Creationist groups commiting false witness?

[Arikay]

Hello,

Recent threads have had me thinking. Is it ok for creationist groups to commit false witness?

In this thread: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/42578-1.html I talked about all the inaccuracies in the DrDino article here: (http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=2)

Also in the same thread it was shown how the AIG article
(http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/docs/cenv22n1_dating_failure.asp)
Is using a miss use of a radiometric dating method to show that its false.

Both these creationist groups seem to support using false evidence to support their claims.

Do you think its OK for a creationist groups to use false evidence to support their claims?
Do you think it is OK to use false claims to support christianity?
Do you think this is the christian thing to do?

-Ari

 

[SBfaithful]

If they did it on purpose to decieve, then sure it is wrong.

One should not have to use false claims to support christianity. Listen to the story, have an open heart, and either you believe or you don't.

Of course falsifications are not the Christian thing to do.

 

[seebs]

Well, *I* think it's wrong. I have gotten a fair number of flames for arguing with other Christians when I felt they were making poor arguments, because I hate to see poor arguments used.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Poor and false arguments just make your side look weak. If someone says, "The Earth is round because Bush wants to cut taxes," who wouldn't feel a strong urge to correct the error. The same should apply to lesser errors.

 

[Arikay]

Um, sorta thread bump for possible more answers.

 

[LewisWildermuth]

Being a former creationist, it shook the core of my belief when I learned how wrong my creationist beliefs were. It was not the fact that the Earth was more than a few thousand years old or the fact that we are descended from simians that bothered me as much as the fact that the people I had trusted (AiG, ICR and many others) had lied to me about almost everything, from bible interpretation to every branch of science, history, you name it...

So no I do not think it is right to use false claims, even in the name of saving souls.

The more I look into the matter the more convinced I am that creationism and its kin need to be purged from Christianity before they destroy it.

 

[ikester7579]

16th April 2003 at 10:05 PM Arikay said this in Post #1

Hello,

Recent threads have had me thinking. Is it ok for creationist groups to commit false witness?

In this thread: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/42578-1.html I talked about all the inaccuracies in the DrDino article here: (http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=2)

Also in the same thread it was shown how the AIG article
(http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/docs/cenv22n1_dating_failure.asp)
Is using a miss use of a radiometric dating method to show that its false.

Both these creationist groups seem to support using false evidence to support their claims.

Do you think its OK for a creationist groups to use false evidence to support their claims?
Do you think it is OK to use false claims to support christianity?
Do you think this is the christian thing to do?

-Ari

 
I'm glad to see all are in agreement here. No argueing so far.

 

[lucaspa]

Yesterday at 05:16 AM ikester7579 said this in Post #7

 
I'm glad to see all are in agreement here. No argueing so far.

But that leaves you the problem, Ikester, that creationists do use false witness.  On a personal level, Ikester, it leaves you in the postion that you used false witness when you claimed that human and dino footprints were together and that the Parting of the Red Sea had been found. Both of those claims were based on false witness evidence.

So, is there any difference in terms of the 9th Commandment whether you make the false witness yourself or promote false witness by others?

 

[seebs]

I think there's a big difference; it's not false witness if you honestly believe it, although it may be carelessness or ignorance.

 

[Megalonyx]

I agree.  It's not false witness if you honestly believe what you are saying to be true.  But this leads to another point.  In a time when information can be had with the push of a button, we all need to take the time to validate our sources and justify our positions.  Certain "scientific" discoveries or "proofs" of God's existence seem remarkable when we first hear about them, but in the end prove to be nothing more than sensationalism.  Let's check our sources before we take their word... or at least admit that we haven't when we use them.

 

[Arikay]

IC, so false witness is when You know you are wrong, but choose to tell people anyway.

But, what if these creationists know they are wrong? That would be false witness?

However, it would still be lieing.

Its sad though that people who claim to be backing up the christian religion need to use false evidence to back it up. Thats not the christianity that I know.

 

[seebs]

I'm not sure it's false witness to say false things unless they're *about* someone. But yeah, it's certainly very disturbing.

 

[Apollo Rhetor]

I am amazed. I am a creationist because I am convinced it is truth from the arguments I have read on both sides. You cannot logically hold evolution in one hand and Christianity in the other - if evolution were true I would lose my faith. But more on that later.

Those links posted at the start of this thread, they didn't seem to work. If you were converted from a creationist to an evolutionist, what changed your mind? I am amazed so many of you are convinced.

 

[Apollo Rhetor]

Or are most of you not Christians?

 

[Arikay]

Ill check the links and see if I can get them to work.

Have you looked at theistic evolution?
Do you believe the heliocentric model (earth revolving around the sun) invalidates christianity? (a couple hundred years ago, many said that accepting the earth revolving around the sun would invalidate christianity.)

do you believe its ok for creationist groups to lie to support their message and to support christianity?

Today at 10:37 PM tyreth said this in Post #13

I am amazed. I am a creationist because I am convinced it is truth from the arguments I have read on both sides. You cannot logically hold evolution in one hand and Christianity in the other - if evolution were true I would lose my faith. But more on that later.

Those links posted at the start of this thread, they didn't seem to work. If you were converted from a creationist to an evolutionist, what changed your mind? I am amazed so many of you are convinced.

 

[seebs]

Today at 12:37 AM tyreth said this in Post #13

I am amazed. I am a creationist because I am convinced it is truth from the arguments I have read on both sides. You cannot logically hold evolution in one hand and Christianity in the other - if evolution were true I would lose my faith. But more on that later.

Those links posted at the start of this thread, they didn't seem to work. If you were converted from a creationist to an evolutionist, what changed your mind? I am amazed so many of you are convinced.

Evolution is true, and the only reason that could lead to a loss of faith would be if you'd been lied to about God.

 

[Apollo Rhetor]

Today at 05:08 PM Arikay said this in Post #15

Ill check the links and see if I can get them to work.

Have you looked at theistic evolution?
Do you believe the heliocentric model (earth revolving around the sun) invalidates christianity? (a couple hundred years ago, many said that accepting the earth revolving around the sun would invalidate christianity.)

do you believe its ok for creationist groups to lie to support their message and to support christianity?

I have looked at theistic evolution, I do not believe the heliocentric model and cannot see how it would possibly contradict Christianity.

I do not believe it is ok for creationist groups to lie to support their message - and I have seen them correct themselves many times, but I'm sure they make mistakes.

I am 100% certain that I would lose faith if evolution turned out true - it invalidates the Bible in so many intricate ways. I'll explain this later if you like.

 

[seebs]

Evolution doesn't invalidate the Bible - it tells us what we've known for four thousand years, which is that God speaks to us in myth, not science. Don't you realize how silly this sounds? Augustine wrote about creation, ignorant of any science, but he knew for sure that the creation story wasn't literal history - it's obvious from the story.

 

[Arikay]

I checked the links and they seem to be fine.

Well, if you dont believe that the earth revolves around the sun, then I think your faith is safe. As there is a lot of evidence that the earth does revolve around the sun, and if you dont accept that, then I doubt you will ever accept evolution.
The heliocentric model supposably would contradict christianity as the bible says the earth was immovable, etc.

However, so far they havent fixed some glaring ones. One of the links talks about how AIG incorrectly uses K/Ar dating and then said that that shows K/Ar dating is false, when in reality they were the ones who made the mistake.
However, they still have this article up.

Today at 11:11 PM tyreth said this in Post #17



I have looked at theistic evolution, I do not believe the heliocentric model and cannot see how it would possibly contradict Christianity.

I do not believe it is ok for creationist groups to lie to support their message - and I have seen them correct themselves many times, but I'm sure they make mistakes.

I am 100% certain that I would lose faith if evolution turned out true - it invalidates the Bible in so many intricate ways. I'll explain this later if you like.

 

[Apollo Rhetor]

Today at 05:15 PM seebs said this in Post #18

Evolution doesn't invalidate the Bible - it tells us what we've known for four thousand years, which is that God speaks to us in myth, not science. Don't you realize how silly this sounds? Augustine wrote about creation, ignorant of any science, but he knew for sure that the creation story wasn't literal history - it's obvious from the story.

Augustine said a few things I dodn't agree with, and many I do.

Do I realise how silly what sounds?

How can you say evolution doesn't invalidate the Bible when you haven't heard my arguments?