.

Righttruth · Mar 21, 2016

godsgoond said:
I grew up in a traditional church until I got into a car accident and fractured C3 and C4 neck bones. I was miraculously healed by people whom laid hands on me. These people attended spirit filled church. One of the girls (yes, she was only 16 years old at time) had one of her leg grew in front of her dad's eyes in a healing conference. Her dad was a surgical doctor. I can go on and on with miracles and wonders I saw and heard since I switched to spirit filled church. Spirit filled church believes in healing, miracles, prophets, visions, dreams which traditional church only talk about them during Bible study or Sunday sermons, no personal experience, not even the pastors had experienced themselves; traditional church pastors most of them have lots of head knowledges. The spirit filled church I attend, the entire service lasts about 2 and half hours. The worship time takes more than an hour waiting for the Holy Spirit and God's presence. After each Sunday service I feel refreshed, burden lifted, spiritually uplifted, faith strengthened....etc, versus attending 1 hour Sunday service which I used to at traditional church and felt no difference after the service but done my job of showing up at church each Sunday.

Temporal healing and getting cured is not the end of the story. Cultivating the fruit leads to salvation.

Righttruth · Mar 21, 2016

ViaCrucis said:
At my old Foursquare church our pastor frequently would try and explain that "getting saved" was like being an empty cup filled with water (the Holy Spirit) but that "baptism of the Holy Spirit" was like more Spirit poured in and starting to over flow outward--and this always included a visual example of a glass being over filled with water.

-CryptoLutheran

God is invisible so also His attributes and blessings.

Righttruth · Mar 21, 2016

sunlover1 said:
I never said "exalting" in anything.
Since God gives both, I'll say both are important

Then why is that praying, waiting and fasting for gifts? Fruit is least sought for!

godsgoond · Mar 21, 2016

Extraneous said:
If that's true why don't they go out to hospitals and heal the sick. I bet they would convert many people if they did.

Frankly I was really surprised when I got healed. I had x-rays to prove. First set shows fractured C-3 and C-4 taken on Thursday. Friday night I had people prayed for me. They asked me if I believe God will heal me. My answer to them was "I don't know. If He doesn't heal me it's fine because I read a book by Joni Eareckson who was paralyzed from neck down after a swimming accident and she was greatly used by God." My 2nd set of x-ray taken at Stanford Hospital neurosurgeon's office on Monday showed the fractures were gone. The doctor was perplexed. At the time, it didn't register in my mind that God had healed me so I didn't say anything. Later when I was at insurance company to file the medical claim. They asked me why did I take two sets of x-rays. I had to explain to the insurance agent what had happened. He replied jokingly "We need to send people to church for prayers."
This was the first time God healed me but not the last time. In my late 40s I had pinch nerve and had to crawl to the bathroom. A long story short, chiropractor not just one but three different doctors diagnosed me with x-ray results told me it will cost me $6,500 to fix my lower back problem. Fast forward, it didn't cost me a penny after 6 months of praying (I laid hands on my lower back and prayed for myself almost everyday asked God to heal me), I'm completely healed and run 3-4 times a week.
I know God heals some people not others. Why? You need to ask Him. I don't know either.
My friend's leg grew an inch right in front of her parents' eyes. She was born with one leg an inch shorter than the other. Her entire life, she wears orthopedic shoes. Her dad was a surgeon, mom was a nurse and they own a hospital. They are 4th generation of Buddhist. God had a plan to use this entire family but need to convert the parents first. They were invited to a Christian healing crusade and a long story short, she and her parents went up to the stage for prayer. The pastor told her parents "Don't close your eyes when I pray for your daughter. God is going to show perform miracle right before your eyes...." My friend's shorter leg grew one inch right in front of her parents eyes. Since then, at age 13, she no longer needs to wear orthopedic shoes. She finally could go shopping for shoes with her sisters and friends. Fast forward, the parents became Christian and converted part of hospital into church. My friend's brother later became a pastor. He was supposed to be a doctor to take over the family hospital business.
If I was not in that car accident at age 21, I would never explore outside the traditional church and would never have experienced healing but believe Jesus heals but not in the 21st century.
My advice, ask God and He will answer your question but hopefully not put you in a car accident.

Extraneous · Mar 21, 2016

godsgoond said:
Frankly I was really surprised when I got healed. I had x-rays to prove. First set shows fractured C-3 and C-4 taken on Thursday. Friday night I had people prayed for me. They asked me if I believe God will heal me. My answer to them was "I don't know. If He doesn't heal me it's fine because I read a book by Joni Eareckson who was paralyzed from neck down after a swimming accident and she was greatly used by God." My 2nd set of x-ray taken at Stanford Hospital neurosurgeon's office on Monday showed the fractures were gone. The doctor was perplexed. At the time, it didn't register in my mind that God had healed me so I didn't say anything. Later when I was at insurance company to file the medical claim. They asked me why did I take two sets of x-rays. I had to explain to the insurance agent what had happened. He replied jokingly "We need to send people to church for prayers."
This was the first time God healed me but not the last time. In my late 40s I had pinch nerve and had to crawl to the bathroom. A long story short, chiropractor not just one but three different doctors diagnosed me with x-ray results told me it will cost me $6,500 to fix my lower back problem. Fast forward, it didn't cost me a penny after 6 months of praying (I laid hands on my lower back and prayed for myself almost everyday asked God to heal me), I'm completely healed and run 3-4 times a week.
I know God heals some people not others. Why? You need to ask Him. I don't know either.
My friend's leg grew an inch right in front of her parents' eyes. She was born with one leg an inch shorter than the other. Her entire life, she wears orthopedic shoes. Her dad was a surgeon, mom was a nurse and they own a hospital. They are 4th generation of Buddhist. God had a plan to use this entire family but need to convert the parents first. They were invited to a Christian healing crusade and a long story short, she and her parents went up to the stage for prayer. The pastor told her parents "Don't close your eyes when I pray for your daughter. God is going to show perform miracle right before your eyes...." My friend's shorter leg grew one inch right in front of her parents eyes. Since then, at age 13, she no longer needs to wear orthopedic shoes. She finally could go shopping for shoes with her sisters and friends. Fast forward, the parents became Christian and converted part of hospital into church. My friend's brother later became a pastor. He was supposed to be a doctor to take over the family hospital business.
If I was not in that car accident at age 21, I would never explore outside the traditional church and would never have experienced healing but believe Jesus heals but not in the 21st century.
My advice, ask God and He will answer your question but hopefully not put you in a car accident.

I would rather point people to hope in heaven, rather than empty promises of healing. Many people don't get healed, it causes them so much grief. The scriptures i see, talk about being dead (Col 3), and looking at things that are in heaven not on earth. They say that we should look at things which are not seen because they are eternal, and not look at things that are seen because they are temporary. Your healing, however it came about, is only temporary, and your body is growing older by the day. Your cells are mutating and your body is dying. That's what happens to us all. Why look at that when its only temporary? Many people stumble in faith because people lead them to put faith in the wrong things. They dont prepare them for the reality of faith.

2 Corinthians 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

godsgoond · Mar 21, 2016

thatbrian said:
This is the leg lengthening trick and how it's done.

Were you treated at a hospital, or did you go straight to a healer with a broken neck?

After the auto accident, I went home and slept 20f+ hours, until my dad woke me. I think I had concussion. Then I went to a chiropractor and told the doctor my neck is very tense because I just got into a car accident. The doctor told me he needs to take x-rays before doing any work on me. The x-ray turned out with fractured C-3 and C-4 and they said they cannot touch me and cancelled all my earlier scheduled appointments. I called my sister who was and still a nurse at ICU told me not to move my neck. Through her hospital connections, she got a Stanford neurosurgeon to see me the following Monday.
Wednesday -car accident
Thursday -x-ray at chiropractor's office
Friday -prayer
Monday -Stanford neurosurgeon, took another x-ray.

My friend's leg is not lengthened as the picture you attached which I'm familiar. When I had lower back problem, I was told because my one leg is shorter than the other and if they are the same length, my lower problem will disappear. I went through that leg stretching prayer and my lower back pain didn't disappear. My friend's leg require periodontal shoes. She was born with one leg significant shorter than the other one. Since she was born, her parents noticed one leg is shorter so they consulted many doctor friends to see if it is possible to lengthen her leg surgically which at the time was not possible (30 years ago). Now days, it is possible.

godsgoond · Mar 21, 2016

Righttruth said:
Temporal healing and getting cured is not the end of the story. Cultivating the fruit leads to salvation.

Extraneous · Mar 21, 2016

godsgoond said:
The healing strengthen my faith. I realized all the miracles happened back in the Jesus time also are possible in this today. That's why Jesus said we will do greater thing than Him (John 14:12) through the power of Holy Spirit, teacher, helper and comforter.

2 Corinthians 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

chandraclaws · Mar 21, 2016

I accepted Christ as my savior at an AoG church in the '80's where they insisted that if you didn't speak in tongues you were not truly saved. Every Sunday, other new Christians and I would go to the altar to pray and be prayed for to receive the gift, as we were being instructed to "just start moving your mouth, it'll come." Every Sunday I would be approached by several members of the congregation afterwords wanting to know if I had spoken in tongues yet. After being constantly hounded about it I finally just said yes to get them to stop, even though I was pretty sure it was still just me moving my mouth and not God.

The atmosphere became more circus-like as time went on. People were being pushed down, convulsing, cackling, wailing, running around the room and scaring me half to death. There were ventriloquists with triple neck guitars (seriously), but before I left that church, I had become convinced that I had blasphemed the Holy Spirit by saying I had spoken in tongues when I wasn't sure. I was paralyzed by that fear for years. I no longer believe that, but it was very damaging, almost ending my walk with God. Now, I am involved in another church that is also AoG, but not called by that name. It is not at all pentecostal, or a circus. God is present in a real way here where He is genuinely worshipped both in spirit and IN TRUTH.

tturt · Mar 21, 2016

Sorry that was your earlier experience.

The manifestations of the gifts of The Holy Spirit are for today.

Know that there's different definitions but Yeshua said this about works "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." John 10:37-38

Tigger45 · Mar 21, 2016

ViaCrucis said:
At my old Foursquare church our pastor frequently would try and explain that "getting saved" was like being an empty cup filled with water (the Holy Spirit) but that "baptism of the Holy Spirit" was like more Spirit poured in and starting to over flow outward--and this always included a visual example of a glass being over filled with water.

-CryptoLutheran

Yep exactly. Ive heard that sermon too. I was picturing it as i was reading your post.

RDKirk · Mar 21, 2016

While a lot of what has been said is true, I'd define a Spirit-filled congregation not as one that evidences the gifts of the Spirit, but one that manifests the fruit of the Spirit.

When I was a teenager, I was a member of a dead congregation that did not exhibit the fruit of the Spirit.

jimmyjimmy · Mar 21, 2016

RDKirk said:
While a lot of what has been said is true, I'd define a Spirit-filled congregation not as one that evidences the gifts of the Spirit, but one that manifests the fruit of the Spirit.

When I was a teenager, I was a member of a dead congregation that did not exhibit the fruit of the Spirit.

I like that definition better.

Gwen-is-new! · Mar 21, 2016

This is a good read on the subject: http://www.gty.org/resources/sermon-series/219/charismatic-chaos

Optimax · Mar 21, 2016

Must one be born again.

Jesus said so.

Why does one have to be born again?

When Adam disobeyed God and ate of the forbidden fruit the decision to do so caused him to receive the nature of the one he chose to obey.

He chose to obey Satan instead of God, therefore he received the nature of satan(sin), which is the very seat and source of sin.

God had told Adam that he would die in the day he ate. He died spiritually which caused him to die physically 930 years later.

Because we all descended from Adam we all received that same seat and source of sin when conceived.

That seat and source of sin is in the spirit or man.

Jesus understood what was in man and its results.

John 2:24-25

24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man. KJV

Jesus’ sacrifice made it possible for man to be “born again”, that new birth being performed in the spirit of man causing him to be a new creature(creation) in Christ Jesus.

That seat and source of sin is replaced with a new spirit having the “nature” of God.
The Holy Spirit comes and dwells in the spirit of the man who receives Jesus and is born again.

That “new birth” was first received by the 11 apostles after Jesus was resurrected.

Here Jesus told them to receive the Holy Ghost, therefore they did.

John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
KJV

The above is the first recorded that I know of the manifestation of what Jesus said here;

John 14:16-17
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
KJV

When they received the Holy Ghost He was in them.

However, He also told them to wait for an event, the result being that that same Holy Ghost that is in them because they received the Holy Ghost.

That result would be that the same Holy Ghost was going to come upon them.

Acts 1:8
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
KJV

Not in them cause He was already in them, but upon them.

The purpose for coming upon them was for POWER to be a WITNESS of Jesus.

Once He came upon them He did not stay upon them 24/7 as he was in them.

However, whenever they witnessed the Holy Spirit would come upon them again and would continue to come upon them whenever they witnessed.

Many examples of the Spirit coming upon through the Book of Acts.
Peter preaching, Peter & John at the gate Beautiful, etc.

He was always in them as He is in us after we are born again.

Gwen-is-new! · Mar 21, 2016

Although I don't agree with all the teachings of the Pentecostal church - tongues as the ONE and only (required) sign of salvation, tongues as a prayer lang (vs being a sign to the unbeliever), baptism of the Holy Spirit (separate event subsequent to salvation), etc.. I prefer attending a denomination that falls under the Pentecostal umbrella, and I will explain me below I use the term spirit-filled church often, and I would describe most churches in America as being dead..

When I say spirit-filled church, I do not mean to discount He is indwelt in every believer and He is everywhere (omnipresent)! Definitely not.

Personally, I am just WAY to excited about what He has done for me to be quiet in worship. He saved me when I was 31-yrs old and in a pit of destruction - so I got saved from total misery here and now, and eternity. I KNOW where I would be without Him. Still after 15-yrs, I can't contain myself and need to sing loud, raise my hands, lots of "Hallelujah" and "Amens". I actually feel convicted if I don't show externally what I am feeling (and knowing) internally. Yep, Jesus Freak may come to mind! I totally understand others don't need to do this to display their gratitude and love for their Savior, and I do not judge.

In general, "spirit-filled" churches have long worship services and a ton of praying, and a big emphasis on the Holy Spirit, not just the fruits - but everything about who He is and what He does, and how we are powerless to live the Christian life without HIM. Sooooooooooo many of us are floundering around, trying to live the Christian life in our own strength

To me, it just says something about your heart if you can spend more than 1 hr at church on the Lord's Day. It says something about how much you love your brothers and sisters in Christ if you can lay your hand on their back, and pray out loud with and for them... spirit-filled churches praise Him for who He is, and make it blatantly obvious that He is Lord, and is worthy and we are not.

Here's a few other good reads:
http://www.christianbook.com/forgotten-god/francis-chan/9781434767950/pd/767950
http://www.radicalthebook.com/home.html

ViaCrucis · Mar 21, 2016

Gwen-is-new! said:
Although I don't agree with all the teachings of the Pentecostal church - tongues as the ONE and only (required) sign of salvation, tongues as a prayer lang (vs being a sign to the unbeliever), baptism of the Holy Spirit (separate event subsequent to salvation), etc.. I prefer attending a denomination that falls under the Pentecostal umbrella, and I will explain me below I use the term spirit-filled church often, and I would describe most churches in America as being dead..

When I say spirit-filled church, I do not mean to discount He is indwelt in every believer and He is everywhere (omnipresent)! Definitely not.

Personally, I am just WAY to excited about what He has done for me to be quiet in worship. He saved me when I was 31-yrs old and in a pit of destruction - so I got saved from total misery here and now, and eternity. I KNOW where I would be without Him. Still after 15-yrs, I can't contain myself and need to sing loud, raise my hands, lots of "Hallelujah" and "Amens". I actually feel convicted if I don't show externally what I am feeling (and knowing) internally. Yep, Jesus Freak may come to mind! I totally understand others don't need to do this to display their gratitude and love for their Savior, and I do not judge.

In general, "spirit-filled" churches have long worship services and a ton of praying, and a big emphasis on the Holy Spirit, not just the fruits - but everything about who He is and what He does, and how we are powerless to live the Christian life without HIM. Sooooooooooo many of us are floundering around, trying to live the Christian life in our own strength

To me, it just says something about your heart if you can spend more than 1 hr at church on the Lord's Day. It says something about how much you love your brothers and sisters in Christ if you can lay your hand on their back, and pray out loud with and for them... spirit-filled churches praise Him for who He is, and make it blatantly obviously that He is Lord, and is worthy and we are not.

Here's a few other good reads:
http://www.christianbook.com/forgotten-god/francis-chan/9781434767950/pd/767950
http://www.radicalthebook.com/home.html

If service length is an indicator of the Spirit's presence, then our Orthodox brothers and sisters have most the rest of us beat. When I was a Pentecostal I think the longest our service ever went was about two hours. An Orthodox Sunday morning, as I understand it, is the entire morning (and probably an hour or so of early afternoon). From what I've read in some cases Matins can begin from about 7am, and afterward the Divine Liturgy lasts until 11 or 12.

However I don't think how long we're gathered for church on Sunday morning is any sort of indicator of the Spirit's presence. The Spirit is present not because of the things we do, but because of what God has said He'll do. The Spirit is, objectively, present in the Word and Sacraments apart from anything we do, think, or feel. Because it doesn't depend on us, but God.

-CryptoLutheran

jimmyjimmy · Mar 21, 2016

Gwen-is-new! said:
I would describe most churches in America as being dead..

Wow!

jimmyjimmy · Mar 21, 2016

When scripture describes people coming into the presence of God there is awe, and speechlessness. There is an overwhelming understanding of one's sinfulness, and a desire to have some separation from His holiness, as in the case of Peter, when he understood who Christ was. "When Simon Peter saw this, he fell at Jesus’ knees and said, “Go away from me, Lord; I am a sinful man!” For he and all his companions were astonished at the catch of fish they had taken" (Luke 5:8-9)

I don't see any happy-clappy stuff happening when the God of the Bible reveals Himself. I see silence, and such a humility that one dare not speak. "And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!” (Isaiah 6:5)

I'm not against happy-clappy, as I think that there should be times of great joy in the knowledge of the salvation that He brings, but there is also much lament in scripture, which have not personally seen in my admittedly little experience in Charismatic churches; however, I have seen a better expression of joy and lament in confessional churches, which, apparently are "dead".

Tree of Life · Mar 21, 2016

thatbrian said:
What does it mean when someone says that he belongs to a, "Spirit-filled" church? Is he claiming that other churches or Christians are not "filled" with God's Spirit? Is it all about falling on the ground and "holy laughter"?

Don't all of God's elect have His Spirit indwelling?

"Spirit-filled" means Presbyterian, of course!

In all seriousness, a Spirit-filled church is one in which God's word is proclaimed, heard, and believed and God's Spirit is at work to produce repentance, faith, and the fruit of the Spirit in the lives of the people. Beyond this, I'm not sure what else could be meant. Some believe that "Spirit-filled" has to do with extraordinary manifestations of the Spirit or certain gifts of the Spirit being present, but Paul thoroughly shuts this down in 1 Corinthians 12-14. For Paul, the supreme evidence of the Spirit is repentance, faith, hope, and love.

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