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A broken faith with no way out.

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Sccye

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I posted here a bit about 4 years ago, when I was a Christian. A naive, sheltered, white and middle-class Christian. Needless to say, despite a fair grasp of my faith, it wasn't prepared for what a theology degree at Oxford would demand of me. For context: I'm currently 21, in my final year. I was a Christian all my life, raised Baptist / Anglican / Evangelical (Broadly middle-of-the-road Protestant in theological terms. I moved churches a fair amount.) until I came to university when I was 19. I was a Christian there for the first year, then I met my fiance and for the past year and a half have been agnostic.

The challenges of all the presuppositions that I used to hold were easy enough to deal with; questions on socio-historical context of the bible, historicity, hermeneutics and assorted doctrinal and philosophical questions about God as a whole. The faith I thought I knew was gradually unpicked. But, I view that as a healthy process. Rabid conviction in propositions about God is in essence idolatry (Or, if you prefer, a projection of one's subconscious ideologue into the divine sphere; one's existential, idiosyncratic perception of the zeitgeist. Whatever) - to not question such things would have been wrong. I wouldn't trade what I've learnt for anything.

Still, the end-product of this was the shattering of a superficial shell of faith; that is, faith in faith (That is, conviction in statements about God, found in dogmatics and exegetical frameworks etc...) rather than a subjective commitment to union with the divine reality which is relationship with the God. I aimed toward it, but couldn't find it. In addition, I didn't feel that I could have formed especially functional relationships with the other Christians in my college, I became increasingly uncomfortable at churches in Oxford. I joined a couple of societies where I made friends that understood me and didn't seem to judge me or make any assumptions about what constituted 'appropriate' or 'correct' Christian praxis. Such judgment isn't conscious, it isn't malign, but it's there nonetheless - exemplified in the beliefs assumptions that were in that particular group and ran into dissonance when I questioned them or collided with them. In short, we had different priorities and different emphases.

The people I got on with were different. I essentially said 'bugger it' at the end of my first year, and ended up leaving the smouldering wreckage of my socio-spiritual situation which was labelled Christian behind, and wandered around in agnosticism for a fair while. I encountered different political and social ideologies, which made more sense than Christian interpretations. Marx seemed to justly criticise the worst excesses of organised religion. Feminism meted fair judgment on the patriarchal, androcentric and often homophobic nature of Western, mainstream Christianity - despite advances in the modern church. I grew beyond myself and actually became what I hope is an existing, self-aware and engaged individual, whereas before I was in a pre-critical state of intellectual and - I realise now - spiritual paralyzation.

But for all that, I cannot find a way forward from here. Every time I consider the faith I knew, I find myself feeling angry, hurt and sick at all the things that it did to me. My sexuality was infected with guilt which a failed attempt at repression brought about, despite prayer and reading the bible with feverish desparation, day in and day out for 5 years. From that struggle, came a real self-loathing and sense of worthlessness, a feeling of being genuinely filthy. Unclean. Whatever prayer did to mitigate and submerge the feelings, they continually re-emerged. I lived, not really in misery, but in a state of perpetual insecurity and doubt and fear, the echoes of which still persist. But the further I get from it, the more I slowly begin to heal.

Yet for however much I grow, stronger and more alive, the more I still get a sense that God is still there, the same that Zie ever was. I don't know what traditions there are that I could seek God in, what advice to look for, where to go or how to do it. My old sense of things says that prayer and meditation should be enough, but my new sense says otherwise - that was it and was always missing is truly meaningful fellowship. The paradoxical problem is that I both fear and desire that spiritual kinship; for if another is close to me, then they can see my faults and failings and know my generally unorthodox theological convictions. I fear that which I love and love that which I fear, and held in check by overwhelming anxiety, the vertigo of infinite possibility is crippling. Add the angst of general existence that being in your final year at university here brings along with needing to worry about the rest of my life, and I don't have the energy or self belief to fix it.

The rotting spiritual aphorism which I used to go by was 'God will fix it if I have faith and patience enough, in some way.' - but I think my sense of self as a person in and before this was so broken that the external circumstances were never the problem. The fault seems to be an inward one. My basic convictions about spiritual reality need to be confronted, re-aligned and reformed. But I have not the slightest idea of where to begin. Especially when I'm very, very quick to criticise short answers or the trite stock of responses I'm used to (and used to give) as a Christian. 'Just believe' 'Check <this bible verse out>' 'God'll deal with it'. This of course, does render the question why this post exists, if I'm hardened and cynical and hence very difficult to reach. I suppose what I'd ask for is... well... prayer? Someone willing to engage with me? Something involved that can deal with the depth to which these issues go. Or even just perhaps offer directions or alternative avenues of thought which I haven't considered. Anything is helpful, to be honest.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, if you managed it to the end. It's hard to summarise two or three years' worth of spiritual development and thought and feeling into anything which isn't substantitive!
 

aiki

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Especially when I'm very, very quick to criticise short answers or the trite stock of responses I'm used to (and used to give) as a Christian. 'Just believe' 'Check <this bible verse out>' 'God'll deal with it'. This of course, does render the question why this post exists, if I'm hardened and cynical and hence very difficult to reach. I suppose what I'd ask for is... well... prayer? Someone willing to engage with me? Something involved that can deal with the depth to which these issues go. Or even just perhaps offer directions or alternative avenues of thought which I haven't considered. Anything is helpful, to be honest.

Anything is helpful - except "trite, stock responses", right? :)

Upon what exactly do you wish to engage?

Peace to you.
 
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Sccye

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Anything is helpful - except "trite, stock responses", right? :)

Upon what exactly do you wish to engage?

Peace to you.

Haha, true. I'm a bit mixed up in all this, so specifics aren't my strong point.

Let's see if I can express myself with a little more clarity

I've spoken to some Christian friends, and a lot of responses are 'God loves you no matter what' 'Jesus died for you' and other little Christian aphorisms or extensions on them that are great for inspirational posters, but things that I've had drilled into me for 18 years that don't really convey much meaning any more.

I'd like to engage with people on ways maybe to come back to God, or find a new mode of looking at things. I suppose a look at my experience, saying 'Dude, that something like that kinda happened to me: Here's something I learnt through things' would be nice. Ideas of different denominations, paths, spiritualities - I'm not really sure myself what I'm looking for. I guess that's the problem. I'm seeking God. I just wondered if a large collection of His people might be able to help get me out of this rut and in a different direction away from my past and what I'm used to.
 
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aiki

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I've spoken to some Christian friends, and a lot of responses are 'God loves you no matter what' 'Jesus died for you' and other little Christian aphorisms or extensions on them that are great for inspirational posters, but things that I've had drilled into me for 18 years that don't really convey much meaning any more.

Ah. I see. Well, I can't say as I'm particularly in love with any of the catch-phrases, pithy sayings, etc., that bubble up to the surface of pop evangelical Christianity, either. Most of them are only half-truths, or seek to express deep and expansive truths in such a condensed form that they end up obscuring the truths they are intended to reveal. Take, for instance, the remark that "God loves you no matter what." It sounds nice; it elicits a generally positive response from the unsaved, but it is actually, for the most part, untrue. I have yet to see this statement well-supported by Scripture. God does love us with a very great love, but He doesn't love us blindly, or with a love that is all-embracing. His love, the Bible tells us, is holy and this means that what is not holy God's love will reject. So it is that we frequently encounter verses in the Bible about God's wrath, and His condemnation, and His judgment. We find a holy God, in spite of His great love, necessarily and deeply opposed to our sin.

You make it sound like what biblical truths you were taught as a younger person have been rendered meaningless because they were "drilled into you." Is this mainly a matter of familiarity breeding contempt, or is there more at play here?

I'd like to engage with people on ways maybe to come back to God, or find a new mode of looking at things.

Hmmm...The Bible, the guide book for Christianity, is pretty clear about there being only a single way to God. No doubt you've heard this one:

Jesus said: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man comes unto the Father but by me." Jn. 14:6 (KJV)

Or this one: "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12 (NKJV)

If you're looking for some other way, I can't, as a Christian, suggest one.

I suppose a look at my experience, saying 'Dude, that something like that kinda happened to me: Here's something I learnt through things' would be nice. Ideas of different denominations, paths, spiritualities - I'm not really sure myself what I'm looking for. I guess that's the problem. I'm seeking God. I just wondered if a large collection of His people might be able to help get me out of this rut and in a different direction away from my past and what I'm used to.

Actually, I, too, was a coat-tail Christian until I left home to attend university. Like you, I was inundated with views and ideas that almost universally disagreed with the worldview with which I'd been raised. Unlike, you, however, the trial of my faith that ensued brought me deeper into fellowship with God and made my faith truly my own. When the storm of anti-theistic, and particularly anti-Christian ideas hit me at university, I didn't initially look for more facts, and arguments, and intellectual bases for my faith. No, instead, what I wanted most of all was to know that God was real. I wanted a genuine, personal experience of God and I knew if I had that my faith could endure the storms I was encountering. And so it was. God, however, did not answer my very earnest prayer for a greater reality of Him in my life as I thought He would. There was no golden epiphany, no sweet, ecstatic moment of enlightenment. It took a very dark stretch of time to propel me into a full experience of God. I'm not suggesting that this is how God might work with you; only that He will surprise you with how He may turn your heart back to Him.

Peace to you.
 
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Quaero

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Where to start...?

I posted here a bit about 4 years ago, when I was a Christian. A naive, sheltered, white and middle-class Christian. Needless to say, despite a fair grasp of my faith, it wasn't prepared for what a theology degree at Oxford would demand of me. For context: I'm currently 21, in my final year. I was a Christian all my life, raised Baptist / Anglican / Evangelical (Broadly middle-of-the-road Protestant in theological terms. I moved churches a fair amount.) until I came to university when I was 19. I was a Christian there for the first year, then I met my fiance and for the past year and a half have been agnostic.

The challenges of all the presuppositions that I used to hold were easy enough to deal with; questions on socio-historical context of the bible, historicity, hermeneutics and assorted doctrinal and philosophical questions about God as a whole. The faith I thought I knew was gradually unpicked. But, I view that as a healthy process. Rabid conviction in propositions about God is in essence idolatry (Or, if you prefer, a projection of one's subconscious ideologue into the divine sphere; one's existential, idiosyncratic perception of the zeitgeist. Whatever) - to not question such things would have been wrong. I wouldn't trade what I've learnt for anything.

Still, the end-product of this was the shattering of a superficial shell of faith; that is, faith in faith (That is, conviction in statements about God, found in dogmatics and exegetical frameworks etc...) rather than a subjective commitment to union with the divine reality which is relationship with the God. I aimed toward it, but couldn't find it. In addition, I didn't feel that I could have formed especially functional relationships with the other Christians in my college, I became increasingly uncomfortable at churches in Oxford. I joined a couple of societies where I made friends that understood me and didn't seem to judge me or make any assumptions about what constituted 'appropriate' or 'correct' Christian praxis. Such judgment isn't conscious, it isn't malign, but it's there nonetheless - exemplified in the beliefs assumptions that were in that particular group and ran into dissonance when I questioned them or collided with them. In short, we had different priorities and different emphases.

The people I got on with were different. I essentially said 'bugger it' at the end of my first year, and ended up leaving the smouldering wreckage of my socio-spiritual situation which was labelled Christian behind, and wandered around in agnosticism for a fair while. I encountered different political and social ideologies, which made more sense than Christian interpretations. Marx seemed to justly criticise the worst excesses of organised religion. Feminism meted fair judgment on the patriarchal, androcentric and often homophobic nature of Western, mainstream Christianity - despite advances in the modern church. I grew beyond myself and actually became what I hope is an existing, self-aware and engaged individual, whereas before I was in a pre-critical state of intellectual and - I realise now - spiritual paralyzation.

But for all that, I cannot find a way forward from here. Every time I consider the faith I knew, I find myself feeling angry, hurt and sick at all the things that it did to me. My sexuality was infected with guilt which a failed attempt at repression brought about, despite prayer and reading the bible with feverish desparation, day in and day out for 5 years. From that struggle, came a real self-loathing and sense of worthlessness, a feeling of being genuinely filthy. Unclean. Whatever prayer did to mitigate and submerge the feelings, they continually re-emerged. I lived, not really in misery, but in a state of perpetual insecurity and doubt and fear, the echoes of which still persist. But the further I get from it, the more I slowly begin to heal.

Yet for however much I grow, stronger and more alive, the more I still get a sense that God is still there, the same that Zie ever was. I don't know what traditions there are that I could seek God in, what advice to look for, where to go or how to do it. My old sense of things says that prayer and meditation should be enough, but my new sense says otherwise - that was it and was always missing is truly meaningful fellowship. The paradoxical problem is that I both fear and desire that spiritual kinship; for if another is close to me, then they can see my faults and failings and know my generally unorthodox theological convictions. I fear that which I love and love that which I fear, and held in check by overwhelming anxiety, the vertigo of infinite possibility is crippling. Add the angst of general existence that being in your final year at university here brings along with needing to worry about the rest of my life, and I don't have the energy or self belief to fix it.

The rotting spiritual aphorism which I used to go by was 'God will fix it if I have faith and patience enough, in some way.' - but I think my sense of self as a person in and before this was so broken that the external circumstances were never the problem. The fault seems to be an inward one. My basic convictions about spiritual reality need to be confronted, re-aligned and reformed. But I have not the slightest idea of where to begin. Especially when I'm very, very quick to criticise short answers or the trite stock of responses I'm used to (and used to give) as a Christian. 'Just believe' 'Check <this bible verse out>' 'God'll deal with it'. This of course, does render the question why this post exists, if I'm hardened and cynical and hence very difficult to reach. I suppose what I'd ask for is... well... prayer? Someone willing to engage with me? Something involved that can deal with the depth to which these issues go. Or even just perhaps offer directions or alternative avenues of thought which I haven't considered. Anything is helpful, to be honest.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, if you managed it to the end. It's hard to summarise two or three years' worth of spiritual development and thought and feeling into anything which isn't substantitive!

Dang, that took a while :p

I'm only just starting out at Uni, however I've managed to travel in the complete opposite spiritual direction.

I was raised in a secular home, and was never religious, in fact I used to spend my time arguing against faith - and was a registered member of the Dawkins Foundation. However once I got to Uni and was surrounded by people who believed (I sought out the Christian discussion groups for an argument), and it just kinda happened...

If you go too far into theology without a strong faith, it is easy to completely loose your way. As an Atheist it is always easiest to pick apart church doctrine and dogma to falsify faith, and unless you understand these things from a religious stand view it is easy to be convinced of their erroneousness nature.

As for the whole which religion is right? ..... can anyone conclusively answer that? I was just drawn toward Christianity, and through reading the Bible I established a semi-balance of faith for the first time in my life. Just follow your heart and you'll get there. (<staff editd> that sounds cheesy)
 
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salida

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Sccye --

It sounds like you were taught your faith but I'm not sure you really understand it. I'm a christian spiritually first and intellectually second. The bible is the most true book in the world because of the overwhelming evidence that supports it. Because of its attributes it could only be written by God. God did use imperfect men inspired by the Holy Spirit. One of the attributes I find amazing is that there are hundreds of detailed prophesies that has come true and more are being fullfilled. You may want to read, The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (it would stand up in a court of law because of the evidence without a shadow of a doubt).

Also, this is why mankind needs a Lord and Savior. Are you a good person? http://www.livingwaters.com/good/ Only Jesus could keep all the 10 Commandments all the time 100&#37; of the time. The rest of the religions one is saved by works only - but this is a form of bribery. With christianity one is saved through grace by faith - with saving faith good works becomes a byproduct.
 
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salida

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Biblical Evidence &#8211; This is a very small amount of information
out of large amounts of information out there.

Internal Evidences-Prophesies that are confirmed with Bible;

mentioning only a few &#8211; but there are hundreds.

Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen. 49:10, Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke&#8217;s time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5, Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 &#8211; four kingdoms are described in the interpretation
of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek &#8211; Daniel 8:21, 10:20/ and a fourth great kingdom to follow which was part iron and clay &#8211; which is the
Roman Empire &#8211; during this empire, Christ came and the church was established &#8211; Daniel 2:44.

Historical Accuracy

The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events of hundreds of years ago, yet
none of them has been proven to be incorrect.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents)
New Testament &#8211; starts at 25 years &#8211; between the original and surviving copies
Homer- starts at 500 years/Demosthenes &#8211; at 1400 years/Plato &#8211; at 1200 years/
Caesar &#8211; at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies

New Testament &#8211; 5,686/Homer &#8211; 643/Demosthenes &#8211; 200/Plato &#8211; 7/Caesar &#8211; 10

Consistency &#8211; Written by 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no
Internal inconsistencies.

Claim of Inspiration- It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.

External Evidences

(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never to be built again- and they haven&#8217;t.
Niveveh &#8211; Nahum 1:10, 3:7, 15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon &#8211; Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre -Ezekiel 26:1-28

Bible before Science

He hangs the earth on nothing &#8211; Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago &#8211; some scholars think it could have been even 3000
years ago)
Note: Man only knew the above for 350 years.
Earth is a sphere &#8211; Isaiah 40:22/Air has weight &#8211; Job 28:25/
Gravity &#8211; Job 26:7, Job 38: 31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Documents that Prove Bible is True

Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archealogical Evidence (Still adding to this list today- it hasn&#8217;t stopped)
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel










 
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FutureAndAHope

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It is always easy to loose your way, but I believe God always has a way of making us found again if that makes sense. It is God's desire to bring you to a genuine heart felt kind of repentance. When I was messed up God kept sending people to me with just one verse of scripture from the bible "I know the thoughts I think toward you for good and not for evil" - people would just have to lay a hand on me and the verse would be the first thing that came out their mouth.

Now I am cautiously safe from doubt, and God has used me to help other people. If I was you I would not take the worry pills, just relax a little and wait and see what God does for you.

Too help build your faith up I will share with you my favorite story that I share here all the time because it, in my mind at least is quite amazing. It is something that happened to me.

One morning I got up and walked into the hall and a voice spoke to me and said "How would you like to be stabbed in the valley". The valley was the tough end of town and I had planned to go down to the valley that day. I was a bit scared of t and thougght maybe God is displeased with me, this shows we all some times have doubts and fears, but as you will see I had nothing to fear. I went down to the valley any way, to ask people out to church. I walked up to the first person I saw and started a conversation along the lines of "How would you like to go out to church". He said to me "No I am an athiest, I don't believe in God". I just said fine and hoped to change his mind. Shortly latter he proceeded to lift up (or unbutton) his shirt and showed me scar marks. He said to me "the reason I don't believe in God is I was attacked by a mad man in the valley with a knife". So I knew God ment him not me when he asked "How would I like it (like being stabbed)" I took him home latter, and on the way home I shared the story with him of How God had spoken to me and shown me his reason for not trusting God. He a few weeks latter came out to church and was saved.

He had reasons for not trusting, we all have reasons from time to time, things people or teaching may do to us. But it is not God doing it it is just some times we go throught stuff that is just too hard to deal with or explain to others.
 
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SixNine

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Where to start...?

I posted here a bit about 4 years ago, when I was a Christian. A naive, sheltered, white and middle-class Christian. Needless to say, despite a fair grasp of my faith, it wasn't prepared for what a theology degree at Oxford would demand of me. For context: I'm currently 21, in my final year. I was a Christian all my life, raised Baptist / Anglican / Evangelical (Broadly middle-of-the-road Protestant in theological terms. I moved churches a fair amount.) until I came to university when I was 19. I was a Christian there for the first year, then I met my fiance and for the past year and a half have been agnostic.

The challenges of all the presuppositions that I used to hold were easy enough to deal with; questions on socio-historical context of the bible, historicity, hermeneutics and assorted doctrinal and philosophical questions about God as a whole. The faith I thought I knew was gradually unpicked. But, I view that as a healthy process. Rabid conviction in propositions about God is in essence idolatry (Or, if you prefer, a projection of one's subconscious ideologue into the divine sphere; one's existential, idiosyncratic perception of the zeitgeist. Whatever) - to not question such things would have been wrong. I wouldn't trade what I've learnt for anything.

Still, the end-product of this was the shattering of a superficial shell of faith; that is, faith in faith (That is, conviction in statements about God, found in dogmatics and exegetical frameworks etc...) rather than a subjective commitment to union with the divine reality which is relationship with the God. I aimed toward it, but couldn't find it. In addition, I didn't feel that I could have formed especially functional relationships with the other Christians in my college, I became increasingly uncomfortable at churches in Oxford. I joined a couple of societies where I made friends that understood me and didn't seem to judge me or make any assumptions about what constituted 'appropriate' or 'correct' Christian praxis. Such judgment isn't conscious, it isn't malign, but it's there nonetheless - exemplified in the beliefs assumptions that were in that particular group and ran into dissonance when I questioned them or collided with them. In short, we had different priorities and different emphases.

The people I got on with were different. I essentially said 'bugger it' at the end of my first year, and ended up leaving the smouldering wreckage of my socio-spiritual situation which was labelled Christian behind, and wandered around in agnosticism for a fair while. I encountered different political and social ideologies, which made more sense than Christian interpretations. Marx seemed to justly criticise the worst excesses of organised religion. Feminism meted fair judgment on the patriarchal, androcentric and often homophobic nature of Western, mainstream Christianity - despite advances in the modern church. I grew beyond myself and actually became what I hope is an existing, self-aware and engaged individual, whereas before I was in a pre-critical state of intellectual and - I realise now - spiritual paralyzation.

But for all that, I cannot find a way forward from here. Every time I consider the faith I knew, I find myself feeling angry, hurt and sick at all the things that it did to me. My sexuality was infected with guilt which a failed attempt at repression brought about, despite prayer and reading the bible with feverish desparation, day in and day out for 5 years. From that struggle, came a real self-loathing and sense of worthlessness, a feeling of being genuinely filthy. Unclean. Whatever prayer did to mitigate and submerge the feelings, they continually re-emerged. I lived, not really in misery, but in a state of perpetual insecurity and doubt and fear, the echoes of which still persist. But the further I get from it, the more I slowly begin to heal.

Yet for however much I grow, stronger and more alive, the more I still get a sense that God is still there, the same that Zie ever was. I don't know what traditions there are that I could seek God in, what advice to look for, where to go or how to do it. My old sense of things says that prayer and meditation should be enough, but my new sense says otherwise - that was it and was always missing is truly meaningful fellowship. The paradoxical problem is that I both fear and desire that spiritual kinship; for if another is close to me, then they can see my faults and failings and know my generally unorthodox theological convictions. I fear that which I love and love that which I fear, and held in check by overwhelming anxiety, the vertigo of infinite possibility is crippling. Add the angst of general existence that being in your final year at university here brings along with needing to worry about the rest of my life, and I don't have the energy or self belief to fix it.

The rotting spiritual aphorism which I used to go by was 'God will fix it if I have faith and patience enough, in some way.' - but I think my sense of self as a person in and before this was so broken that the external circumstances were never the problem. The fault seems to be an inward one. My basic convictions about spiritual reality need to be confronted, re-aligned and reformed. But I have not the slightest idea of where to begin. Especially when I'm very, very quick to criticise short answers or the trite stock of responses I'm used to (and used to give) as a Christian. 'Just believe' 'Check <this bible verse out>' 'God'll deal with it'. This of course, does render the question why this post exists, if I'm hardened and cynical and hence very difficult to reach. I suppose what I'd ask for is... well... prayer? Someone willing to engage with me? Something involved that can deal with the depth to which these issues go. Or even just perhaps offer directions or alternative avenues of thought which I haven't considered. Anything is helpful, to be honest.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, if you managed it to the end. It's hard to summarise two or three years' worth of spiritual development and thought and feeling into anything which isn't substantitive!

I currently study mathematics... I believe in God and in Christ, but I'm not a member of any church or brand. Quite frankly, most of the churches make me sick. I've been attacked so many times for being a scientist that it's not even funny anymore. I also cannot stand their attitudes towards class and humanity. So I came to the conclusion that brand names are not needed. Besides, just about every "brand" is undergoing self destruction.
 
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You are in the process of leaving behind a faith that you have outgrown. Now, you will either lose your Christian faith or discover a far more robust, relevant one. For the latter you will need good resources and be diligent, just as you were in your university studies.

Two sites have a lot of good material available bethinking.org and veritas.org. There are probably others, but I have made use of these sites over the years and found some very worthwhile material there.

John
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Bain_Adaneth

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Maybe you weren&#8217;t really saved to begin with. Maybe that&#8217;s the whole problem, I don&#8217;t know. Maybe you grew up like me, unsure of my own salvation, but having those all around me tell me not to doubt my faith or salvation. Contrary to what the bible teaches, because I lived a sinner&#8217;s life and did all things that God detested. I grew up in a Christian family, gave my life to God six times. And I still wasn&#8217;t saved. How do I know, because after I finally was saved, I realized all those times I&#8217;ve prayed to receive Christ, I really wasn&#8217;t. I was so stubborn. It was only in my college years when I came to a point in my life when I decided that I either find out the Truth and find that there really is a God, or I will live the rest of my life the way I want to. It really bothered me to think that if there is a God, then what if I&#8217;m not really saved? So I decided that I was going on a journey to find out for sure so that I won&#8217;t live the rest of my life unsure.
That was when I started getting into a whole bunch of stuff that opened my life up to spiritual warfare and demonic suppression. I was such a stubborn person. I would pray to God that He surpass my stubbornness, because unless I saw something or unless He proved His power, I will be lost for all eternity. And I would weep over this. I wanted to believe, but my heart was so stubborn. Even though throughout the years God showed me miracles, I only would believe for a small period of time, then I would go back into the world and live like the worst sinner.
The last straw was when I almost died from a night of spiritual warfare. I decided that if God saved me that night, I will serve Him as Lord forever. And He did.
I woke up the next morning. Didn&#8217;t think much of it, just glad that it was over. In the afternoon I finally realized what had happen and what I&#8217;ve told God in my heart. I thought through everything and all his power manifested in my life, and all those times He helped me that I refused to give credit to Him. At that point I told God, I repented everything and accepted Jesus Christ, and told God I will follow Him as my God for the rest of my life, and trust in Him. That was the point that He pulled the covers from my eyes. It was like He lifted a veil from my eyes, and that&#8217;s when I knew for sure that God really was God. And that everything I&#8217;ve learned in church was true! I was so excited. Before I could only have faith in Him, but when pulled off the veil, I knew for sure. It was knowledge that He placed in me, because a minute before that, I did not have it.
That&#8217;s when I knew for sure. That&#8217;s when everything that was so impossible, the moon, the stars, the universe was possible. I just remember looking at the moon that afternoon (the moon was up that day in daylight) and thinking to myself, God created that! And I believed 100&#37; of it. It was so amazing. After this I never doubted again.
What was different with this confession? In this confession, I knew that I could never do anything to repay the debt I owe God. I was sorry, humbled and broken before Him, and I confessed everything, and desperately wanted to follow Him all of my days. I was so wretched and weak, and knew that I was a filthy sinner, and at that point, I gave Him everything I had&#8230;which was nothing but myself and promised to follow Him.
Which is true to what Jesus said, if you seek Him with all your heart and soul&#8230;.you will surely find Him. God is looking for those who fear Him, who will worship Him in truth and listen to Him. Those who are broken hearted over sin, and humble to repent, and desire to be with Him and do His will. Those who will worship Him as their Lord and follow Him all of their days.


That was the most happiest day of my life. WHen I knew that there really was a God, and all the things I've grown up learning about and hoping for was really true. It was a miracle. I was so sorry that I was a miserable sinner, and that He still followed after me, so that I might be saved.

I didn't really know what to say, or how to help you. I only gave you my experience, because that is how God pulled me out of darkness into the sureness of His salvation. But I can tell you this, there is no doubt at all about my salvation. I never knew that we can ever be so sure of salvation. But now that I am saved, I know and I am 100% sure, because God has revealed it to me. The bible says that God will put His Spirit you and He will bear witness that you are a child of God (John 16:13-14). That is how I know.
 
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Soul_Searcher

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Hi Sccye,

"Yet for however much I grow, stronger and more alive, the more I still get a sense that God is still there, the same that Zie ever was. I don't know what traditions there are that I could seek God in, what advice to look for, where to go or how to do it. "

There are so many traditions and paths to God they are hard to count. The most efficient one is to love others. It's what Jesus taught, it's what Buddha taught, it's what most religions are based on, one way or another. Don't try to fit your faith into a box that isn't the right size. Just be yourself.

If you want some ideas on reading material, send me a private message, as I believe it's against the rules to post books on here.

"The paradoxical problem is that I both fear and desire that spiritual kinship; for if another is close to me, then they can see my faults and failings and know my generally unorthodox theological convictions."

And what's wrong with that? Being real is what matters. Let others see your faults and accept them. And accept others' faults and love them as they are. You'll do fine.

Have wonderful and long journey.
 
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hikersong

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Hi Sccye,

Sorry that I haven't got the time for an in depth response. I am in fact an agnostic, but I would highly recommend a book called Post-Evangelical by a guy called Dave Tomlinson who was a leader in the evangelical house church movement in the UK. It is an intelligent and compassionate book written by the author out of a desire to discuss questions very similar to the ones you raise. It has helped many who thought they were done with christianity. For myself, it was a stepping stone to a different place, but it is at least a place where I am able to live with my personal integrity intact.

All the best.

David
 
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liftmeup

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Hi

I didn't read all your answer I confess but I got the gist - you doubt the Christian faith. Are you anywhere near London? Can you get to the Friends Meeting House opposite Euston Station this weekend? There is a Christian Miracle Rally on Sat 23rd May 9-9 and Sun 24th May 9-5.

Don't bog yourself down in philosophy, come and witness God healing and converting people!
 
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