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[AveChristusRex]

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[PloverWing]

[ I'm not Catholic, but I'm intending to post in fellowship. ]
[ For background, I'm a professor at a secular university. ]

It's appropriate for your philosophy professor to expose you to a range of ideas, but it's totally inappropriate for your professor to make fun of anyone's religious faith. Additionally, the professor should shut down any ridiculing of religious faith if students start engaging in it during class. I expect my students to be respectful of each other in the classroom, even if they disagree with each other.

It's probably not worth debating him in class (unless the class assignment is to take a position and argue it), but you might say to him after class that you feel he's being disrespectful to you, and that you feel uncomfortable in class when your religion is being ridiculed, if you think he's open to hearing that.

Otherwise, ride it out. This guy sounds like a jerk, but I expect you'll encounter more respectful professors later on.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I am beginning to understand why they say to not go to secular universities... my "introduction into philosophy" class is just a constant degradation of the Christian faith, with inane conspiracies against the legitimacy of the faith being thrown around by the professor, including "It was during Constantine's time that the Bible was Compiled", "No scientists have ever confirmed transubstantiation", "Mary had other children", "The Bible was made by Christ's "buddies" so it cant be true". When I respond asking why he believes that or saying that it is not true, he gets defensive and says that you cannot trust any sources that are favoring Christianity because "all the Church fathers were biased", etc.

The other students get in on it too, accusing me of not "truly believing that the body and blood are Jesus" and making fun that "a loaf of bread was crucified on the cross", and generally making fun (the teacher joining in) of how silly the transubstantiation is. What should I do? I made a small list of the things that he accused and refuting them, but I know he wont read them and the damage done to the student's opinions of the faith is already settled in. I don't know what to do, and its making me upset, not that I cannot answer them, but that my fellow classmates are being told nothing but lies and conspiracies against the faith from a "former altar server" and "existentialist"...

What should I do? What should I say?

I went to a secular university but it was a long time ago. the more things change the more they stay the same. There was some professorial sarcasm back then. But then there were some other professors who I could have great conversations with. My guess is there will still be a few professors of the latter sort even today.

One thing you got yourself into by going to a secular university is some opposition. If you are alone in all of this it will all be uphill for you. BUT there are allies to be found. Is there a Newman Center at that University? Is there a Catholic parish that services the university? Are their other faithful Christians at the university? When I took a Bible class from a notorious atheist it was with a group of Christians who would support each other. We did a team tag approach and actually held our own. It wasn't just me.

So see if you can find others to take these classes with you.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I am beginning to understand why they say to not go to secular universities... my "introduction into philosophy" class is just a constant degradation of the Christian faith, with inane conspiracies against the legitimacy of the faith being thrown around by the professor, including "It was during Constantine's time that the Bible was Compiled", "No scientists have ever confirmed transubstantiation", "Mary had other children", "The Bible was made by Christ's "buddies" so it cant be true". When I respond asking why he believes that or saying that it is not true, he gets defensive and says that you cannot trust any sources that are favoring Christianity because "all the Church fathers were biased", etc.

The other students get in on it too, accusing me of not "truly believing that the body and blood are Jesus" and making fun that "a loaf of bread was crucified on the cross", and generally making fun (the teacher joining in) of how silly the transubstantiation is. What should I do? I made a small list of the things that he accused and refuting them, but I know he wont read them and the damage done to the student's opinions of the faith is already settled in. I don't know what to do, and its making me upset, not that I cannot answer them, but that my fellow classmates are being told nothing but lies and conspiracies against the faith from a "former altar server" and "existentialist"...

What should I do? What should I say?

Okay I have really strong opinions on this but I'll try to be objective. I went to college later in life (age 28-30) so by then my values were already formed and I was able to sit through all of their communist indoctrination and just roll my eyes. If you're in the same boat then the worst that'll happen is the worst offending classes you'll have to take will be cringe but they won't corrupt your values.

What kind of education are you pursuing? Are you looking at a future in academia? Maybe a writer, apologist, theologian, professor, etc? If anything of that nature maybe seeking a transfer to a Newman list college would be the best idea. For people who don't have any sort of career in mind I tend to suggest reconsidering college altogether. There are a lot of careers and trades out there that can be had without wasting tens of thousands of dollars and years of your life. After I got my current job I found out they didn't care at all about my bachelor's degree, they were more interested in and impressed by my work history. So unfortunately in hindsight I realized I could've ended up in the same place with a simple certificate that could've been had in 1/10 the time and for 1/300th the cost.

But I digress.

I think if I were you I would explore my transfer options from the Newman List of schools. Those are schools that you can be certain are properly Catholic, they're not gonna have any corrupt curricula and they're not going to be morally perverse.

As an aside, have you ever heard of the book Don't Go To College by Dr Michael Robillard and Timothy Gordon? You might find it interesting.

 

[linux.poet]

[posting in fellowship]

I went to secular university and I have an English degree as proof, and while my esteemed professorial colleagues have derided my papers as "not literary enough" and claimed that my ideas were unusual and cautioned me against using religious sources, even for a secular university that amount of religious bullying is a new low.

I advise to withdraw from the class and get a new professor. If it's passed the withdrawal date, talk to your student affairs representative, tell them what you just told me, and have them deal with it. Most universities don't allow religious discrimination and harassment in instruction. The other students you can get no-contact orders against.

If that doesn't work, save your points of argument and wait for the essay. Ignore the bullying as much as possible and focus on the ideas and the reasons why Catholicism rejects them. You may find the book The Darkening Age by Catherine Nixie to be of use - it highlights the Christian/Catholic opposition to secular philosophy and the source of some of the bitter comments in class. They don't like us because we're better than them, and they are mad because we won. If you can remember that, it will serve as an emotional shield for you against some of the more ignorant and nasty behavior.

 

[RileyG]

Your professor sounds like a typical Baptist or maybe an atheist?

I went to a Catholic University where the philosophy professor was a Baptist but had more Presbyterian/Reformed leanings. He didn't bring religion up unless it was a religious class he was teaching.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Okay I have really strong opinions on this but I'll try to be objective. I went to college later in life (age 28-30) so by then my values were already formed and I was able to sit through all of their communist indoctrination and just roll my eyes. If you're in the same boat then the worst that'll happen is the worst offending classes you'll have to take will be cringe but they won't corrupt your values.

What kind of education are you pursuing? Are you looking at a future in academia? Maybe a writer, apologist, theologian, professor, etc? If anything of that nature maybe seeking a transfer to a Newman list college would be the best idea. For people who don't have any sort of career in mind I tend to suggest reconsidering college altogether. There are a lot of careers and trades out there that can be had without wasting tens of thousands of dollars and years of your life. After I got my current job I found out they didn't care at all about my bachelor's degree, they were more interested in and impressed by my work history. So unfortunately in hindsight I realized I could've ended up in the same place with a simple certificate that could've been had in 1/10 the time and for 1/300th the cost.

But I digress.

I think if I were you I would explore my transfer options from the Newman List of schools. Those are schools that you can be certain are properly Catholic, they're not gonna have any corrupt curricula and they're not going to be morally perverse.

As an aside, have you ever heard of the book Don't Go To College by Dr Michael Robillard and Timothy Gordon? You might find it interesting.

Yes.

Transferring to some ‘catholic’ institutions would be just as much an uphill battle as the worst secular institutions. That’s sad but true. The Newman guide does great service in showing which Catholic institutions really are Catholic. Don’t waste a penny on a fake Catholic college or university in their race to the bottom of the cesspool of modern academia.

Transferring may make some sense. A technical certificate may also make some sense. My earlier post presumed sticking it out and finding allies on campus. There are undoubtedly some allies to be found.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Transferring to some ‘catholic’ institutions would be just as much an uphill battle as the worst secular institutions. That’s sad but true. The Newman guide does great service in showing which Catholic institutions really are Catholic. Don’t waste a penny on a fake Catholic college or university in their race to the bottom of the cesspool of modern academia.

Yeah it's sad but true that the institutions that were once bastions of Catholic higher education are now places to be wary of. I would never recommend a pious Catholic enroll at Marquette, Gonzaga, LMU, Georgetown, Fordham, or even Notre Dame. And that's just a handful of the Catholic universities out there that are corrupt. And the saddest part is their corruption in large part is owed to their athletic programs and Title IX funding. But I don't want to get in the weeds here.

@AveChristusRex of the colleges listed on the Newman List, the ones I personally know anything about (all second hand information from friends who attended) is that some of the best ones are Thomas Aquinas College, Christendom College, and Catholic University of America. Thomas Aquinas College is kind of on a tier of its own, and may actually be what you're looking for just judging by your previous posts. It offers one degree (a bachelors in liberal studies - philosophy and theology). It's incredibly rigorous, including a senior thesis that you must orally defend to the faculty. Their entire structure is also very unique, their classrooms are setup in roundtable format and everything is taught in Socratic form. The school itself has about 400-500 students so it's very small. Men and women dorms are entirely segregated, there's a dress code that includes men wearing ties and women wearing modest dresses or skirts to class. IMHO TAC is about as classical of a Catholic education one can get in the 21st century. And here's the thing: of the alumni I know and have met, these are some of the smartest people I've encountered anywhere. Even though their degree is focused on one thing, the way they go about getting it equips them to do and be anything. My friend works for a software developer, another is a winemaker, still others have gone on to the priesthood or religious life, some into politics.

I always wished I had gone there but it wasn't on my radar before because I only became Catholic in 2017, so I'm just its biggest non-alumni cheerleader and hope to send my kids there someday.

 

[Wolseley]

If I was a young person in this day and age, I'd forget about college and get myself a craftsman's certificate: welding, plumbing, HVAC, electrical, carpentry. It will cost you a fraction of the price you'll pay for an "academic" degree (most of which are becoming increasingly worthless as time goes on), and you'll find a good-paying job at much better pay than you will with a degree in philosophy, business management, or art history. And, you'll dodge these commentaries in Applied Practical Atheism, for the most part.

But that's me. Personally, I wouldn't stay in a class where my Faith was being attacked in such a disrespectful manner; but not everyone is me. Back when I went to college, things hadn't deteriorated to the point they have now, but we still got exposed to the anti-West, anti-Caucasian, anti-capitalism "politically correct" hogwash in vogue at the time. I went to college after having been in the military for years, though, so I knew horse manure when I heard it.

I used to enjoy sending the arrogant professors little "zingers" every now and then---like when a history prof I had made the statement that "the Europeans were the greatest purveyors of systematic slaveholding in history," to which I said (just loud enough to be heard by the class), "The Egyptians, Turks, Chinese, Arabs, and Aztecs all being non-existent." That got a guffaw out of quite a few people, and the prof's face got a little red, but if you're gonna play in the mud, expect to get dirty.

 

[linux.poet]

[posting in fellowship]

To my knowledge, an atheist who respects Nietzsche and has read Schopenhauer.

He respects Nietzche? Then you get the intellectual drop kick that Nietzche thought that the concept of God was good for human thinking: “God is dead and we have killed him” is a lament.

Admittedly, Nietzche is closer to The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self by Carl Truman territory. Ancient philosophy (Plato, Aristotle, etc) is closer to The Darkening Age because you’re dealing with idol worship, Christians destroying idols, and philosophers going underground to avoid getting killed. Again, we won.

Nietzche and Schopenhauer are part of the group of philosophers and literary writers who believe that man is basically good. You’re in the ring with Rouseau and Fraud, Jung, and Kant at that point, and that’s when I pull out The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self and switch modes. Christianity in general believes that man is basically evil and in need of salvation, and I’m pretty sure Catholics agree on that.
I tend to think that there are significant parallels between The Rise and Triumph and Male and Female He Created Them: A Theology of the Body by Pope John Paul II, but now I’m getting into a different set of weeds. You would be reading The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self for the philosophical explanation behind Freud and Rousseau and Nietzche/Schopenhauer, not for the commentary against sinful sexualities those two books exhibit.

At the end of the day, it’s all the same: Greek idols and their stories were replaced by literary characters and their novels - the only difference was time. The ancient philosophers found only questions with no answers from their idols that could not answer them; the modern philosophers made idols out of their own ideas and made up answers because they thought they were smart enough to figure it out without God.

Currently I'm going for an AA in Business Admin because I wanted to have a backup degree in case of me not wanting to pursue something in ministry.

Then “this too shall pass”, thankfully - you’ll be moving on to dry numerical analysis soon enough and not have to deal with this sort of nonsense for the next 4 years.