666

Lost4words · Nov 24, 2023

Veni said:
Numbers (0-9) 10 symbols
Alphabet (A-Z) 26 symbols

Total 36 symbols

Add all the numbers from 1 to 36 you get 666.

The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

(Alphabet & number speak to men)

Nero...end of thread!

Douggg · Nov 24, 2023

Lost4words said:
Nero...end of thread!

The beast-king and the false prophet promote 666. Nero did not promote 666. Not Nero.

And the person must also be a Jew.

Thee beast-king becomes the beast-king after being killed and comes back to life.

One theory - at that time, he may assume the name Adonikam, which means "my risen lord". And promote the 666 as proof as being a part of his spiritual children.

Ezra 2:13 The children of Adonikam, six hundred sixty and six.

Lost4words · Nov 24, 2023

Those numbers make up the name of Nero...

Matt5 · Nov 24, 2023

Apparently, Nero accounts for both 666 and 616. No problem in taking a future mark.

What happens if the mark is really 665? Then, for sure, no problem in taking the mark.

Allah's name in Arabic with 2 swords looks a lot like 665. So I guess it's OK to take his name when forced to join Islam.

The Liturgist · Nov 24, 2023

Lost4words said:
Nero...end of thread!

Indeed, I myself think the evidence for it being Nero is pretty compelling, since he initiated the martyrdom of Christians.

Given that the Coptic Orthodox Church dates its calendar epoch from the Diocletian Persecutions (this is the Year of Martyrs 1740) I wonder if our friend @dzheremi might have an opinion on this number. Since the martyrdoms were originally initiated by Nero, and it does appear using gematria that St. John the Beloved Disciple was using 666 as a cipher for Nerone Kaisar, which is the Greek spelling of Nero Caesar.

By the way, there is a superb article on this issue here: Nero as the Antichrist

The Liturgist · Nov 24, 2023

Matt5 said:
Apparently, Nero accounts for both 666 and 616. No problem in taking a future mark.

What happens if the mark is really 665? Then, for sure, no problem in taking the mark.

Allah's name in Arabic with 2 swords looks a lot like 665. So I guess it's OK to take his name when forced to join Islam.

In Latin, Nero would compute to 616, while in Greek, 666. The interesting thing is that there is an ancient manuscript of Revelation where the number is given as 616, and Nero is the only person whose name would cover both cases.

It is also a fact that on his coins Nero declared himself as “Savior and Benefactor of the World.” This makes him a type of anti-Christ.

By the way, I do not subscribe to an exclusively preterist interpretation of this event, in that I think there might be a future evil ruler who might take on a name that would also compute to 666 who would launch another persecution. I am not a premillenial dispensationalist, rather, like most traditional Christians I am an amillenialist, but being amillenial does not mean we do not believe in the End Times and the reign of Antichrist being things that we must be concerned with.

In the Old Testament, there are many verses that have both a prophetic, typological, Christological interpretation, of the sort that the Catechetical School of Alexandria was noted for documenting, and which our Lord showed to the Disciples at the end of the Gospel According to Luke, and also a historical, literal meaning, that form of interpretation being associated with the rival School of Antioch (but the best theologians from the two schools, such as St. Athanasius of Alexandria and St. John Chrysostom, of Antioch, and the Cappadocians, used both hermeneutics).

The Liturgist · Nov 24, 2023

Matt5 said:
Apparently, Nero accounts for both 666 and 616. No problem in taking a future mark.

What happens if the mark is really 665? Then, for sure, no problem in taking the mark.

Allah's name in Arabic with 2 swords looks a lot like 665. So I guess it's OK to take his name when forced to join Islam.

The problem with Allah being the representation is twofold: firstly, Allah is a generic word for “God” in Arabic, related to the Syriac Aramaic “Alaha”, the West Syriac “Aloho” and the Hebrew “Elohim” and “El”, being derived from the Semitic triconsonantal root ALH.

Secondly, since the word Allah does refer to God generically, it is used by the persecuted Christians of the Middle East who speak Arabic. Arabic is the vernacular language of the Coptic Orthodox, the Maronite Catholics, most Chaldean Catholics, most Antiochian Orthodox, most Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholics, most members of the Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem who live in Israel or Palestine, and of the Church of Sinai (an autonomous part of that church which encompasses the monastery of St. Catharine), and also some members of the Assyrian Church of the East and the Ancient Church of the East. Also, nearly all Protestant Christians in the Middle East speak Arabic. The other persecuted Christians in the region either speak a dialect of Aramaic (including most of the Assyrians), or one of the two vernacular dialects of Armenian.

Thus, a great many Christian prayers are addressed to Allah, but they are not addressed to the Islamic deity. I think it is clear that the Islamic deity is not Allah but the devil impersonating God, just as the “angel” that squeezed Muhammed as if to crush him when revealing the first few bits of the Quran to him, according to Muhammed, identified himself as “Jibreel”, that is to say, St. Gabriel the Archangel. We are specifically warned by our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ that the devil will appear as an angel of light, so the idea of a demon impersonating St. Gabriel is entirely reasonable.

I feel compelled to reject an interpretation that says “Allah” because, again, this word is used by Arabic-speaking Christians in their prayer. Indeed a friend of mine is a Syriac Orthodox priest named Abdullahad Shara, whose first name “Abduallahad” means “Slave of God” (“Slave of Allah”).

So my view is that we must work to deny Muslims their attempt to monopolize this word, because it is simply another form of their oppression of Christians in the Middle East.

Douggg · Nov 24, 2023

Lost4words said:
Those numbers make up the name of Nero...

You are not getting it. The person himself and the false prophet will promote the number of his name. Nero did not promote his name as 666, that everyone should take that number, or his name, or his mark in their right hand or foreheads.

As an example (although not the person) the late José Luis Miranda promoted that his followers have "666" tattooed to themselves.

Lost4words · Nov 24, 2023

Douggg said:
You are not getting it. The person himself and the false prophet will promote the number of his name. Nero did not promote his name as 666, that everyone should take that number, or his name, or his mark in their right hand or foreheads.

As an example (although not the person) the late José Luis Miranda promoted that his followers have "666" tattooed to themselves.

I am getting the fact that that number represents Nero. Thats good enough for me.

dzheremi · Nov 24, 2023

The Liturgist said:
Indeed, I myself think the evidence for it being Nero is pretty compelling, since he initiated the martyrdom of Christians.

Given that the Coptic Orthodox Church dates its calendar epoch from the Diocletian Persecutions (this is the Year of Martyrs 1740) I wonder if our friend @dzheremi might have an opinion on this number. Since the martyrdoms were originally initiated by Nero, and it does appear using gematria that St. John the Beloved Disciple was using 666 as a cipher for Nerone Kaisar, which is the Greek spelling of Nero Caesar.

By the way, there is a superb article on this issue here: Nero as the Antichrist

I don't really have anything on this, other than to point out that this does not work in Arabic or Coptic, since they're both نيرون/Niron (5 letters, not 6).

The Liturgist · Nov 24, 2023

dzheremi said:
I don't really have anything on this, other than to point out that this does not work in Arabic or Coptic, since they're both نيرون/Niron (5 letters, not 6).

It’s strictly based on Hebrew numerology, which St. John the Beloved would have known. But I was thinking more from a theological perspective.

Also I would assume that you would concur that the idea that 666 refers to the word “Allah” is absurd, since Arabic speaking Christians use that word to refer to our true God, who became incarnate by the Virgin Mary as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (who is himself referred to as Masih, I might be spelling the word for Messiah in Arabic wrong, but frequently I find Coptic and Syria Christians with names such as Abd-Allah and Abd-al-Masih meaning Servant Of God and Servant Of Christ, whereas Muslims tend to have names that refer to various Islamic figures.

Douggg · Nov 24, 2023

Lost4words said:
I am getting the fact that that number represents Nero. Thats good enough for me.

The beast king is end times, not historic. And that person must promote the 666 number of his name, his name, and the mark of his name - to buy and sell - in order to be him. Nero did not do that.

Coming up with someone's name numerically equating to 666 alone does not identify that person as the beast king of Revelation 13.

trophy33 · Nov 24, 2023

Douggg said:
The beast king is end times, not historic. And that person must promote the 666 number of his name, his name, and the mark of his name - to buy and sell - in order to be him. Nero did not do that.

Coming up with someone's name numerically equating to 666 alone does not identify that person as the beast king of Revelation 13.

The secular times ended in the first century. Since that time, the kingdom of God grows in the world, as Daniel saw in his dream.

You cannot apply Revelation to our future, because the Revelation itself said to the first readers that, the things it is about, will happen soon:

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1

Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy...because the time is near.
Rev 1:3

"Look, he is coming with the clouds,’ and ‘every eye will see him, even those who pierced him’; and all peoples on earth ‘will mourn because of him.’ So shall it be! Amen.”
Rev 1:7

"God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6

"Behold, I am coming quickly:"
Rev 22:7

"Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is near. "
Rev 22:10

"And, behold, I come quickly;"
Rev 22:12

The Liturgist · Nov 24, 2023

Douggg said:
The beast king is end times, not historic. And that person must promote the 666 number of his name, his name, and the mark of his name - to buy and sell - in order to be him. Nero did not do that.

Coming up with someone's name numerically equating to 666 alone does not identify that person as the beast king of Revelation 13.

My position is that it is not inherently either/or, in that St. John, if he was referring to Nero, and the evidence is very strong that this was the case, was using Nero as a type of the future Antichrist, which Nero was. So thus I believe it should be interpreted both historically, as @Lost4words has shown us, given the overwhelming evidence that Hebrew numbers were being used to refer to Nero, who styled himself like the antichrist - he had it printed on his coins that he was “Savior and Benefactor of the World”, which we know the Antichrist will identify himself as during the initial period when all will be impressed by his charismatic personality. And Nero was extremely popular at the start of his reign, before he burned down Rome allegedly, and not allegeldly, but as a matter of fact, blamed it on the Christians, who his successors, the Flavian Dynasty (Nero was the last Emperor descended from Octavius, Caesar Augustus, the nephew of Gaius Julius Caesar, the group referred to as the Julian Dynasty) would continue to exploit as useful scapegoats in order to detract attention from their own failings, until Trajan came to power and substantially reduced the scale of the persecutions, and Christianity was almost tolerated from the time of his reign until shortly after the death of Marcus Aurelius, when everything started to fall apart in the Roman Empire and the Christians were again blamed. Because until St. Constantine came to power, everyone assumed that the woes of the Empire were due to the ever-expanding Christian “superstition” and the loss of pagan “Piety” and for the incompetent Emperors of the Third Century, they could win public approval at times by putting to death Christians in the arenas rather than actually dealing with the systemic problems that were causing the Empire to collapse (and which eventually would lead to its collapse in the West, although the Christianized Eastern Roman Empire would last as a bastion of Orthodox Christianity until, weakened by the Fourth Crusade of the 13th century when the Venetians diverted their crusaders to Constantinople (they were supposed to try and liberate Jerusalem which the Muslims had retaken), and denied military assistance by the Catholic powers after the laity refused to allow the Council of Florence to be adopted as an ecumenical council in the Orthodox Church, the Empire was overrun by the Turks, who then savagely oppressed the Christians and never stopped - to this day, the few Christians left in Turkey have an increasingly hard time of it under Erdogan, and Turkey continues to deny the genocide they committed against Armenian, Syriac, Assyrian and Pontic Greek Christians from 1915 through 1921, and also the pogrom against the remaining Greeks that happened in the 1950s.

So what we see in this is that Nero was the prototype of a series of Beast Kings who will persecute the Christians; his successors were savage killers like Diocletian, Tamerlane, Sultan Ahmet, Mustafa Kamal Ataturk, and more recently, the Ayatollahs of Iran, and Caliph Al-Baghdadi of ISIS, and their ilk.

Timtofly · Nov 24, 2023

Lost4words said:
Nero...end of thread!

The name of the man is Adam. Because Adam means mankind. The number belongs to all of humanity and is an expiration stamp like you place on goods that are no longer acceptable past a certain date. The sounding of the 7th Trumpet is the end of time for mankind to be redeemed.

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

God places this time stamp on all those humans on earth as they are blotted out of the Lamb's book of Life. The mark means their time of redemption has expired. This is not about one single human. This is about all mankind after a certain point in time, the sounding of the 7th Trumpet.

Douggg · Nov 24, 2023

The Liturgist said:
My position is that it is not inherently either/or, in that St. John, if he was referring to Nero, and the evidence is very strong that this was the case, was using Nero as a type of the future Antichrist, which Nero was. So thus I believe it should be interpreted both historically, as @Lost4words has shown us, given the overwhelming evidence that Hebrew numbers were being used to refer to Nero, who styled himself like the antichrist - he had it printed on his coins that he was “Savior and Benefactor of the World”, which we know the Antichrist will identify himself as during the initial period when all will be impressed by his charismatic personality. And Nero was extremely popular at the start of his reign, before he burned down Rome allegedly, and not allegeldly, but as a matter of fact, blamed it on the Christians, who his successors, the Flavian Dynasty (Nero was the last Emperor descended from Octavius, Caesar Augustus, the nephew of Gaius Julius Caesar, the group referred to as the Julian Dynasty) would continue to exploit as useful scapegoats in order to detract attention from their own failings, until Trajan came to power and substantially reduced the scale of the persecutions, and Christianity was almost tolerated from the time of his reign until shortly after the death of Marcus Aurelius, when everything started to fall apart in the Roman Empire and the Christians were again blamed. Because until St. Constantine came to power, everyone assumed that the woes of the Empire were due to the ever-expanding Christian “superstition” and the loss of pagan “Piety” and for the incompetent Emperors of the Third Century, they could win public approval at times by putting to death Christians in the arenas rather than actually dealing with the systemic problems that were causing the Empire to collapse (and which eventually would lead to its collapse in the West, although the Christianized Eastern Roman Empire would last as a bastion of Orthodox Christianity until, weakened by the Fourth Crusade of the 13th century when the Venetians diverted their crusaders to Constantinople (they were supposed to try and liberate Jerusalem which the Muslims had retaken), and denied military assistance by the Catholic powers after the laity refused to allow the Council of Florence to be adopted as an ecumenical council in the Orthodox Church, the Empire was overrun by the Turks, who then savagely oppressed the Christians and never stopped - to this day, the few Christians left in Turkey have an increasingly hard time of it under Erdogan, and Turkey continues to deny the genocide they committed against Armenian, Syriac, Assyrian and Pontic Greek Christians from 1915 through 1921, and also the pogrom against the remaining Greeks that happened in the 1950s.

So what we see in this is that Nero was the prototype of a series of Beast Kings who will persecute the Christians; his successors were savage killers like Diocletian, Tamerlane, Sultan Ahmet, Mustafa Kamal Ataturk, and more recently, the Ayatollahs of Iran, and Caliph Al-Baghdadi of ISIS, and their ilk.

Revelation 17:10-11, Nero was king six of the Julio-Claudian family of kings.

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero

7. End times little horn person, yet to come.
8. the beast-king, the little horn person after he is killed and comes back to life.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The Liturgist · Nov 24, 2023

Douggg said:
Revelation 17:10-11, Nero was king six of the Julio-Claudian family of kings.

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero

7. End times little horn person, yet to come.
8. the beast-king, the little horn person after he is killed and comes back to life.

-------------------------------------------------------------

View attachment 339691

Firstly, no member of the Julio-Claudian dynasty was a King, not one. Indeed, Julius Caesar was Imperator only in the historic sense of “Conqueror,” a title held by many successful Roman generals before him. The first real Roman Emperor who actually held the authority we associate with the Emperors, with whom the Republic had definitely ended, was Octavian, or Caesar Augustus as he liked to call himself. Otherwise your list is correct, but all educated people know who the members of the Julio-Claudian dynasty are, in part because they were so eccentric and extreme, you basically have the original Caesar, his scheming great nephew and adopted son Augustus, who did rebuild Rome replacing bricks with marble, then Tiberius, who was a decadent, tyrannical pervert, then Caligula, who was initially good, but then became diabolical and engaged in shocking sadistic behavior, then Claudius, who people had written off as dim witted, but who was really the most responsible of these emperors, and who also conquered Britain, and finally Nero, who was much loved before the fire and his persecution of Christians, who built himself a fabulous palace filled with technological marvels, the Domus Aurae, with help from the polytechnic of Alexandria.

Secondly, regarding your diagram, I can’t accept that because what you are saying is that the Antichrist must come while the EU and Israel exist as political entities, while Christ our True God said that no man can know the time these things will happen. There have been numerous supposed anti-Christs who did not bring about the end of the world, who were a type of the anti-Christ nonetheless.

Also, the beast is clearly the Anti-Christ, one and the same, with Nero having been a type of him. St. John makes it clear that we can decode 666, and if we decode it, we get the Greek spelling of Nero, and if we decode 616, which appears in a variant manuscript, we get the Latin spelling. And this corresponds with what St. John wrote elsewhere, that Antichrist was already in the world. Thus, I believe there will be a future anti-Christ, but we can’t say when, and thus it is pointless trying to associate such an anti-Christ with any existing governments, since they might all have vanished by then, just as no secular government from the time of Christ (except, remotely possibly, the Imperial polity (Kokutai) of Japan) is still extant, but this anti-Christ will be the latest and ultimate in a series that began with Nero and included the likes of Diocletian, Muhammed, Tamerlane, Genghis Khan, Al-Hakim, Sultan Ahmet, perhaps the tyrant Oliver Cromwell, Napoleon most likely, and more recently, the Turkish rulers of the last 150 years, and, Lenin, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Hoxha, and Caliph Al-Baghdadi, who all represent types of anti-Christ, but are not the final, definitive anti-Christ.

The number 666 clearly refers to Nero, however, and so we can say that at a minimum the anti-Christ will have the grandiose attributes of Nero, and will wind up persecuting Christians even if he initially seems to be our ally.

trophy33 · Nov 24, 2023

The Liturgist said:
I can’t accept that because what you are saying is that the Antichrist must come while the EU and Israel exist as political entities, while Christ our True God said that no man can know the time these things will happen. There have been numerous supposed anti-Christs who did not bring about the end of the world, who were a type of the anti-Christ nonetheless.

Also, the beast is clearly the Anti-Christ, one and the same, with Nero having been a type of him. St. John makes it clear that we can decode 666, and if we decode it, we get the Greek spelling of Nero, and if we decode 616, which appears in a variant manuscript, we get the Latin spelling. And this corresponds with what St. John wrote elsewhere, that Antichrist was already in the world. Thus, I believe there will be a future anti-Christ, but we can’t say when, and thus it is pointless trying to associate such an anti-Christ with any existing governments, since they might all have vanished by then, just as no secular government from the time of Christ (except, remotely possibly, the Imperial polity (Kokutai) of Japan) is still extant, but this anti-Christ will be the latest and ultimate in a series that began with Nero and included the likes of Diocletian, Muhammed, Tamerlane, Genghis Khan, Al-Hakim, Sultan Ahmet, perhaps the tyrant Oliver Cromwell, Napoleon most likely, and more recently, the Turkish rulers of the last 150 years, and, Lenin, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Hoxha, and Caliph Al-Baghdadi, who all represent types of anti-Christ, but are not the final, definitive anti-Christ.

The number 666 clearly refers to Nero, however, and so we can say that at a minimum the anti-Christ will have the grandiose attributes of Nero, and will wind up persecuting Christians even if he initially seems to be our ally.

I agree with Nero, but how did you make the leap to "Thus, I believe there will be a future anti-Christ... the final, definitive anti-Christ"?

If the New Testament is about Nero, what is the source for this another one?

The Liturgist · Nov 24, 2023

myst33 said:
I agree with Nero, but how did you make the leap to "Thus, I believe there will be a future anti-Christ... the final, definitive anti-Christ"?

If the New Testament is about Nero, what is the source for this another one?

It is common for scripture to have multiple meanings - it can refer to Nero and then use Nero as a type for the future anti-Christ. We see this so often in Scripture, for example, the priest-king Melchizedek was a type of Christ, Jerusalem is a type of Heaven, Babylon represents the world, but these also represent themselves. This is particularly so in the case of prophecy.

Lost4words · Nov 24, 2023

Douggg said:
The beast king is end times, not historic. And that person must promote the 666 number of his name, his name, and the mark of his name - to buy and sell - in order to be him. Nero did not do that.

Coming up with someone's name numerically equating to 666 alone does not identify that person as the beast king of Revelation 13.

Revelation was written earlier than most think! St John was writing about Nero, secretly, as with many things in those times, one had to write with hidden meanings.

666

Jesus I Trust In You

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Jesus I Trust In You

Well-Known Member

Traditional Liturgical Christian

Traditional Liturgical Christian

Traditional Liturgical Christian

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Jesus I Trust In You

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

Traditional Liturgical Christian

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Well-Known Member

Traditional Liturgical Christian

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Traditional Liturgical Christian

Well-Known Member

Traditional Liturgical Christian

Jesus I Trust In You

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency