9 dead after shooting between biker gangs in Texas

[nightflight]

Police in Waco, Texas say nine people are dead and multiple people are injured after a shooting between rival biker gangs at a restaurant Sunday.

Authorities say the nine people killed in the shootout were all members of rival biker gangs that had gathered for a meeting.

Waco police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton told The Associated Press that eight people died at the scene of the shooting at the Twin Peaks restaurant about noon Sunday and another person died at a hospital. The severity of injuries to others was not immediately known and it is not clear if bystanders at the restaurant were among the injured.

"There are still bodies on the scene of the parking lot at Twin Peaks," he said. "There are bodies that are scattered throughout the parking lot of the next adjoining business."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/17/police-report-multiple-fatalities-after-shooting-in-texas/

 

[TerranceL]

Bikers killing bikers... if only we could figure out how to teach ISIS to do this.

 

[Lost Angel]

If more people had more firearms, this probably wouldn't have happened.

 

[JustOneWay]

thugs all.

 

[Billnew]

"Even before the deadly melee started, police were already in place, expecting a ruckus."

Police were on scene before trouble started and 9 people were killed.

It sounds like police were involved in the shooting. It sounds like a free for all shooting match.
Gangs shooting each other, gangs shooting at cops, cops shooting at gang members.

Maybe the cops should have been in the resturant or moved in quickly when the fights started?

This doesn't sound like a win for cops just because they were on scene before the shooting started.
A win would have been, no one killed.
Would the death toll been smaller if cops weren't there?

I support the police normally, but 9 dead when cops were on the scene before any violence happened seems like a failure rather then a success.

 

[bhsmte]

"Even before the deadly melee started, police were already in place, expecting a ruckus."

Police were on scene before trouble started and 9 people were killed.

It sounds like police were involved in the shooting. It sounds like a free for all shooting match.
Gangs shooting each other, gangs shooting at cops, cops shooting at gang members.

Maybe the cops should have been in the resturant or moved in quickly when the fights started?

This doesn't sound like a win for cops just because they were on scene before the shooting started.
A win would have been, no one killed.
Would the death toll been smaller if cops weren't there?

I support the police normally, but 9 dead when cops were on the scene before any violence happened seems like a failure rather then a success.

Well, guns can kill people pretty quickly.

 

[Billnew]

You usually expect police to minimize the problem. I can't help but wonder would this had been bigger without police or smaller?
Not crying over 9 gang members dead. Just don't understand how with a police presence 9 people died.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

If more people had more firearms, this probably wouldn't have happened.

Are you implying that gun control would keep guns out of the hands of bikers?

 

[keith99]

I listened to as much of the talking heads exonerating the restaurant and blaming the police.

The same talking heads who would be screaming about the excessive police action if the police had prevented this by moving in early and did it flawlessly, e.g. no one hurt.

The talking heads were saying there was no way for the restaurant to tell possible criminals from ordinary paying customers. Earth to ivory tower talking heads, these were members of outlaw biker gangs and all were wearing their colors. It is very easy to tell. And there were all there as members of the gangs in question.

Decades ago I went to a questionable bar near LAX a few times. It had experienced issues in the past, but no longer. Why? Because of one simple sign in the entry way and enforcement of the rule behind the sign. Two little words. No Colors.

 

[revanneosl]

I wonder why the police didn't move in with APC's & tear gas as soon as the thugs began to assemble. Will the talking heads on corporate news now begin to talk about the scourge of white-on-white crime?

 

[Lost Angel]

Are you implying that gun control would keep guns out of the hands of bikers?

Was that what I wrote?

If more of the bikers had firearms, they would have been less likely to use them.

 

[Followers4christ]

"I was amazed that we didn't have innocent civilians killed or injured." From the article

Normally outlaw biker clubs don't target civilians or anyone that is not apart of the underworld, because that goes against most of their bylaws. Most outlaw biker clubs have many rules that govern fights between other clubs and groups. Unlike most street gangs, bikers want to be left alone and keep most of the fighting out of the public eye. Like how many times do you hear bikers in the news?? While street gangs want to cause trouble and show how "bad" they are by shootings and stuff. Bikers try to limit violence and keep it out the public eye. Plus many clubs are more of a family structure with lots and lots of rules that govern the clubs much like the military with patches awarded to members who follow the code and sacrifice. Many clubs were birthed from service men who came out of wars like Vietnam and started clubs. Plus outlaw clubs like the Hell Angels do many events like toys for tots that help needy families and help their community. So to say they are like Isis is harsh lol and not in anyway correct. Anyway the newer clubs are becoming more violent as they have something to prove to the older clubs, but the older clubs want to keep it more about family and the same structure as it was in the 60s and 70s. If anybody wants to learn or talk more about them or their codes, I am here, I have studied outlaw bikers and I know some of them. By the way most of them are the same people who would help you if you were stranded on the side of the road as everyone else passes by.

 

[HannahT]

According to article I read more locally - this restaurant sounds like its a hang out for bikers. They have had rallies there, etc before. How could you NOT identify them...they were wearing their colors. The restaurant seems to be in trouble with the franchise at this point, because of the non cooperation. I would bet even some of the employees at this point were members of the gang(s).

What's confusing is they claim it was over a parking spot, and yet the fight started in the bathroom. It then spilled out into the parking lot as police arrived, and they (bikers) started to shot at them. They returned fire.

It seems now many bikers from out of town are coming INTO town, and are making threats against the police.

What a mess.

 

[Followers4christ]

I wonder why the police didn't move in with APC's & tear gas as soon as the thugs began to assemble. Will the talking heads on corporate news now begin to talk about the scourge of white-on-white crime?

Outlaw biker clubs assemble all the time together and usually there is no fighting between the clubs. Outlaw biker clubs usually take part in most biker rally's like Sturgis in South Dakota and smaller events like Street Vibrations in Reno NV. In these events dozens if not hundreds of outlaw clubs assemble together and there is no violence. So there was no way for the bar to know that violence was going to be issue this time. When this bar has served these clubs and other clubs in the past with no issues. But it's unfortunate that this happened and ruined it for other clubs.

 

[SuperCloud]

"I was amazed that we didn't have innocent civilians killed or injured." From the article

Normally outlaw biker clubs don't target civilians or anyone that is not apart of the underworld, because that goes against most of their bylaws. Most outlaw biker clubs have many rules that govern fights between other clubs and groups. Unlike most street gangs, bikers want to be left alone and keep most of the fighting out of the public eye. Like how many times do you hear bikers in the news?? While street gangs want to cause trouble and show how "bad" they are by shootings and stuff. Bikers try to limit violence and keep it out the public eye. Plus many clubs are more of a family structure with lots and lots of rules that govern the clubs much like the military with patches awarded to members who follow the code and sacrifice. Many clubs were birthed from service men who came out of wars like Vietnam and started clubs. Plus outlaw clubs like the Hell Angels do many events like toys for tots that help needy families and help their community. So to say they are like Isis is harsh lol and not in anyway correct. Anyway the newer clubs are becoming more violent as they have something to prove to the older clubs, but the older clubs want to keep it more about family and the same structure as it was in the 60s and 70s. If anybody wants to learn or talk more about them or their codes, I am here, I have studied outlaw bikers and I know some of them. By the way most of them are the same people who would help you if you were stranded on the side of the road as everyone else passes by.

American "gangs"--aside from those birthed in prisons--often allow teenagers to become members. Ergo the kind of violence you are speaking of. Rarely do you hear of 27 year-old Crips or Vice Lords just running around shooting anyone or attacking "neutrons" like myself.

The Outlaw MC's are the big 1% white club in Milwaukee. There are outlaw black biker clubs in Milwaukee as well... like the Hell's Lovers. They're as much of "thugs" as 40 year-old Mexican Mafia members or 40 year-old Gangster Disciple gang members that either work or are unemployed.

American "super-gangs" as Federal Law Enforcement calls them like the Crips, Bloods, Vice Lords, Gangster Disciples, Latin Kings and so on... are more akin to the Southern mafia in Naples, Italy called the Camorra. In both cases teenagers are let in and they are more loosely organized than the Sicilian Mafia. The looser organization has it's pros and cons for their organizations.

Most these "gangs" you speak of prefer to be called "organizations." They will tell you they are not a gang but an organization. However, they will call themselves and any clique of people however small in a number a "mob." So, a 1% biker club in these street gang's lingo can be called "a mob."

Some years ago the Southern Wisconsin Outlaw chapters were helping the Chicago Outlaws fight of the Hell's Angels moving into their territory in Illinois. Which brought some Federal indictments.

Anyways, both the Outlaws and the Hell's Angels carry heavy racist themes. They love their swastikas and promote a White Pride. And the HA's in British Colombia, Canada made themselves into richest HA's in the world. And one of the HA's in Canada (may have been Quebec) was a serial killer with over 100 murdered victims.

So, the HA's doing chairty events is like the Mexican cartels doing charity events.

 

[SuperCloud]

Outlaw biker clubs assemble all the time together and usually there is no fighting between the clubs. Outlaw biker clubs usually take part in most biker rally's like Sturgis in South Dakota and smaller events like Street Vibrations in Reno NV. In these events dozens if not hundreds of outlaw clubs assemble together and there is no violence.

These are men often in their 40's, 50's, and 60's. Okay, it is no surprise they usually don't get into big brawls like teenage boys or young men in their early 20s.

You know... in Milwaukee quite a number of black bars and black lounges mandate you have to be 25 years of age or older to get in. There is a reason for that. Ethnic Black-American men in their mid to late 20's and especially in their 30's and 40's (let alone 50's and 60's) usually don't act as knuckle-headed as young black males in their roaring early 20's. In other words, these bars and lounges cut down the fights by catering to an older crowd.

 

[SuperCloud]

The book about a young boy raised up among the 1% Pagan motorcycle club is pretty good. At one point he talks about some of the Pagans pulling him into a van (full of fleas--but hygiene didn't appear to be a top priority among Pagans) when he was a still a child, and how some Pagan woman owned by the club gave him oral sex in the van.

The Pagans are on the East Coast of the United States. They used to work cracking heads for the Philly mafia too apparently.


http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/pro...hony-lt-menginie/1100743190?ean=9781250007322



http://www.milwaukeemag.com/2008/01/31/JusticeDenied/


"On a chilly November morning 26 years ago, Larry Anstett pulled himself out of bed before the sun rose; bundled up in corduroy pants, long johns, sweatshirt and nylon jacket; hoisted a bulging Milwaukee Sentinel newspaper bag over his shoulder and went to work. A ninth-grader at Wilbur Wright Junior High School on the city’s Northwest Side, Larry had taken over the paper route from his older brother. Though he dreaded the early-morning hours, he liked having a little spending money in his pocket.

Larry was tromping down the sidewalk of North 83rd Street at 6 a.m., hurling newspapers into the front yards of his customers, when something caught his eye. Resting on the roof of an unoccupied Oldsmobile was a box decorated in colorful gift wrap like a Christmas present.

Larry stepped to the driver’s side of the car to inspect the curious gift box. When he lifted it from the roof, the box exploded.

The force of the blast killed Larry instantly. His face was burned beyond recognition, his right eye ripped from its socket. Both of his hands were blown away and the bones in his arms shattered. Dozens of metal fragments were shot into his neck and chest, tearing into his windpipe and lungs, fracturing his collarbone and ribs and mangling his carotid arteries."

*

"A shakened Vermilyea said he was sure he knew what had happened. He was sure the murderous blast was an act of retaliation by the Outlaws Motorcycle Club, and he was sure he had been the intended target. But somehow, horribly, the bomb had claimed the life of 15-year-old Larry Anstett instead.

Vermilyea was president of Heaven’s Devils, a rival motorcycle club of about 30 members. The Devils were entangled in a violent feud with the Outlaws. Four months before the bombing, Vermilyea had testified against two Outlaws charged with stealing jacket patches from Heaven’s Devils at gunpoint. Known as “patching over,” the thefts were an intimidating tactic to force other bikers to join ranks with the Outlaws."

*

"Buschman was known by his Outlaws nickname of “Flapper” or “Flap,” a tongue-in-cheek reference to his less-than-garrulous nature. Born in September 1945, he has a rap sheet in Wisconsin that dates back to 1970, when he was charged in Racine County with operating an automobile without the owner’s consent. In 1974, he was arrested for the interstate transportation of stolen motorcycle parts, smuggled out of the Harley-Davidson plant in Milwaukee. Buschman did time in federal prison in Minnesota and then was transferred to Leavenworth to serve out the rest of his sentence.

In 1980, Buschman was convicted, with another Outlaw, of raping and beating a young woman at the Outlaws’ clubhouse in Milwaukee. He was sentenced to five years in state prison.

Those who have met Buschman describe him as cold and dangerous.

“He has no conscience,” says one former cop. “He’s a hard case.”


The quotations above are from a long article and its about the Outlaw chapter in Milwaukee in the old days of the 1970's.

 

[Followers4christ]

These are men often in their 40's, 50's, and 60's. Okay, it is no surprise they usually don't get into big brawls like teenage boys or young men in their early 20s.

You know... in Milwaukee quite a number of black bars and black lounges mandate you have to be 25 years of age or older to get in. There is a reason for that. Ethnic Black-American men in their mid to late 20's and especially in their 30's and 40's (let alone 50's and 60's) usually don't act as knuckle-headed as young black males in their roaring early 20's. In other words, these bars and lounges cut down the fights by catering to an older crowd.

It goes much deeper then they are just a bunch of old guys on bikes. When the older clubs were around there was little violence and now that there are young new members in these same clubs there is still little violence. The reason is the older members are teaching the new members the codes and bylaws that control their conduct. The club controls everything from the tattoos they can have to the patches they can wear, to how they act in public and with each other. The newer members of the established clubs are staying strong to the rules and codes of conduct. The newer clubs have a lot to learn. By the way most outlaw clubs are not racist, this is coming from a Mexican and my wife is black. The Hells Angels and some of the other clubs have never made any comments on race or skin color. Besides a lot of black motorcycle clubs also hang out with the Hells Angels and other of these "racist clubs". But it is true that there are no black members yet because of their public image that is meant to scare people that are not like them away from them. Many outlaw clubs have stated why their appearances seems racist was to scare people. But then they attracted real racist people who wanted to join and messed the point that the older biker groups were trying to make. Anyway there are many sites you can look up on this subject and even in Wikipedia.

 

[SuperCloud]

You can compare and contrast the criminality of the Outlaws MC's in "Justice Denied" article in post #17 with the portraits of criminality presented in the linked articles of this post (if you choose). Link #1 is of the former Milwaukee mafia family, but through the lens of one of its leading Sicilian-American families that had a prominent role in the Milwaukee mafia family. Link #2 is of your street gangs.

The 1% motorcycle clubs have their points of similarities but their points of differences from the two.


1. http://www.milwaukeemag.com/2008/01/31/DaughteroftheDon/

"Benedetta Balistrieri is the second of four children born to Frank and Antonina Balistrieri. Both parents were from proud Sicilian families. “Frankie Bal” was the reputed mafia boss of southeastern Wisconsin. He served a seven-year “penal experience,” as Tony Soprano might say, after being convicted of extortion and racketeering in 1984. Frank died in 1993, 15 months after he was sprung from prison.

Benny’s mother was born into the Alioto family. Antonina, or Nina, was the daughter of John Alioto, the don of Milwaukee’s La Cosa Nostra in the 1950s, who, so goes the story, handed down the golden sash to his daughter’s husband, Frankie. Nina died in September 1997."



2. http://www.milwaukeemag.com/2007/01/17/GangWars/


"Bernando Hernandez was one of the 33 Latin Kings indicted in 1998. He pleaded
an attempted murder charge down to a five-year prison stint and was back on the
streets in 2002. In December 2003, he walked up to two fellow Latin Kings in
Cielito Lindo restaurant and shot them both in the head. Witnesses heard
Hernandez call his victims “snitches.” Certain they’d cooperated with
investigators on his indictment, Hernandez was repeatedly bashing one of the
victim’s heads with a pistol when police arrived. “He hit him so hard the
trigger guard was bent,” says Bohlen."

 

[Followers4christ]

Outlaw clubs like to be referred as motorcycle clubs or MC's not organizations.