hats, the TEs are giving God the glory.
When have our theist hats ever been off? Again, God is to be praised at all times for all things whether we are mystified by them or not. Praise God if self-organization (which is simply dissipative systems far from equilibrium - but of course what they really are doesn't matter to you as long as you think you can cut evolutionists with them) is never explained by science; and praise God if tomorrow we unravel all the secrets of life in every corner of planet Earth. How could things ever be otherwise?
2. Darwinism has adopted concepts of mythic (indeterminate) proportions, such as self-organizing, which sounds like they have borrowed from theology in the process, but apparently have moved closer to the creationist camp simply because they have found a conceptual wall on the issue of why things are as they are. Putting aside the smart-allecky tone, I hope I get some TE agreement. Creationists should well understand that the notion of randomness is apparently being contained in the land of Darwin. These are good things.
The last time I supplied a technical explanation of what randomness and self-organization are you showed no hint of any comprehension of their actual nature whatsoever. Why should I assume anything different this time? For those who are actually interested in what randomness and self-organization are (instead of those who are interested only in how much leverage they can get out of bombastic terms against evolutionists) see here: http://christianforums.com/t6985420-an-unfortunate-relapse-more-dissent-from-darwin.html&page=3 (post 22).
3. We all agree that evolution happens, at least on a micro level and within species.
And only because the physical evidence forces you to.
4. We still differ on timing, particularly where the meaning of the geologic column, astronomy, etc. are concerned. But, the overall divergence is perhaps more narrow than many thought.
Most creationists would think we differ on more than timing.
5. Politically, we differ greatly. I still can't fathom why TEs are so opposed to teaching ID in view of the above. The claims of ID are quite modest. I hear echoes of Jean Kirkpatrick talking about Robert All-I-Want-From-The-US-Is-Napalm D'Abusson: to paraphrase, he may be an SOB, but at least he's our SOB. The main distinction between ID and "self-organizing" is who came up with it and whether that camp tends to give God credit. To see ID vilified has done LOTS of damage to the credibility of TEs in the eyes of creationists. What it does is to cause these types of discussions to start with analogies to atheism. Wouldn't it be lovely if we could bury that hatchet! Altenburg and "self-organizing" may be old hat to some of you evolutionists, but I think that is a bit hasty to brush it off that way. Altenburg is saying a bunch of you evolutionists still have a warped and illegitimate fondness for randomness and you deserve to be embarrassed for hanging on so long to that concept. By comparison, ID looks pretty sophisticated, quite frankly, but I understand its not the evolutionists' horse.
Self-organization has a mathematical definition as a physical property of certain natural systems; ID is philosophically confused hodge-podge that by the admission of its own adherents ranks as high on the intellectual tree as astrology.
AiG tears into ID as much as TEs do (doesn't cost them any credibility in creationists' eyes);
Michael Behe supports the entire macroevolutionary process including the biological evolution of man, something mark kennedy is blissfully unaware of every time he quotes him;
TEs give God all credit where evolution occurs, while IDists would give none;
evolution is a scientifically useful and successful theory while ID has never generated even a single research finding.
6. And yes, Mr. Green, it is still largely about whether God is capable of creating without death.
Michael Behe and the ID camp in general think He can't. Are you still on their side?
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